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I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion, but Lewis products are catered towards the crowd who only buys stuff on AliExpress with a guilty gut. They're nothing but rebranded white label products. You know, people who says Chinese=cheap/poor quality. This gives them the opportunity to justify their purchase because of the higher price point.
I bet their next offering will be a knockoff Ingrid rear derailleur, as those are already available on Ali, just like the 5Dev Chinesium cranks
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to.
I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them.
NOW BACK TO RUMORS!
A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories.
I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords.
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
2004 for me
5Dev is made in-house in San Diego.
I’d be very impressed if they were using the same factory.
Pretty sure Trickstuff is made in Germany too.
I think it goes without saying but the same factory line is only said by people with no understanding of manufacturing.
Yes it's the same factory, but you get what you pay for.
The exact same factory will put out incredibly high tolerance, high QC standard parts if you pay them and set the parameters.
Or they will put out low quality bulk product with no QC (good luck warranty department) because the western firm wants it as cheap as possible.
The same as the initial run is always good, as it gets checked properly and then quality can dive after the first batch delivery, so you have to stay on it.
Shimano getting parts made in Japan or Thailand makes no difference if they don't run the factories properly and continually QC, and importantly adjust the design for manufacturing tolerances.
It wasn’t me who said they were made in the same factory 🤦🏽
But at this point what categories are they missing other than (O)XC? I'd argue the Druid covers a wide enough breadth that it covers the trail/Am category nicely. Are they ready to pivot away from FS and get some hardtails out there? Other than the long CS doesn't really seem like their thing.
You're right about the 5dev/aliexpress stuff, we'd all probably benefit from moving on or risk hurting the feelings of the Chinese people.
Poorly Made in China is a good read that touches on that as far as manufacturers making what is asked of them, wild variability among manufacturers, cultural influences on that, etc.
People, mostly in the US it seems, like to yell about China but made in China doesn't automatically mean 'bad' or 'garbage' any more than made here in the US automatically means 'good' or 'quality'.
There is definitely a range there then between rip-off, homage (if you feel have a more charitable mood), a riff, innovative thing with quality revolving around on who is making it, who actually designed the thing, who is paying/not paying for it, all that good stuff.
Sorry, I wasn't intending to call you out TIm, i was just continuing the discussion from your comment, I was agreeing with your comment that "the same factory" argument is so stupid.
One word, E-Bike
I own a set of Trickstuff and Lewis LHT’s. The TS brakes have a higher end finish and a smoother lever feel with a bit more power, but the Lewis are very nice and I think they are pretty sweet. I prefer the Lewis brakes over the Formula Cura’s I ran previously. Hate to say it, but the Lewis brakes are legit.
The benefit of having things made locally is that you can go berate the supplier who (invariably) screwed up in the span of a day and deal with it in your own language without translators screwing you over.
To a point. When I was working as a design engineer not in the bike industry we'd use local manufacturing for prototyping and often it was fucking pathetic, nothing like the drawing, totally unusable, and then you'd have to have arguments or pay extra to get what you actually wanted. Often the machinist "knew better" so disregarded the spec. Or you'd send your drawings off to China and you'd actually get what you asked for, with similar turnaround times, and pay FAR less. You just have to communicate your design intent extremely well, and have your drawings perfect.
I work with a few American companies now, bike industry and not, that supply from both asia and the USA. The stuff that comes out of the USA is the worst by far.
Sadly western manufacturing aint all that.
If you choose the correct supplier it will be OK. Either at home or in China. I was talking about when it goes wrong.
Plus when doing large batches there is the problem of supply times from the east so you have to have enough stock to cover a bad shipment. Doing things closer to home these time cycles get shorter.
FWIW, a lot of the European automotive industry companies are by the looks of things turning away from China...
Indeed. Was just trying to say that overall, we often found it easier dealing with overseas rather than local because we were more likely to get what we wanted on a shorter timeframe [on air freight] even with language and cultural differences. I found it unintuitive at first.
I get the feeling that most companies exiting China are doing it for political reasons. Esp car companies with China wanting as big of a slice of the EV pie as they can get after missing out on a lot of the IC car industry. I don't really know what I'm talking about there though.
China are smashing the EV industry right now.
They’ve almost got standard batteries that you can swap out in minutes instead of charging them. You just pay a lease on the battery and don’t have to bear the huge expense of replacing them after a few years. Pull in to a battery station, swap them out and off you go. Then the station charges them and they go to the next customer.
Sadly it’ll never take off in the rest of the world because our manufacturers are too proud to standardise a part like that. Regardless of the benefits.
Paul Aston is asking for Lewis owners to contact him about any wandering bite issues they have.
I'm waiting for some actual tech rumors. Maybe a specific chat on product copying/sourcing/geo-cultural-politics
Banging on something being a knock off and otherwise comparing it to a "real" brake is veery close to saying "Lewis is shit". So no creative reading from my side.
If I didn't have Intend, I would have got a set of Lewis in a heartbeat.
Some our local rippers / engineers came up with a very unique "axle-less" pedal. Machined here in Calgary, Alberta and testing in the rocky mountains. They use a big ol 6902 bearing for spinny duties. The pendulum (drop pedal) is super interesting.
Void pedals (traditional flat)
Pendulum pedals (12mm drop) "Our platform sits 12mm below the center of the axle. Most pedals place the platform 5mm or more above the center of the axle. This effectively lowers the rider's center of mass 17mm or more offering a significant stability, and control. During sudden decelerations, the pedal acts as a pendulum and swings forward cradling the rider's foot in a heals-down position. In the event that you take your foot off a pedal, our pedals are self-righting"
Website: https://www.outliermtb.com/
Review: https://meatengines.com/f/outlier-pedals---the-void-the-pendulum---a-review-of-sorts
They were used by a World Cup team, which makes them much different in terms of consumer perception than the AliExpress clones from ZTTO, etc. Not arguing for or against Lewis’ product development practices. Sure they have the same air of being Chineseium clones but the fact they’ve been used at the highest level is the only reason why some of us are considering actually trying them out.
You shut your dirty mouth!
These are wild looking!
Just when you think that you've seen all youre ever gonna see with pedals, someone pulls this out of the bag. Hard to fill these with mud
Coming from the same town that gave us this
That thing actually rode great and while they were out demoing them at the local shuttle spot regularly to try and gain traction, even though it had lots, like all linkage bikes, nope. Just too extreme when people have an idea of what they like.
Everyone is also big on those pedals if they have them. They're weighed low so they self level and have a ton of grip.
I gotta say, thats actually super cool.
A friend has one and loves it, said he’ll struggle to go back to a regular bike. Was trying to say interesting stuff comes out of Calgary
Any idea when their shop goes live? Asking for a friend. It looks like they are almost there, but you can't complete a check out just yet.
First thing I thought of was Stirrups, especially coming from Cowtown.
They look quite cool. Wonder how they would hold up for the heavyweights?