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this new one is also a bit heavier
if a small company like intend can do it, fox can do it. just don't expect the same level of detail from a mass produced product
What exactly has leaped production technology wise in the last 10 to 15 years?
We know USD forks are toesionally less stiff but much stiffer fore aft than RSU forks. What changed in the last 10 to 15 years since the Fox proto is the mass adoption of 29ers. That means longer fork legs, which overall lowers the stiffness. That's more or less it regarding changes.
What has changed is the understanding and subsequent development on the side of springs and dampers. That's where a lot of the performance is coming.
It's not a question of doing, it's a question of selling it. What's the first thing people think when they see a Dorado? I bet it's something along the lines of "that has to be flexy". Visual perception has a lot to do with how we buy products, even if it doesn't make any sense.
Then wait for the designlanguage of future Fox forks…but as always, once we see it on a lot of bikes our eyes get used to it quicker. Remember when mudguard type fenders with 22 zipties were an eyesore
Yeah, obviously, when it becomes the norm there's no problem. If USD forks take over MTB, then RSU forks will be the ugly duckling. But for a company the size of Fox it's always a risk of the product not selling because of the visuals, regardless of the performance. Having enough OEM orders might be enough to push it through. But the likes of Intend, catering to a niche, can play around with the looks a lot more, if nothing else just for the hell of it or to actually stand out and be seen.
If Fox are the mfg, and the finished product looks anywhere near as sick as the old Honda RN-01 showa forks (kashima-colored tubes & stanchions) I doubt there'd be any issue selling. Example here Honda RN-01 G-cross - Wikipedia.
just make everything kashima, the lowers and the uppers, problem solved, enough idiots out there that just want gold:
One of the good points that Darren from Push made about stiffness with their new USD fork was that torsional stiffness was overblown because front wheel traction limits the amount of force the front wheel experiences while riding. While you may be able to brace the wheel with your legs and twist the handlebars to show some twisting, that level of force is substantially higher than what is experienced in normal riding.
I do take that with a grain of salt, since there was a little bit too much marketing speak from Push in the discussion but it was a good point.
FWIW a friend of mine is running a single crown Intend USD fork and says torsional stiffness or lack thereof is a non issue. Based on his and Darren's comments I would say that is very reasonable and it makes sense torsional stiffness really isn't an issue for a fork. The looks and perception point I was making still stands as until people genuinely try an "out there" product, they will have perceptions, assumptions and reservations, even if unfounded.
My guess is: right after Bruni's next win on it
Regarding stiffness - can’t remember who said it, it was one of the USD manufacturers if I remember correctly - the hub-fork-axle interface is one of the most crucial parts regarding stiffness. So if they can figure that part out - ideally without a proprietary hub - then they could be on to something good.
I’d love a USD fork. Even if it’s just for the looks lol
I feel like this USD fork talk is kind of funny and sad. Ohlins is dropping out of advancing their mountain bike products, which is pretty telling that suspension is hitting a wall now, like frame design is. Yeah they could do USD on their forks for a few advantages but for what returns? Manitou, Intend, Push, hell, even Cannondale are doing USD forks and successfully for a while now. I think this big company, whether it is Fox or Sram, is hitting their wall and reinventing the wheel. USD will be the next hottest shit on the market because they do it now. I say we grow some hair on the chest and bring back long travel lefties and linkage forks that look like a plastic fork that was brought too close to a fire.
I respectfully disagree. I've been lucky enough to ride many USD vs traditional forks back to back over the years and the differences in torsional stiffness has always been off putting to me, albeit in certain scenarios. i.e. chunky off camber bits, rocky technical terrain where the fork is loaded and precision is key. They can be great in the right conditions, but overall the vagueness is not for me
re: ohlins - I took the comments about them less to be that they will no longer be developing / advancing / improving their forks, but more that they have what they consider to be a full product portfolio for the MTB market, and will not be introducing any "new" suspension products beyond what they already have.
portfolio: air shock, coil shock, 34mm fork, 36mm fork, 38mm fork - single crown, 38mm fork - dual crown
I also suspect that SRAM told bike manufacturers that UDH was going to be required for future drivetrains (Transmission) even though the general public wasn't told.
Öhlins RXF36 m.3:
Maybe some but not all. I was PM at Canfield Bikes when UDH was announced and that detail was not started. I suspected there was more to the story than selling $15 retail derailleur hangers.
For sure. I was told by "someone" "somewhere" (deliberately vague) they were privy to upcoming Sram product information back in spring 2021 without spilling any specific beans. Considering Transmission launched in 2023, it must have been Transmission at the time. This was for the purposes of complete bike builds.
What I want to know, amongst this discussion of a UBH, is who the hell is managing to strip their brake mount threads?
Good lord. You pull that off, you probably shouldn’t use a stove or knife, either.
Any talk about better alignment using a UBM is kinda silly. You have concentricity, parallel between axle and the outward mount hole, surface flatness between the mount and frame, in addition to the existing flatness and parallel of a traditional post mount. All in, it seems like more dimensional control is needed rather than less. This from the co that used concave/convex washers to fit between their caliper feet and frame/adapter mounts claiming 'irregular surfaces' at the mount faces while no other co had such issues (at least none that couldn't be remedied by facing the mount as you should a B
and I am calling boooogus. Definitely a trojan horse for something they have up their sleeve. Now, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out with the co's that have already been using a similar design prior to the '21 filing date. Due to prior art/design, this shouldn't have been granted and highlights how screwed/overwhelmed the US Patent Office is. If they decide to litigate against those co's I hope they get the soc media/forum beatdown Knolly did when they went after Intense over the offset seat tube design.
Love Ohlin's "if ain't broke don't fix it" approach to their forks. That TTX18 cartridge is so good I am glad they didn't change it. No marketing non-sense like MOAR shimz etc. I hope they stay this way and soon enough all my forks will be from them.
New Salsa Spearfish coming soon:
https://bikeinsights.com/bikes/5b8578e248f3a30004789742-salsa-cycles-sp…
atherton gearbox?
The requirements for the hole to mount the UBM to are about the same as the requirements for a dropout in general. Then you need a post to act as a torque brace. That's it.
Facing post mounts is a damn PITA as it requires VERY special tools as opposed to BB/HT reaming/facing. The complexity for a frame designer is, for better or for worse, lower with a (properly executed) UBM.
I mean, I've cross-threaded a brake mount post on a bike made of swiss cheese before. Wasn't my proudest moment holding a wrench, and it just required a retap.
I also saw someone who came in with the bolts sheared into their brake post mount after a "particularly odd" crash.
I'm just saying, the more parts are replaceable the better.
Looping back to the conversation about USD forks given the team rumours announced today. With Reece Wilson’s AOD racing on the Manitou Dorado (supposedly running an Oleo strut shock??), and IFR on the EXT Vaia, and a new model from an named big brand, USD forks are definitely going to be making waves in 2025. At this rate, Honda definitely needs to resurrect the RN01.
I loved this little detail on the DHR.
The frame was so nicely executed, still my fav DW-Link packaging.