Definitely no B-screw, it‘s Transmission after all. Looks nice!
It is mechanical Transmission. I'm told the setup process is essentially the same as electronic Transmission. The shifter is visually very different from existing SRAM mechanical shifters -- much boxier, kinda reminiscent of some of TRP's designs. I also hear that it shifts very, very well.
Can someone explain how this is more efficient than just a regular idler? Regular idler is 1 chain with 5 cogs to bend around. This is...
Can someone explain how this is more efficient than just a regular idler? Regular idler is 1 chain with 5 cogs to bend around. This is 6 cogs and an extra chain. I don't understand it.
On a separate post by the guy that made that bike, he said just riding the bike around and climbing, he feels like it's more efficient and less drag than the standard idler setup.
10-52t compatible with an HG driver body, huh? Mech Tranny release imminent?
I have heard through the crab vine that mech trans & Motive brakes will be released at the end of the month. New Rockshox wireless dropper will one up Wolf Tooth's 242mm drop length and with no hydraulics at all, just air
Just speculation though, crabs are quite difficult to understand
As @Digit Bikes mentioned, having one or two chains makes no difference. With an idler the chain is taught all the way over it and adds (significant) drag going on and going off the idler. With two chains this is separated and each chain adds drag only once (BB to jackshaft going off the top chainring, jackshaft to rear wheel going on the chainring).
Essentially it's the same situation, benefits, as mentioned, are packaging (you essentially rotate the whole driveline compared to having it around the BB, might come in handy, depending on the rear frame layout) and setups like these usually use rings much larger than the size of idler used by high pivot bikes.
Too bad Dave Weagle patented it... You could make a semi draggy setup with a par of 22t or 24t rings for the first loop, adjust the gear ratio by offsetting the number of teeth on either ring and have a fixed output ring. You'd get different gear ranges but no change in chain length, position, changes in antisquat, etc. And the pivot could be reasonably low for a high pivot if you went really compact.
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.
The Lal Bikes guys are now moving in a new direction and developing a steel/carbon frame built around their drivetrain. They hope this proves their drivetrain to the world, and that more manufacturers will show interest.
This is a screenshot from their latest Instagram reel (6th March).
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.The Lal Bikes guys are now moving...
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.
The Lal Bikes guys are now moving in a new direction and developing a steel/carbon frame built around their drivetrain. They hope this proves their drivetrain to the world, and that more manufacturers will show interest.
This is a screenshot from their latest Instagram reel (6th March).
Dog it's not even the 6th here.
I appreciate what they are trying to do, for the people who just won't get a gearbox instead.
However, this does require rethinking the frame and derailleur, and if I'm doing that, I'd like to see some more significant changes. For instance, why have the tensioner where the derailleur is? It may have not mattered when a derailleur was invented and we didn't know about suspension, but nowadays it'd make much more sense to have the tensioner on the sprung part of a bike if we just have to keep the shifting at the wheel. That way the tensioner wouldn't be as affected by unsuspended hits and be much more capable of keeping the chain tight, while the rear would only take care of the shifting, not tension.
But then again it's all just a workaround for a problem that's been solved so..
The tensioner is just behind the BB, tightening the chain behind the chainring on the cranks.
The pulley on the rear just guides the chain and enables gear selection. The way they did it enables them to use standard cassettes which makes the system much easier to make for a small company. To make a gearbox you need a lot of money.
The tensioner is just behind the BB, tightening the chain behind the chainring on the cranks. The pulley on the rear just guides the chain and enables...
The tensioner is just behind the BB, tightening the chain behind the chainring on the cranks.
The pulley on the rear just guides the chain and enables gear selection. The way they did it enables them to use standard cassettes which makes the system much easier to make for a small company. To make a gearbox you need a lot of money.
Right on I forgot about that, thought it was just a guide pulley behind the chainring.
Honestly, looking at the machining, shift ramps etc, I am not convinced it's the case. I think to make a good cassette and chain, which really only arrived with HG+ took a hundred years of tinkering to arrive at a slow-ass transmission.
Meanwhile check this fella out: https://youtu.be/WRyFxQyT7h8?si=IQaRet-JDeuyNVzU His channel is worth exploring, I'm not convinced building a derailleur system in a garage in Korea would have been any easier. On the contrary, I think if gearbox manufacturing scales up, it could be much less machining than a cassette and obviously last much longer.
Clearly I'm a part of the gearbox cult, but I thought the big issue was it requires a frame designed for a gearbox. If you need to buy a new frame to get a better drivetrain, I doubt there will be enough people to care about a halfway solution when gearboxes are really bloody good these days.
And before you talk about off the shelf cassette and drag, please spend some days in Whistler or squamish outside of peak summer on a crude bike vs a box and belt and tell me what had more drag at the end of the day.
Again I appreciate what Lal is trying to do, but it's too little too late. Since gearboxes can now shift under load in a much more predictable fashion than a derailleur can dream of I doubt frame manufacturers will invest heavily into mitigating a single issue with derailleurs when the DH world just started flirting with a much more sophisticated solution. That doesn't mean it'll become "the drivetrain solution", but it just isn't time to invest heavily into something that solves half the problem.
Shift ramps and machining? The whole premise of Lal is to have Shimano do the hard work (the cassette) and them focusing on the rest.
I'll look at the gearbox video, but looking at the disassembled case and the parts, I can assure you the guy had a few thousand euros worth of parts on his table to assemble one gearbox. Multiply that by a few samples, multiply by a few design loops to fix issues, pay yourself to be able to live while you develop it and you need probably multiples of thousands of dollars to get a product developed to a point where you can even start thinking about selling it or mass producing it.
Can someone explain how this is more efficient than just a regular idler? Regular idler is 1 chain with 5 cogs to bend around. This is...
Can someone explain how this is more efficient than just a regular idler? Regular idler is 1 chain with 5 cogs to bend around. This is 6 cogs and an extra chain. I don't understand it.
The difference for this system is that the lower span of chain will not be stretched out as the suspension extends, this will keep the derailleur...
The difference for this system is that the lower span of chain will not be stretched out as the suspension extends, this will keep the derailleur cage from swinging around which might make the bike quieter (or it might make it louder because the lower span of chain is closer to the chainstay). If shorter cage derailleurs were available (only on XTR these days I think) those could potentially be used with this idler set-up.
The efficiency and pedal kickback will be basicaly the same for both systems (yes, there might be some differences due to chain wrap, but insignificant especially with a well maintained chain).
The biggest differences in this instance are that the idler size has changed dramatically, and it looks like the idlers aren't the same size which would put you in a diffferent rear cog for the same gear inches. These will effect antisquat and chain growth of the all important tension segment.
I'm almost certain this came up before, but maybe it was in another place. I think he did it this way just because an idler that big would foul on the existing chainring.
Sooo, 870-880 Poe… why? And please someone explain it to me: the Hydra was the high end offering, the 1/1 was/is the low/middle end offering. Guess Hydra 2 will again be the top dog with even more Poe. But what is the Solix? Who’s it for? Another more middle middle offering?
Sooo, 870-880 Poe… why? And please someone explain it to me: the Hydra was the high end offering, the 1/1 was/is the low/middle end offering. Guess Hydra...
Sooo, 870-880 Poe… why? And please someone explain it to me: the Hydra was the high end offering, the 1/1 was/is the low/middle end offering. Guess Hydra 2 will again be the top dog with even more Poe. But what is the Solix? Who’s it for? Another more middle middle offering?
I want to love I9 stuff because it's beautiful, and I'm still on team high engagement...but I broke two Hydras and in 30 years of cycling the only stem Ive ever had an issue with was an I9, and it broke on both the body and faceplate. Great warranty, but I needed it four times for three purchases.
I wonder if axle flex is still part of the design like their first Hydra hub. That's when under power the axle would flex and allow more pawls to be engaged. It eventually led to the failures and significantly shorter bearing life. With pedal kickback being a hot topic these days, this hub is a pretty tone deaf product. Their words "no one asked for more engagement but we gave it anyways"
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.The Lal Bikes guys are now moving...
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.
The Lal Bikes guys are now moving in a new direction and developing a steel/carbon frame built around their drivetrain. They hope this proves their drivetrain to the world, and that more manufacturers will show interest.
This is a screenshot from their latest Instagram reel (6th March).
Smart guy, but this is going nowhere.
He should consider directing his talents towards a small central mounted miniature drivetrain in a box. Of course it would not be compatible with e-bikes, so that's a problem too.
10-52t compatible with an HG driver body, huh? Mech Tranny release imminent?
MSRP $215. Feeling pretty good about my prediction that a mechanical Transmission shifter + derailleur + cassette will cost more than slapping a Deore wireless shifter + derailleur on your existing Eagle/Shimano 12sp setup.
For the XC demons out there - Roval released a sub 1000gram (claimed 998grams) control world cup wheelset today it looks like
Must be some of the lightest XC wheels from a big name manufacturer. And with some form of warranty/crash replacement, at least for US customers. Here in europe we dont get the "crash replacement" part of Roval unfortunately. Not sure how good or bad it is for you guys.
Priced just around $3000 for you guys, where I live the price converts into about €3500, so quite steep.
It is mechanical Transmission. I'm told the setup process is essentially the same as electronic Transmission. The shifter is visually very different from existing SRAM mechanical shifters -- much boxier, kinda reminiscent of some of TRP's designs. I also hear that it shifts very, very well.
On a separate post by the guy that made that bike, he said just riding the bike around and climbing, he feels like it's more efficient and less drag than the standard idler setup.
What do we have here?
XS-1270 Eagle Transmission Cassette | CS-XS-1270-A1 | SRAM
10-52t compatible with an HG driver body, huh? Mech Tranny release imminent?
For those that never leave the tech rumours page
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/great-minds-think-alike-ratio-compone…
565g oof.
I have heard through the crab vine that mech trans & Motive brakes will be released at the end of the month.
New Rockshox wireless dropper will one up Wolf Tooth's 242mm drop length and with no hydraulics at all, just air
Just speculation though, crabs are quite difficult to understand
Was this posted?
As @Digit Bikes mentioned, having one or two chains makes no difference. With an idler the chain is taught all the way over it and adds (significant) drag going on and going off the idler. With two chains this is separated and each chain adds drag only once (BB to jackshaft going off the top chainring, jackshaft to rear wheel going on the chainring).
Essentially it's the same situation, benefits, as mentioned, are packaging (you essentially rotate the whole driveline compared to having it around the BB, might come in handy, depending on the rear frame layout) and setups like these usually use rings much larger than the size of idler used by high pivot bikes.
Too bad Dave Weagle patented it... You could make a semi draggy setup with a par of 22t or 24t rings for the first loop, adjust the gear ratio by offsetting the number of teeth on either ring and have a fixed output ring. You'd get different gear ranges but no change in chain length, position, changes in antisquat, etc. And the pivot could be reasonably low for a high pivot if you went really compact.
Remember Lal Supre Drive? It only ever reached the Nicolai Nucleon 16 Supre, but that partnership was stopped last year.
The Lal Bikes guys are now moving in a new direction and developing a steel/carbon frame built around their drivetrain. They hope this proves their drivetrain to the world, and that more manufacturers will show interest.
This is a screenshot from their latest Instagram reel (6th March).
Dog it's not even the 6th here.
I appreciate what they are trying to do, for the people who just won't get a gearbox instead.
However, this does require rethinking the frame and derailleur, and if I'm doing that, I'd like to see some more significant changes. For instance, why have the tensioner where the derailleur is? It may have not mattered when a derailleur was invented and we didn't know about suspension, but nowadays it'd make much more sense to have the tensioner on the sprung part of a bike if we just have to keep the shifting at the wheel. That way the tensioner wouldn't be as affected by unsuspended hits and be much more capable of keeping the chain tight, while the rear would only take care of the shifting, not tension.
But then again it's all just a workaround for a problem that's been solved so..
The tensioner is just behind the BB, tightening the chain behind the chainring on the cranks.
The pulley on the rear just guides the chain and enables gear selection. The way they did it enables them to use standard cassettes which makes the system much easier to make for a small company. To make a gearbox you need a lot of money.
Right on I forgot about that, thought it was just a guide pulley behind the chainring.
Honestly, looking at the machining, shift ramps etc, I am not convinced it's the case. I think to make a good cassette and chain, which really only arrived with HG+ took a hundred years of tinkering to arrive at a slow-ass transmission.
Meanwhile check this fella out: https://youtu.be/WRyFxQyT7h8?si=IQaRet-JDeuyNVzU His channel is worth exploring, I'm not convinced building a derailleur system in a garage in Korea would have been any easier. On the contrary, I think if gearbox manufacturing scales up, it could be much less machining than a cassette and obviously last much longer.
Clearly I'm a part of the gearbox cult, but I thought the big issue was it requires a frame designed for a gearbox. If you need to buy a new frame to get a better drivetrain, I doubt there will be enough people to care about a halfway solution when gearboxes are really bloody good these days.
And before you talk about off the shelf cassette and drag, please spend some days in Whistler or squamish outside of peak summer on a crude bike vs a box and belt and tell me what had more drag at the end of the day.
Again I appreciate what Lal is trying to do, but it's too little too late. Since gearboxes can now shift under load in a much more predictable fashion than a derailleur can dream of I doubt frame manufacturers will invest heavily into mitigating a single issue with derailleurs when the DH world just started flirting with a much more sophisticated solution. That doesn't mean it'll become "the drivetrain solution", but it just isn't time to invest heavily into something that solves half the problem.
Shift ramps and machining? The whole premise of Lal is to have Shimano do the hard work (the cassette) and them focusing on the rest.
I'll look at the gearbox video, but looking at the disassembled case and the parts, I can assure you the guy had a few thousand euros worth of parts on his table to assemble one gearbox. Multiply that by a few samples, multiply by a few design loops to fix issues, pay yourself to be able to live while you develop it and you need probably multiples of thousands of dollars to get a product developed to a point where you can even start thinking about selling it or mass producing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNZxvmyOoI
this is what I9 was teasing about, a refined Hydra Hub, nice to see they improved on some stuff
I'm almost certain this came up before, but maybe it was in another place. I think he did it this way just because an idler that big would foul on the existing chainring.
And probably also "just because I could".
a product from a company you shouldn't buy from anymore
Why shouldn't you?
Apparently 690 POE was too few
you can definitely feel the slack 🤣
Sooo, 870-880 Poe… why?
And please someone explain it to me: the Hydra was the high end offering, the 1/1 was/is the low/middle end offering. Guess Hydra 2 will again be the top dog with even more Poe. But what is the Solix? Who’s it for? Another more middle middle offering?
solix is the lighter system for road/gravel/XC
Damn, finally a hub for people that thought that 690 poe was not enough to help them climb up hills
I want to love I9 stuff because it's beautiful, and I'm still on team high engagement...but I broke two Hydras and in 30 years of cycling the only stem Ive ever had an issue with was an I9, and it broke on both the body and faceplate. Great warranty, but I needed it four times for three purchases.
from our i9 article which is on homepage
Hydra 3 will include a dyno powered speaker that only plays Eddie Murphy's classic "Party All the Time"
I wonder if axle flex is still part of the design like their first Hydra hub. That's when under power the axle would flex and allow more pawls to be engaged. It eventually led to the failures and significantly shorter bearing life. With pedal kickback being a hot topic these days, this hub is a pretty tone deaf product. Their words "no one asked for more engagement but we gave it anyways"
Smart guy, but this is going nowhere.
He should consider directing his talents towards a small central mounted miniature drivetrain in a box. Of course it would not be compatible with e-bikes, so that's a problem too.
MSRP $215. Feeling pretty good about my prediction that a mechanical Transmission shifter + derailleur + cassette will cost more than slapping a Deore wireless shifter + derailleur on your existing Eagle/Shimano 12sp setup.
For the XC demons out there - Roval released a sub 1000gram (claimed 998grams) control world cup wheelset today it looks like
Must be some of the lightest XC wheels from a big name manufacturer. And with some form of warranty/crash replacement, at least for US customers. Here in europe we dont get the "crash replacement" part of Roval unfortunately. Not sure how good or bad it is for you guys.
Priced just around $3000 for you guys, where I live the price converts into about €3500, so quite steep.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/roval-control-world-cup/p/1000218374?…