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All that is needed for the new Rallon is for Fox to release the USD fork so the same front wheel can be used in enduro and DH mode.
Small nerd correction: what Orbea is doing is really smart because they can make the same (or more) number of SKUs but reduce their CAPEX (mold investments & tooling) significantly. Hypothetically, they can make 10 DH models and 10 Enduro models (lots of SKUs) but from a "single" mold investment and different metal links (reduced CAPEX). This is very challenging for Orbea because they have to essentially plan 2 different bikes in the same mold set up. More has to be figured out (compared to making separate DH and separate Enduro bikes) before they go to tooling.
We do a similar thing in the ski boot world where I can make lots of different SKUs (World Cup race boots, race-inspired boots, and freeride boots) all from one "single" (yet very modular & Lego-like) mold set up/investment.
TL/DR - they can have the same (or more) number of SKUs (if they want) but with less mold investment and CAPEX.
I was hoping the new Demo/Enduro would also be similar with one front triangle and a link swap would convert from the DH bike to the enduro, but the new proto mule has killed that hope with the short seat tub setup.
I am not a super fast racer, but i prefer high AR.
Comming from a supreme V4 i always enjoy the stability under braking.
But then again the tracks here in germany are not overly steep, if you ride more in the alps that might be a different thing
TBH i am a bit surprised about all the positiv feedback for the Orbea bike
To me the bike is just boring and has nothing really going for it.
I mean i looks nice, but it's just a very normal split pivot design,
No high pivot (wouldn't buy), no fancy kinematics and all those annoying enduro standards.
Adding weight in a clan way is nice, but i wonder if you couldn't just make an alluminum frame in the first place
The cost of lab and ride testing and getting all the different frames externally tested and certified would be significant. I would also be concerned about identical frames with different flex characteristics getting mixed up in the factory, Orbea offer custom paint and there is a lot of opportunity for mix ups in handling. The CAPEX savings are there, but the cost of complexity associated with the multiple SKUs is significant.
Not saying it's not possible, but if you want to offer different flex characteristics for a single frame design, it would be maybe easier to do what Mondraker and Atherton etc. are doing and have bolt on braces. They already have a swappable shock mount.
I find the new Orbea quite interesting. I also had a R5 and still have a R6 – both with a relatively high pivot point and corresponding anti-squat.
I'm surprised that the bike has such a low pivot point and thus such a low AS. Especially if I wanted to build an all-rounder, I wouldn't do it that way. What do the suspension experts here think?
The new Orbea lacking any seat stay bridge + trunnion mount shock seems to have the potential to eat shocks. Pretty much all twisting loads on the seatstays are transmitted to the shock.
Nah, the shock is only taking the forces from the rocker here so this is a good use of trunning. This design removed the shock "eating" yoke from the former Rallon design.
Airdrop dropped new batch of their bikes in limited-edition Stealthy look. I expected it to pop up here or on PB, but nothing so far. They probably (and hopefully) will sell them anyways.
Thanks lord the Slacker is still not available in MX, I’d have a tough conversation with my wife.
Edit: one can’t upload pics from mobile here, am I right?
There are two interfaces moving from the seat stay to the shock, yet all twisting loads just bypass those and go to the shock?
In a less sarcastic note, we've seen lots of DH bikes removing seat stay bridges and just relying on the the rocker pivot and shock for stability and it's perfectly fine. With good bearing design and rocker design you don't need a seat stay bridge to mitigate damage to the shock, it's purely for stiffness characteristics.
so this got me intrigued..... i pulled up the manual for the new orbea DH bike, while it's only in spanish, i did find a few things:
i also find it interesting that it only mentions the new saint derailler, and instead specs XTR brakes, and raceface cranks instead of saint for those.
maybe they pull a grx and make it not a complete group?
User name checks out.
...and also it's a great bunch of thoughts. I hadn't played it out as far as you did but I definitely had the thought that it seems potentially pretty smart from a cashflow perspective.
I may not be understanding their whole process correctly, but less money tied up in mold and production investments and moving those expenses - even if its the same costs - to occur after the bikes are sold (via paying people for their labor and brains to make sure parts go where they need to go) makes a lot of sense.
The fact that Orbea is a family-owned co-op is super awesome, too. I'd buy a bike from them if the shop around here that carries their stuff wasn't such a shitty company. Until I absolutely don't need a shop's service intervention (when I've acquired all the tools, space, and skills I'd need - which is potentially never) I won't buy anything that would necessitate me giving that shitty shop any tangible amount of my money.
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
^yet to feel that way about a bike shop but been there 😂
While I think an increasingly modular Rallon seems unlikely. I do think it is an interesting to idea to have an updated frame that plays well with the old one to give racers and tinkerers more options. Fire off an extra round of the old molds (or potentially repackage your unsold product) as extra warranty/crash replacement stock and sell it to the people who want to get really nerdy. Or just might prefer the old bike they are used to to one with very small differences for gains that are often mostly opinion to a certain degree.
Certainly an interesting idea in a world where a lot of bike companies are struggling to offer people a tangible reason to buy a new bike. But if you always wished your bike had a longer chainstay and you didn’t have to buy an entire package because of a few diffirent standards to get it that might be the right formula for some brands going forward. Make minor changes year to year that really benefit long term ownership of a certain model. If this rallon is a success then it could very well be in Orbea’s interest to capitalize on that success by making sure the next rallon plays nicely with this one. And I think the further they can take that while not getting silly could very well be worth extra skus to make their product are more worthwhile long term buy to their customers. Especially if they find the modularity and tinkering aspects is what drew them to the new rallon in the first place.
i don't think there were ever cassettes marketed or sold specifically for either group.
Horst Link/ Four Bar.
That's a big improvement but from a marketing standpoint...
I think it's Sixfinity, there's a lower link that rotates too so not a pivot on the front triangle.
If Yeti did a run of regular bikes 150 to 170mm travel with that suspension I'd definitely be interested.
that's still their sixfinity setup.
Looks like the same 6bar design as the SB160e
Aston-A-Tron history and review
It's not available but you can definitely put a 29er front wheel on it if you really want. Then again, if you want a mixed wheel alloy dh bike with similar aesthetics, go Raaw.
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
The best setup was an XT 10spd with the One Up 7spd adapter. Same range as a road cassette with more sensible gear jumps for DH.
As I understand it, a majority of us probably won't necessarily feel a difference, but it gives more ability to get the desired numbers for the designers..
I was an engineer on Felt's 6-bar link bikes and found it to be an immense PITA to work with. I don't feel it offers any advantages over other multilinks, different but not better. The extra parts inevitably weigh more, flex more, cost more, and present more opportunities for failure. Though it is possible to make good bikes with a 6-bar link, the experience motivated me to develop the most minimal multilink suspension I could devise.
RAAW is sufficiently more expensive and for me personally it has different aesthetic. Raaw looks more angular and almost kinda boring to me, while Slacker is more like a modern Kona from the times I dreamed about being in a NWD movie :D
Props to both brands though!
I heard there was supposed to be a big shimano announcement today, anyone know when it got pushed to?
I assume the recent price hike and general market conditions contributed but could be other reasons.
Apologies if this has been covered recently, I did a quick search and didn't see anything but haven't been keeping up on this thread recently.