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“NO DISCUSSIONS IN THE TECH RUMOR THREAD.” Cmon man
Atherton may well be doing this soon
We really, really need to bring the hammer down on this IP theft. Not only are they stealing ideas and patents from people who have spent good r&d money on developing their ideas, they haven't done the r&d, so there's far less understanding of the decisions that led to the original design. It's wholly unsafe and not to be mistaken for simply reverse engineering existing components. I don't understand why they can't just make new stuff???
You answered your own question - good products take work and you make more money by not having to invest in developing a product when you can copy/paste the existing best in class and not care about sanctity/safety/reputation. Agreed it needs some int'l controls, or at least an industry-wide pact to never use any of that stuff for OEM or team sponsorships
It's a matter of time when the good ol FAFO will catch up to them. So far it has been ethical issue but soon enough they will infringe a patent making it a legal issue. They might not care about that stuff in the country of origin but with them partnering with western companies, that is not going to sit well. I see they even copied the bearing arrangement of Outlier pedals 1:1 sigh..
Reminds me of the guys in very geometrically square plaid shirts on day 1 of SEMA taking pictures next to the hot new wheels. By day 7 some of the small Asian vendors in the back had new wheels that looked very "inspired".
Bottom line, I don't think any of that Lewis stuff is actually IP theft, sure it looks like other brands but I doubt anyone has a design patent on the looks. Design patents are so narrow, just an extra hole of fillet can void them.
Richie rolling up to Pietra with the Fox inverted.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DJXQFvGKHZJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Too late for that, they are already on the Intense Factory Racing team.
Lol I cant wait for the comments of wealthy 200lb beginners say the USD Fox is not stiff enough for their riding when there is a 200lb pro racer taking golds on the fork.
part of the problem is that far too many people have the mindset "it only costs x to make why is it being sold for 3x?" without understanding that products don't just manifest themselves out of the ether ready for consumer sale. this isn't limited to the bike industry, either.
What is attached to the brake caliper in the 4th shot? Looks like it has an LED on it... some sort of sensor?
Not that I am for people outright cloning other companies' products, I have experienced this professionally myself and it is infuriating, but there is zero IP theft happening with Lewis copying Trickstuff's brakes. Design patents are a type of IP that protects the aesthetics of a product, keeping me too products from existing, but they are super rare and very difficult to get granted. Utility patents which are the IP that one would file for to protect a function or feature, like leverage adjustment or bite point adjustment cover nothing related to how something looks. Lewis copying Trickstuff's brakes does not, without any doubt, constitute as IP theft. Trickstuff does not hold a single design patent, they also hold zero utility patents on how their brakes work as almost all of their design features are well within public domain at this point, piston sizes, compression ratios, reach adjustment etc...
I wouldn't own any of their products just because I wouldn't want to be their R&D team testing the products they copy, and I am morally against me too products capitalizing off of smaller boutique manufactures design aesthetic. But I did want to clarify that Lewis is not in violation of any patent, they didn't steal any IP.
100%
https://ridefox.com/products/live-valve-neo-kit
was going to call them out but thought they wised up this year, are they still on Lewis?? EXT was such a sweet move but not the knockoffs Jeff please
I believe they're on Hayes for 2025
Apologies for the double post. I recall a story once told by an American craft brewer (who I don't recall...): "If a bottle of your beer costs you 25c to make, why am I paying $5 for it?" "Because making the first bottle cost me $1 million".
They were still on Lewis Brakes 2 weeks ago..
Right on cue, here's our 1st gallery from the China Cycle 2025 show which just wrapped up after 4 intensive days in Shanghai: https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/members/china-cycle-2025-shanghai. Lots of clones of course but lots of really interesting work being done too!
Okay I think this is just me misunderstanding something I saw on instagram.
link‘s not working.
Fixed now, had a "." added to the end of the URL...
And to keep the news rolling in, here's part 2 of our China Cycle 2025 coverage: https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/members/china-cycle-2025-shanghai-part-2.
Copying the 5Dev cranks tells you everything you need to know about a company. All they care about is looks. The originals are a horrible engineering design.
They should have copied Came Creek EEwings. But that would require some skilled welders and not just feeding a CNC machine.
Innovation would be using ultra high strength steel from the automotive industry and make a tubular crank that uses the same axles as RF, Cannondale , FSA and all the others that use that same axle.
If it helps, there's a bunch of 5dev knockoff cranks on aliexpress and various reviews around the internet has revealed they are absolutely death traps. I wonder if Lewis is doing anything different or just picking up a company to run em'. If the 5dev ones are already kinda bad, wait til the knockoff hits trails in some capacity.
Not going to lie, I got Lewis brakes and ran them all last season and they've been amazing. More consistent and better modulation than my Shimano brakes and more than enough power to stop my 270lb self on Squamish slabs and dh tracks throughout Alberta and BC. No leaks. No sticky pistons. Easy to bleed.
I didn't go out of my way to order them. My LBS brought a set in to check them out and I got a great deal on them to be the guinea pig and report back. You may not like them for ethical reasons, but you absolutely can't criticize them for their performance and reliability.
***edit*** - I can only speak about my experience with the brakes. I wouldn't get the 5dev cranks, let alone the Lewis or any other knockoff version.
Man, that Winice enduro bike looks awesome!
How long till China does to the MTB market what they are about (doing) to do to the car market?
they already make the frames, they’ve just been lacking decent design.
Maybe we’ll be able to afford bikes again?
Starunion MGM Looks the good too
I'm curious about the tubular crank idea, not sure I understand exactly what you mean though (tubular crank arm?). Mind adding a little detail to that picture for me?
Think Profile Racing tubular chromoly cranks