MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Bikaholic
Posts
9
Joined
1/30/2024
Location
Squamish, BC CA
12/6/2024 9:07am
dolface wrote:
I'm not sure there's enough room for a USB-C port... 

I'm not sure there's enough room for a USB-C port... 

IMG 2843.jpeg?VersionId=hRgfJuG5 OwbF1UOKEOpPoWZ.
ZAKBROWN! wrote:
To me that looks like a magnetic charge point where the 2 larger circles are magnets and the charge pins go into the two small holes...

To me that looks like a magnetic charge point where the 2 larger circles are magnets and the charge pins go into the two small holes.  There’s a similar port on one of my power meters.

Poleczechy wrote:
Magnetic charger makes sense to me, found this 2023 article on NSMB where they teased the dropper. It originally had a USB-C port at the bottom...

Magnetic charger makes sense to me, found this 2023 article on NSMB where they teased the dropper. It originally had a USB-C port at the bottom which required removing the post to charge it, I'd imagine they were looking to find a better charging solution.

Screenshot 2024-12-06 at 8.57.21 AM

With Bikeyoke being a european company I don't think they are going to take the risk and work to create their own charging standard.  It is mandatory for most small rechargable electronics, phones , tablets to use the USB-C standard to be allowed to sell in the EU market. It is a bit vague and less outlined when we talk about components, specialty devices etc... but probs not worth the gamble.

4
jonkranked
Posts
824
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
12/6/2024 9:36am
Bikaholic wrote:
With Bikeyoke being a european company I don't think they are going to take the risk and work to create their own charging standard.  It is...

With Bikeyoke being a european company I don't think they are going to take the risk and work to create their own charging standard.  It is mandatory for most small rechargable electronics, phones , tablets to use the USB-C standard to be allowed to sell in the EU market. It is a bit vague and less outlined when we talk about components, specialty devices etc... but probs not worth the gamble.

its possible they have a USB C port on the bottom as depicted in the early prototype, but also a secondary less common type magnetic port on the side of the collar in the other picture. it would certainly add complexity, but also convenience while ensuring they are compliant with regulations. 

2
kperras
Posts
70
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
12/6/2024 9:59am
jonkranked wrote:
its possible they have a USB C port on the bottom as depicted in the early prototype, but also a secondary less common type magnetic port...

its possible they have a USB C port on the bottom as depicted in the early prototype, but also a secondary less common type magnetic port on the side of the collar in the other picture. it would certainly add complexity, but also convenience while ensuring they are compliant with regulations. 

It's quite possible that it would use a magnetic connection to charge. The Reform saddles use this style of connection to power the heating element in the saddles during the molding process
image 106image 107.png?VersionId=oO2CDBtbd

6
OldManCook
Posts
27
Joined
2/13/2024
Location
Christchurch NZ
12/6/2024 11:13am
Nicolas M. wrote:
The New Bosch Performance Line CX Gen 5 motors are getting an update in about 2-3 months enabling the motor to deliver up to 105NM of...

The New Bosch Performance Line CX Gen 5 motors are getting an update in about 2-3 months enabling the motor to deliver up to 105NM of torque. 

Wondering if gen 4 would see any updates

overbiked
Posts
16
Joined
10/23/2024
Location
Orem, UT US
12/6/2024 12:11pm
surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so...

surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so out of place and odd.
We buy all these nice clean looking bikes then a huge bulge 3/4 up a seat tube lol.
I've been wanting a wireless dropper but not when they look like that lmao

 

I’m with you. I want my bikes to look good (to me) and that battery placement makes my eye twitch. 

So real. Looks so bad, and it seems RS hasn't fixed the length problem based on how far his seatpost is sticking out. So far the best solutions are 1. The bike yoke concept, 2. Magura vyron, 3. Cables. I'd be happy to consider any wireless solutions Oneup comes up with.

1
Jotegr
Posts
156
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
12/6/2024 12:33pm
surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so...

surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so out of place and odd.
We buy all these nice clean looking bikes then a huge bulge 3/4 up a seat tube lol.
I've been wanting a wireless dropper but not when they look like that lmao

 

I’m with you. I want my bikes to look good (to me) and that battery placement makes my eye twitch. 

overbiked wrote:
So real. Looks so bad, and it seems RS hasn't fixed the length problem based on how far his seatpost is sticking out. So far the...

So real. Looks so bad, and it seems RS hasn't fixed the length problem based on how far his seatpost is sticking out. So far the best solutions are 1. The bike yoke concept, 2. Magura vyron, 3. Cables. I'd be happy to consider any wireless solutions Oneup comes up with.

The length of exposed post isn't really indicative of anything on pros bikes compared to us mortals, I wouldn't read into it. We seem to enjoy having a slammed post and as much drop as possible but look at dudes like Minnaar who despite being decidedly XL+ seems perfectly happy running dropper posts in the range of 150mm or so. Keene himself seems to have no great desire to get that seat slammed either, looking at various bike checks from the last decade. The Robot can probably weigh in on this one but I'll just say it doesn't tell us anything about the Reverb. 

5
lickmycrinkle
Posts
166
Joined
1/27/2021
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
12/6/2024 1:27pm

I just saw an invitation to SRAM school on the 25th of Feb. My guess is cable transmission.

11
12/6/2024 2:53pm
surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so...

surely i cant be the only one who hates the fox neo dropper design, ie the system being at the mid cap assembly, it looks so out of place and odd.
We buy all these nice clean looking bikes then a huge bulge 3/4 up a seat tube lol.
I've been wanting a wireless dropper but not when they look like that lmao

 

I’m with you. I want my bikes to look good (to me) and that battery placement makes my eye twitch. 

overbiked wrote:
So real. Looks so bad, and it seems RS hasn't fixed the length problem based on how far his seatpost is sticking out. So far the...

So real. Looks so bad, and it seems RS hasn't fixed the length problem based on how far his seatpost is sticking out. So far the best solutions are 1. The bike yoke concept, 2. Magura vyron, 3. Cables. I'd be happy to consider any wireless solutions Oneup comes up with.

@ Dropper brands, Make a decent Wireless dropper  that doesnt look like ass and has 200+ travel, I'll buy it. 
Like actually make one, sell it to me and make some profit off me. Intergrate the battery, contact charging at the post colllar, a little bit of extra length is fine as most seat tubes are short now, id happily lose 20mm off my oneup dropper down to 220 so i could have it wireless.

Sometimes It makes me wonder if brands actually want to sell products

9
overbiked
Posts
16
Joined
10/23/2024
Location
Orem, UT US
12/6/2024 3:02pm
@ Dropper brands, Make a decent Wireless dropper  that doesnt look like ass and has 200+ travel, I'll buy it. Like actually make one, sell it to...

@ Dropper brands, Make a decent Wireless dropper  that doesnt look like ass and has 200+ travel, I'll buy it. 
Like actually make one, sell it to me and make some profit off me. Intergrate the battery, contact charging at the post colllar, a little bit of extra length is fine as most seat tubes are short now, id happily lose 20mm off my oneup dropper down to 220 so i could have it wireless.

Sometimes It makes me wonder if brands actually want to sell products

I'm in the same boat. instead of what we want its "here's an ugly ass dropper that still won't drop enough. now give me 1500 bucks and don't forget to charge it every other ride."

1
lickmycrinkle
Posts
166
Joined
1/27/2021
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
12/7/2024 6:28am

Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

21
dolface
Posts
1292
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
12/7/2024 6:53am
@ Dropper brands, Make a decent Wireless dropper  that doesnt look like ass and has 200+ travel, I'll buy it. Like actually make one, sell it to...

@ Dropper brands, Make a decent Wireless dropper  that doesnt look like ass and has 200+ travel, I'll buy it. 
Like actually make one, sell it to me and make some profit off me. Intergrate the battery, contact charging at the post colllar, a little bit of extra length is fine as most seat tubes are short now, id happily lose 20mm off my oneup dropper down to 220 so i could have it wireless.

Sometimes It makes me wonder if brands actually want to sell products

I've been thinking about the insertion length thing and realized that since you don't need room for the cable to sit below the bottom of the post, the extra length of the servo/etc might not be issue. Am I crazy?

3
SilentG
Posts
10
Joined
8/5/2019
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ US
12/7/2024 7:34am
Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

Ty for that, very interesting. The re-tune of that shock from one frame to the next is pretty cool as you don't have to open up the shock.

For example, I have a Telum setup for an Airdrop Edit MX and I decided to move over to an Insurgent LS.

With a single tool (to loosen the compression caps) I just have to unwind an adjuster and then wind it in a certain number of turns to adjust for the frame difference.

I'm not smart enough to understand how it works but very cool conceptually as it makes it pretty easy for someone like me who likes to mix and match different frames on a fairly frequent basis.

5
12/7/2024 12:37pm

Any Ohlins rumors on a new rfx38?

Thinking about picking up one as they're almost half off...

2
longfellow
Posts
5
Joined
4/11/2024
Location
Nuna, BC CA
12/7/2024 12:39pm
Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

Got a link to other 3 parts?

1
two-one
Posts
3
Joined
8/26/2021
Location
NL
12/7/2024 1:45pm
Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

Just found an unlisted Telum video embedded on a customer facing website (sorry Steve). Might be interesting.

longfellow wrote:

Got a link to other 3 parts?

Let Steve release these videos on his own timing. It's good that his products are getting some attention, and I love his non-marketing approach

6
2
sethimus
Posts
300
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
12/7/2024 2:21pm

a bike brand that is also a band name is also developing an ebike with the dji avinox motor

4
1
sprungmass
Posts
118
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
12/7/2024 3:22pm Edited Date/Time 12/7/2024 3:23pm

Any Ohlins rumors on a new rfx38?

Thinking about picking up one as they're almost half off...

Can you link to this sale? Don't think there are any m.3 version for any of their products in the works. 

12/7/2024 4:06pm

Any Ohlins rumors on a new rfx38?

Thinking about picking up one as they're almost half off...

sprungmass wrote:

Can you link to this sale? Don't think there are any m.3 version for any of their products in the works. 

Its on sale at jenson but the 180 is the biggest discount.

1
boozed
Posts
334
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
12/7/2024 7:23pm
sethimus wrote:

a bike brand that is also a band name is also developing an ebike with the dji avinox motor

Ghost, presumably?  Other options might be Sunn or I'm sure there's a djent band named Polygon out there somewhere.

3
jofish
Posts
217
Joined
8/24/2009
Location
GB
12/7/2024 11:51pm
sprungmass wrote:
A wirelessly actuated linear servo placed near the BB shell. Think Di2 battery form factor. A beefy 21700 cell that lasts half a riding season and...

A wirelessly actuated linear servo placed near the BB shell. Think Di2 battery form factor. A beefy 21700 cell that lasts half a riding season and a charge port accessible through the in-frame storage box. Backup option is a charge plug coming out of the frame port. Compatible with all wired dropper posts. I might be working on something similar 😉

Am I crazy or does this all sound waaay more complex and annoying than running a cable?

22
AgrAde
Posts
53
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
AL US
12/7/2024 11:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/8/2024 12:01am

Sounds like all of the downsides of cables plus all of the downsides of wireless to me. Annoying to install, annoying to remove, needs to be charged, it's expensive and heavy, and there's more things to go wrong.

13
12/8/2024 1:31pm
Nico_Hrndz wrote:
I'm wondering why we still need to externally charge batteries for something that need this little energy to work. We are sitting on systems that are constantly...

I'm wondering why we still need to externally charge batteries for something that need this little energy to work. 

We are sitting on systems that are constantly creating energy -vibrating, braking, pedaling, pumping. Why can't we gather a fraction of this energy to rationnaly charge the electronic components? 

I can remember kinetics systems to recharge watches, and that was at least 20 years ago...

This has been my big prediction for the last couple of years - with more batteries being used it makes a ton of sense to have some kind of regenerating capability on modern bikes. Especially with larger riders on e-bikes who will always get less battery life (because physics), they will now have more kinetic energy that can be recovered through the suspension or braking. The suspension one could have interesting benefits since generating electricity could be used to supplement hydraulic damping so the energy harvesting would be used to add damping which kills 2 birds with 1 stone. The bike makers would have a hydraulic damper with the minimum tune needed, then instead of firmer tunes for heavy riders you increase the amount of harvesting the system does and the extra damping makes the bike ride better while also extending your battery life.

Rob Roskopp already alluded to this a year or so ago in an interview he did - anyone noticed where he is at now? I think Specialized has a lot of new technology in the pipeline around this space

 

Alternatively the magnet clips someone posted are a super tidy way to do it - no fragile external connectors anywhere on the ocmponent and can be sealed much better. Wireless components will only become more common, as anyone who has replaced the cable on an e-bike with attest to!

7
12/8/2024 2:23pm

Regarding wireless droppers, I wonder if it would be possible to make a similar system to the archer d1x gear shifting system. A remote, Bluetooth activated servo that opens/closes the cable end of any current cable actuated dropper post with a small cable spool. Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to do? The only bikes that it would struggle with are ones that have interrupted seat tubes like Santa Cruz, forbidden, etc


Don’t know if anyone with the tech know how is trying this already…But might bring wireless droppers to more people, and get the drop/looks that most people are after. 

3
12/8/2024 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 12/8/2024 3:05pm

I talked to a factory rider of a well known d2c brand. He also had ridden an Amflow bike with the dji motor and said he’s never ridden a bike with this good of a motor. He rode stuff up that he considered unridable on any other e-bike including his own sponsors e-bike. And the current e-bike of his sponsor is really good, but no dji motor. But there are lots of bike companies that have the dji motor already in house and build prototypes. 

HOWEVER…

There are management concerns (I assume that counts for all bike brands the same) if dji who are a large corporation, decide/calculate/figure that the bike industry isn’t worthy the revenue their motor brings in and choose to discontinue the bike motor, you then have a bunch of bikes out in the field and no more spare parts. After all, dealing with Chinese, isn’t always easy. Not trying to bash them, it’s simply that a lot of people didn’t experience great customer service from Chinese companies and they’re not necessarily known for that either. And it would suck to for the bike manufacturer and obviously for the customer, if you can’t get spare parts for the motor. 

Plus the dji cranks bend. Not during normal pedaling but if you properly case a jump, their cranks bend i.e. the pedals point down. Easy fix, choose different cranks, but this could hint other poor choices in material and/or parts strength

On the other hand, a close friend of the pro rider runs a large bike shop that sells Amflow bikes, has people storming into his shop simply asking for Amflow because of the motor. They don’t care about the bike. 

Anyway. Just what I picked up from some nerdy conversations…

13
mixmastamikal
Posts
85
Joined
9/6/2014
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
12/8/2024 3:53pm
This has been my big prediction for the last couple of years - with more batteries being used it makes a ton of sense to have...

This has been my big prediction for the last couple of years - with more batteries being used it makes a ton of sense to have some kind of regenerating capability on modern bikes. Especially with larger riders on e-bikes who will always get less battery life (because physics), they will now have more kinetic energy that can be recovered through the suspension or braking. The suspension one could have interesting benefits since generating electricity could be used to supplement hydraulic damping so the energy harvesting would be used to add damping which kills 2 birds with 1 stone. The bike makers would have a hydraulic damper with the minimum tune needed, then instead of firmer tunes for heavy riders you increase the amount of harvesting the system does and the extra damping makes the bike ride better while also extending your battery life.

Rob Roskopp already alluded to this a year or so ago in an interview he did - anyone noticed where he is at now? I think Specialized has a lot of new technology in the pipeline around this space

 

Alternatively the magnet clips someone posted are a super tidy way to do it - no fragile external connectors anywhere on the ocmponent and can be sealed much better. Wireless components will only become more common, as anyone who has replaced the cable on an e-bike with attest to!

One company that manufactures MTB suspension is currently already doing kinetic energy recovery damping for factory motorsport applications. It is not one of the big 2 either. 

4
12/8/2024 3:56pm
I talked to a factory rider of a well known d2c brand. He also had ridden an Amflow bike with the dji motor and said he’s...

I talked to a factory rider of a well known d2c brand. He also had ridden an Amflow bike with the dji motor and said he’s never ridden a bike with this good of a motor. He rode stuff up that he considered unridable on any other e-bike including his own sponsors e-bike. And the current e-bike of his sponsor is really good, but no dji motor. But there are lots of bike companies that have the dji motor already in house and build prototypes. 

HOWEVER…

There are management concerns (I assume that counts for all bike brands the same) if dji who are a large corporation, decide/calculate/figure that the bike industry isn’t worthy the revenue their motor brings in and choose to discontinue the bike motor, you then have a bunch of bikes out in the field and no more spare parts. After all, dealing with Chinese, isn’t always easy. Not trying to bash them, it’s simply that a lot of people didn’t experience great customer service from Chinese companies and they’re not necessarily known for that either. And it would suck to for the bike manufacturer and obviously for the customer, if you can’t get spare parts for the motor. 

Plus the dji cranks bend. Not during normal pedaling but if you properly case a jump, their cranks bend i.e. the pedals point down. Easy fix, choose different cranks, but this could hint other poor choices in material and/or parts strength

On the other hand, a close friend of the pro rider runs a large bike shop that sells Amflow bikes, has people storming into his shop simply asking for Amflow because of the motor. They don’t care about the bike. 

Anyway. Just what I picked up from some nerdy conversations…

US Department of Defense classify DJI as a "Chinese Military Company". I'd imagine that alone will be plenty to ward off many of the bigger, more conservative brands. Especially as we approach another 4yrs of trump tariffs. 

7
Primoz
Posts
3675
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12/8/2024 10:40pm
Regarding wireless droppers, I wonder if it would be possible to make a similar system to the archer d1x gear shifting system. A remote, Bluetooth activated...

Regarding wireless droppers, I wonder if it would be possible to make a similar system to the archer d1x gear shifting system. A remote, Bluetooth activated servo that opens/closes the cable end of any current cable actuated dropper post with a small cable spool. Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to do? The only bikes that it would struggle with are ones that have interrupted seat tubes like Santa Cruz, forbidden, etc


Don’t know if anyone with the tech know how is trying this already…But might bring wireless droppers to more people, and get the drop/looks that most people are after. 

Should be simple enough, the only problem being how to get the signal to the actuator. Frames are either steel, titanium or aluminium, all obviously conduct electricity, while carbon fibre also conducts electricity, but not sure how well. The metallic bikes for sure, possibly also carbon fibre bikes, are effectively Faraday cages which means no signal can get to the inside, more or less... 

2
12/8/2024 10:49pm
Primoz wrote:
Should be simple enough, the only problem being how to get the signal to the actuator. Frames are either steel, titanium or aluminium, all obviously conduct...

Should be simple enough, the only problem being how to get the signal to the actuator. Frames are either steel, titanium or aluminium, all obviously conduct electricity, while carbon fibre also conducts electricity, but not sure how well. The metallic bikes for sure, possibly also carbon fibre bikes, are effectively Faraday cages which means no signal can get to the inside, more or less... 

I agree, but still it works for people integrating AXS electronics in the handlebars or inside their frames. Don't understand how though. 

Primoz
Posts
3675
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12/8/2024 10:57pm
Nico_Hrndz wrote:
I'm wondering why we still need to externally charge batteries for something that need this little energy to work. We are sitting on systems that are constantly...

I'm wondering why we still need to externally charge batteries for something that need this little energy to work. 

We are sitting on systems that are constantly creating energy -vibrating, braking, pedaling, pumping. Why can't we gather a fraction of this energy to rationnaly charge the electronic components? 

I can remember kinetics systems to recharge watches, and that was at least 20 years ago...

This has been my big prediction for the last couple of years - with more batteries being used it makes a ton of sense to have...

This has been my big prediction for the last couple of years - with more batteries being used it makes a ton of sense to have some kind of regenerating capability on modern bikes. Especially with larger riders on e-bikes who will always get less battery life (because physics), they will now have more kinetic energy that can be recovered through the suspension or braking. The suspension one could have interesting benefits since generating electricity could be used to supplement hydraulic damping so the energy harvesting would be used to add damping which kills 2 birds with 1 stone. The bike makers would have a hydraulic damper with the minimum tune needed, then instead of firmer tunes for heavy riders you increase the amount of harvesting the system does and the extra damping makes the bike ride better while also extending your battery life.

Rob Roskopp already alluded to this a year or so ago in an interview he did - anyone noticed where he is at now? I think Specialized has a lot of new technology in the pipeline around this space

 

Alternatively the magnet clips someone posted are a super tidy way to do it - no fragile external connectors anywhere on the ocmponent and can be sealed much better. Wireless components will only become more common, as anyone who has replaced the cable on an e-bike with attest to!

Regarding energy recovery, I was invited to a brainstorming session by a local sports equipment brand just before covid where energy recovery was one of the ideas. It would require a completely custom drivetrain solution fkm the cranks to the rear wheel - custom motor, gearbox and a direct connection between the motor and rear wheel. That means either in hub motor or a direct chain/belt connection with no tensioners. Which means a single pivot suspension layout with a concentric pivot to the output ring. 

Then there is the question of activating and modulating the recovery, this session occurred before abs on bikes was a reality. And another question is the amount of recovery that is possible with, realistically, rear wheel only, the control or the calibration of the system should be a pain in the ass with a mountain bike and where you would be doing the energy recovery given the variability of surfaces and grip levels, etc. 

Kudos to anybody making that happen in a way where it would be genuinely useful over just a marketing gimmick that nobody cares about 3 months after the release. 

1

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