Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
you cant even comment. it may be that only 'followers' can comment. which is funny because all the comments are already about the ridiculous price. may as well just turn off comments if... they're gonna allow any at all. dunno what their goal was here. but now they have people complaining about the price AND the decision to limit comments. i mean to me the comment thing is worse than the price. i dont care if people wanna buy s works and ltd bikes. thats fine. but limiting comments is cringe. either allow all or just turn off if you wish.
From Nate hills IG story
New axs dropper? With new side loading battery just like fox...
I think we're entering into a new pricing scheme in mtb.
And it's happening because human brains are so dumb.
Bikes are going to - over time - be priced higher and higher and higher and higher until ebikes and meatbikes (my favorite term for non-e-bikes) are almost the same price. Then mtb riders will start looking at ebikes more as a "why WOULDN'T I just get the ebike?" sort of way. Normalizing the higher meatbike price while directing more people to ebikes.
All the while, the mtb industry is Hobby Lobbying the shit out of their prices. All the meatbikes will be 20%, 30%, 40% off (after an initial full-price time period in which early-adopters, status-seekers, and no-fuss-know-what-they-want folks will buy at full price) so people FEEL like they're getting it at a bargain.
Because human brains love to get a good deal even if the prices were artificially inflated in the first place.
Right now the market fell out of mid and low end sales post covid. Top of the line stuff is probably chugging along just fine, as the target market is relatively recession immune, so we're going to see the eggs go into that basket for a while.
I dont have anything to add but just wanted to say i think E-bikes and meatbikes might be my new favorite term
Im hoping they make it in 200mm. My biggest issue with the fox one is the extra insertion depth over a mechanical dropper. I wouldnt be able to slam a 200 down to the collar where as with a pnw or one up i can on the bike im getting
Dang that bike looks rad. I love the versatility of the three pivot locations if it really is as easy as just swapping a bolt trailside. Having the option to go from say 135-160mm vs 165-190mm of travel would be neat, too.
I'll have to bug Chris to see about getting a test bike in the coming months...
Wow, please not another one. Glad Bikeyoke is coming up with a fully integrated dropper. I‘m sure it will be a great success for them.
100% new Reverb AXS, it's very similar to the patent filled by SRAM in May.
I assume you'll have to change spring rate and chain length too.
From Vampires bikes IG, you keep the same shock, same stroke length etc etc just change the pivot location and add the idler on the two higher position
Go look at inflation, high end bikes have always been expensive.
In 2004, an SWorks Enduro was $4800. (Around $8500 today).
In 2009, an SWorks Epic was $8800. (Approximately $13,000 today)
I don’t understand why everyone suddenly thinks the sky is falling. Next everyone will be complaining that $250,000 for a Huraćan is insane because a Countach used to be $100,000. It’s not like you were going to buy one anyway.
If you maintain stroke but increase travel then you are increasing LR and will need to up the spring rate to keep sag % constant (and vice versa if reducing). If you are moving the idler position then chain length will have to alter (less critical on Shimano but crucial for Sram).
Pretty sure it adds progression to counter the increase in leverage ratio as the travel gets longer.
Stop this now. You are using logic and facts to explain pricing. They won’t like it.
But seriously this - look at that stumpy - s-works and full top end Fox - that is always going to equal big bucks. But guess what - Specialized aren’t forcing you to buy it - there are cheaper versions of the Stumpjumer you can buy…. 🤦🏻♂️
I’ve come to the conclusion that humans just like to complain regardless of facts.
I love to complain and I'm a robot.
So I gave this a bit of thought...
It definitely makes sense to converge and charge it all from the main battery; so we'd need:
- a port to charge your motor remote
- a port to charge your dropper remote
- a port to charge your shifter
- a port to charge your dropper remote
- a port to charge your suspension settings remote
enough with the handlebar-mounted stuff, but we'd need more
- a port to charge your dropper
- a port to charge your derailler
- a port to charge your shock
- a port to charge either your fork (flight attendant), or a fork-mounted sensor (neo) (and what if you want run a FA fork with Neo back?)
- a port to charge your rear brake-mounted sensor
So in total, at least 10 ports! that's some extension cord right there.
Also, I believe they also mounted a thingie that moved high-pivot idler on some of WC Commencal bikes (KODS or whatever). So that's two more.
Did I forget anything else? Obviously brakes themselves, but there isnt much development there it seems yet. Or maybe a contraption to disengage pawls in your rear hub?
I like that he's working with differing materials for different parts of the frame same as neko and frameworks. My dh bike (2010 xprezo furax) is alu front triangle and steel swingarm. What's old is new again.
Bringing back this graph for the sake of illustration. If travel and shock are kept identical and the leverage curve is a nice simple line, more progressive inherently means higher initial leverage ratio and lower final leverage ratio. All these here intersect at exactly 50% shock stroke, at which point the leverage ratio is the average leverage ratio. The mathematical reasoning behind this is that total travel is the integral of the leverage curve from zero to max shock stroke.
All those ports and yet, less port-able
I saw these forks on a newly released Honda Electric trials motorcycle. Showa 39mm stanchions, 190mm travel. Could we see them available for downhill bikes one day?
I completely agree with you on the inflation stuff. Numbers can be scary to onlookers when they have memories of smaller numbers when the reality is those numbers are somewhat in line with inflation (like I mentioned, human brains are so dumb and that's another good example).
I'm should have been more clear in saying I think they'll continue to go up even further and then do the discount thing. I say that because currently many things are all discounted but are cutting into the brands/shops' bottom line in an effort to get rid of stock (as far as I can tell, I don't have direct lines of contact with people who hold the gigantic ceremonial pricing lever they use exclusively for bike prices and gas prices). I think they're going to continue with the illusion of "discount" but raise the prices so they're not decimating their bottom line so badly.
At least they didn't have the balls to try the pull the 'release on sale' concept. Which I believe is still legal in most states. Illegal in a lot of countries.
YT is the king of here's a brand new bike! And then mere months later it's 25% off and the people who bought on release probably feel... Quite awkward. That MX Jeffsy is sick tho I'm glad I didn't have ~3k laying around when they released it.
Specialized has stated that this is their strat moving forward. That was when they had the vacuum guy at the helm so maybe that will change? But it’s a consumer goods tactic to keep perceived value high while creating a perception of value/time pressure. “Damn that’s a $8k bike that must be cool. Oh wait it’s only $6599 rn I don’t want to wait and have to pay $8k!!!”
Speaking of Moto suspension on MTB's... Yamaha had some very trick looking KYB suspension on their EMTB at the Japan Mobility Show in 2023. I think I'll pass on the EPS power steering though.
What’s the details on the motor/gearbox combination? I assume from the pictures they are running something interesting seeing as there is no RD… giving me Honda RN01 vibes.
Regarding price, while of course for various reasons companies will try higher and higher prices, I think they are currently experiencing some pushback which will only get worse. From 2010 to 2019, you used to be able to buy a 6k bike for 5k, then sell it at the end of season for 3-4k and use that towards the next one. During Covid, things went a bit nuts and new bike prices went up (at the very least they were selling at MSRP instead of -10 or -20%), but if you had a nice bike in your garage you could sell it with minimal losses in 2020->2022 to fund the new one if you could get stock.
The second hand market is still in shambles now since last year, and I don't see it improving much considering all the 50% off new bikes getting sold. I don't think so many people can afford, or just be bothered, to sell their 8k bike for 3k to fund their new 10k bike (These might be pessimistic numbers for a bike, but are optimistic numbers for an ebike resale value)... I imagine shops are going to see their regular customers a bit less frequently.
I'm a cheapass and live in a part of the world where people don't have so much disposable income, might be different elsewhere.
yep, look at trek when the new rail+ is gonna be released next week, those skus are quite reasonable priced
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1aJ4m1E7tJ/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0
Can anyone find more about these new Lewis mtb brakes for, alegedly, year 2024? This is the screenshot from Dale Stone's video, but i could not find anything more on bilibili's website... Should be a bigger departure from TrickStuff's now....
The first Monster T was a based on a Marzocchi trials fork.