MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Prototype
NorCalNomad 10/5/2022 1:41pm
10/5/2022 1:41pm
pinkrobe wrote:
I was excited* to see that Cervelo released a hardtail, but then saw this: "Cables and hoses run into the frame through the headset cover." I...
I was excited* to see that Cervelo released a hardtail, but then saw this:
"Cables and hoses run into the frame through the headset cover."
I was hoping the through-headset routing thing would not be a thing. But it looks like it's going to be a thing. I do not like this thing.

*pinner XC hardtails make awesome gravel bikes
LOL Cervelo/ any euro road brand doing something to make it easier for their consumers.
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Noeserd
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Noeserd 10/5/2022 1:52pm
10/5/2022 1:52pm
AndehM wrote:
Oh god, headset (or stem) routing again.
Well atleast its aluminium so we can drill it
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nskerb
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nskerb 10/5/2022 1:57pm
10/5/2022 1:57pm
I can't imagine a world where a dual link aluminum bike with struts on the rear triangle will ever be remotely competitive weight wise (at the top level) but it does look sweet.
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FullSend
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FullSend 10/5/2022 2:26pm
10/5/2022 2:26pm
sspomer wrote:
nice find @thomas.gehrig here is screenshot and embed of the post [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/10/05/13081/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_10_05_at_12.11.00_PM.jpg[/img] View this post on Instagram A post shared by Amaury Pierron (@amaurypierron4)
nice find @thomas.gehrig

here is screenshot and embed of the post



A shame it wont be competitive in racing.
Stewyeww
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Stewyeww 10/5/2022 2:33pm
10/5/2022 2:33pm
Its like a XC bike for people that don't want to be seen on a XC bike.
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Richt2000 10/5/2022 2:44pm
10/5/2022 2:44pm
Stewyeww wrote:
Its like a XC bike for people that don't want to be seen on a XC bike.
Yea but we have the Spur and Element with proper cable routing... this commencal headset routing bike is is an instant ‘no’ from me.
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Sonofbovril2 10/5/2022 2:52pm
10/5/2022 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2022 2:53pm
sspomer wrote:
nice find @thomas.gehrig here is screenshot and embed of the post [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/10/05/13081/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_10_05_at_12.11.00_PM.jpg[/img] View this post on Instagram A post shared by Amaury Pierron (@amaurypierron4)
nice find @thomas.gehrig

here is screenshot and embed of the post



FullSend wrote:
A shame it wont be competitive in racing.
On the contrary, IMO, legs win races, not 200gram bike differences
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Matt Dogg
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Matt Dogg 10/5/2022 3:19pm
10/5/2022 3:19pm
sspomer wrote:
nice find @thomas.gehrig here is screenshot and embed of the post [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/10/05/13081/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_10_05_at_12.11.00_PM.jpg[/img] View this post on Instagram A post shared by Amaury Pierron (@amaurypierron4)
nice find @thomas.gehrig

here is screenshot and embed of the post



FullSend wrote:
A shame it wont be competitive in racing.
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
On the contrary, IMO, legs win races, not 200gram bike differences
lols 200g. The equivalent Commencal mid travel frame to my plastic one is over 1000g difference. I don’t care about the weight of this as it looks awesome but I’m guessing it’s up to a couple pounds heavier (900g) than a carbon xc rig.
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jason.west.750 10/5/2022 3:44pm
10/5/2022 3:44pm
It looks awesome! Anodized or leave raw to shave some weight, if it's a porker.
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Verbl Kint
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Verbl Kint 10/5/2022 7:05pm
10/5/2022 7:05pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
It looks awesome! Anodized or leave raw to shave some weight, if it's a porker.
A raw XC bike would be sick.
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Jonzilla
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Jonzilla 10/5/2022 9:54pm
10/5/2022 9:54pm
hmm those cables look like they must go into an then down through the steerer. An then where do they exit?? (as far as I can see from the pics..)
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qblambda
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qblambda 10/5/2022 11:46pm
10/5/2022 11:46pm
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
On the contrary, IMO, legs win races, not 200gram bike differences
Typical speech.
Take 2 identical pairs of legs, 2 identical XC bikes but one being lighter by 200g.
The lightest saves a bit more energy and so gives a bit more chances to win against the other.
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baronKanon 10/5/2022 11:51pm
10/5/2022 11:51pm
qblambda wrote:
Typical speech. Take 2 identical pairs of legs, 2 identical XC bikes but one being lighter by 200g. The lightest saves a bit more energy and...
Typical speech.
Take 2 identical pairs of legs, 2 identical XC bikes but one being lighter by 200g.
The lightest saves a bit more energy and so gives a bit more chances to win against the other.
On a straight climb on the road, yes. There are many more variables on the trail, like technique, line choice etc.
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metadave
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metadave 10/6/2022 12:29am
10/6/2022 12:29am
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up through the brake hoses while trying to also keep the hoses from twisting around the steerer or each other while also not having enough room to see down through it all. Most companies have not left enough room for the hoses to flex properly around the steerer or through the top cap so you often end up with resistance when turning as it's rubbing somewhere.... For no perceivable advantage until you hit 45km/h on smooth surfaces.
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Primoz
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Primoz 10/6/2022 12:42am
10/6/2022 12:42am
Then hit a bump at 45 kpg and the steerer gets broken from the cables rubbing into it and digging a hole in the side of it.
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melonhead1145 10/6/2022 2:04am
10/6/2022 2:04am
TimBud wrote:
The Department of Transport is a British based organisation so it having any jurisdiction to monitor compliance outside of the UK (and its "colonies") is laughable...
The Department of Transport is a British based organisation so it having any jurisdiction to monitor compliance outside of the UK (and its "colonies") is laughable. Least of all the US where Biden is doing everything he can to restrict trade because his idea on Ireland is different. Politics aside, not all DOT 5.1 fluids are the same either. Even with the "regulations" they have to adhere to.
At least with Mineral Oil each manufacturer (well the good ones at least) make their own and control it strictly... but that gets people pissed because they like to have options and will defy what is recommended to save a few pennies or just to be defiant.

The dry boring point of DOT fluid is completely irrelevant too, as it will only be in its dry state until you open the lid of the container. And even then all brake fluids/systems take in water through absorption or other, so the dry boiling temp is an almost entirely irrelevant stat.

Department of Transport is the US Government department. The British version is the Ministry of Transport, which is why our yearly test on cars is called a MoT test.

Also DOT fluid is pretty much a global standard, used in the brakes and clutches of all cars on the road as far as I know.

There's definitely arguments for and against each, I've had Hayes, Avid, Shimano, and now Magura brakes. I think SRAM said that you get a smoother lever pull with DOT???? At the moment the Magura brakes are my favourite, loads of power, good modulation, and have been rock solid with no maintenance all year. The old Avid Elixrs I had a few years ago I put goodridge braided hoses on and those brakes never needed bleeding.

I'd be interested to try the new Hope brakes, I've heard some good things
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Sonofbovril2 10/6/2022 2:22am
10/6/2022 2:22am
qblambda wrote:
Typical speech. Take 2 identical pairs of legs, 2 identical XC bikes but one being lighter by 200g. The lightest saves a bit more energy and...
Typical speech.
Take 2 identical pairs of legs, 2 identical XC bikes but one being lighter by 200g.
The lightest saves a bit more energy and so gives a bit more chances to win against the other.
Not an argument but an interesting debate ( maybe for another forum topic ) Your concept is based on equal legs. How far ahead was PFP at world champs again?

Even if you lose a sprint finish after 7 laps, blaming the marginal difference in weight of the bike is poor form. Next thing we’ll hear how someone won a sprint because of cable routing through their headset Wink

The science of mountain biking is not absolute unfortunately. Extra weight of inserts vs not finishing a race for example…

Out of interest Carod and Pidcock both won on dual link bikes this year, although they were carbon, they are technically heavier.
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bike_futurist 10/6/2022 4:15am
10/6/2022 4:15am
in article on a french page the proto xc bike (earlier version) was quoted as weighting

According to the information we were able to glean, the bike currently weighs 12.5 kg. Without addressing this subject with him, Max Commencal specifies, however, that "we do not especially look for weight, we mainly work on rigidities, cinematics, geometries...". This may also explain the shape of some tubes, which seem to have been borrowed directly from the trail model or the next Meta



https://www.vojomag.com/prototype-commencal-bientot-de-retour-en-xc/
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bike_futurist 10/6/2022 4:18am
10/6/2022 4:18am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2022 4:25am
that's at least two kilos overweight compared to xc race bikes, a bit too much to be overcome by skill, spirit, guts, determination or whatever one wants to call it, I think.


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Pedal4life
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Pedal4life 10/6/2022 5:09am
10/6/2022 5:09am

Weights are meaningless at this point the only frame piece that looks production finished is the rear triangle but the main frame definitely is still not completed look at that headtube thing looks like something from a DH bike
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Masjo
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Masjo 10/6/2022 5:47am
10/6/2022 5:47am
metadave wrote:
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up...
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up through the brake hoses while trying to also keep the hoses from twisting around the steerer or each other while also not having enough room to see down through it all. Most companies have not left enough room for the hoses to flex properly around the steerer or through the top cap so you often end up with resistance when turning as it's rubbing somewhere.... For no perceivable advantage until you hit 45km/h on smooth surfaces.
This is pretty ridiculous, I have heard that some companies only leave +/- 10mm of hose to work with, short enough that you basically can't add or remove more than one headset spacer without cutting/getting longer brake hoses. How is that working with dropper seatposts, especially 200+ ones? It's going to be such a pain to fish out the cables/housing for service if there isn't fully guided internal routing. All for

Also in line with that, it seems like this whole 'aero' (and also 'integrated') point is moot on MTB when the front brake hose is still dangling about off the front. I'll excuse the lines all running beside/under the bar (I'm sure that's not aero either but could be made so with a shroud/cover) but you still have a long cable exposed in the wind. Saying that, from what I understand you could offset the drag of an exposed cable just by making sure your helmet's straps are tight and stitching the excess chin strap in to place so it's not flapping about.
While I don't want a fully integrated/internal/hidden cable bike, I will admit that the road versions (where every cable can be hidden) look very clean.
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Brevard_Bikewrench 10/6/2022 6:41am
10/6/2022 6:41am
The new BMC Fourstroke caught my eye almost instantly after reading the PB article on it. No Im not gonna buy one, but it looks awfully similar to the bike Cecile Ravanel was riding while coaching PFP this year.
It got me thinking, what if BMC hired Commencal to help with the development of the bike, or the other way around.
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monarchmason
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monarchmason 10/6/2022 6:43am
10/6/2022 6:43am
metadave wrote:
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up...
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up through the brake hoses while trying to also keep the hoses from twisting around the steerer or each other while also not having enough room to see down through it all. Most companies have not left enough room for the hoses to flex properly around the steerer or through the top cap so you often end up with resistance when turning as it's rubbing somewhere.... For no perceivable advantage until you hit 45km/h on smooth surfaces.
You know there have been some dumb standards put out in the last decade. Some in hindsight, not so bad, some, not exactly needed but they exist and we bitch about them. Headset routing however has me kind of excited and pissed off. The one time the industry yet again tried to force dumb crap down our throats and its back firing. It seemed to take the industry by storm for no reason, at the same time, so did everyones decision to say “nope”. I hope companies learn their lesson. There are about to be a lot of un purchased bikes all because of some stupid aesthetic choice.
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matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 10/6/2022 6:47am
10/6/2022 6:47am
As far as elite XC racing, the weight of the Commencal frame will certainly be a point of contention. I have no idea if it will actually be a WC level XC race bike or a Downcountry bike. My Spur frame is almost 800 grams heavier than the Epic Evo, the delta between the Epic Evo and the Commencal is probably in the 1600-2000g range. Regardless of the weight, it appears to be a rad bike and I’m glad to see it.
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sspomer
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sspomer 10/6/2022 8:09am
10/6/2022 8:09am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2022 8:18am
let's figure amaury is on a production bike that may be a bit portly for legit WC win contention. if any top level racer is on one, isn't it a reasonable assumption that they'd be getting a fully custom, superlight, drilled-out, quintuple-butted, less-gusseted, would-probably-break-under-someone-over-150 pounds, for-race-only version? can't imagine you'd try to grab a winning XC rider only to handicap them with a bike that's significantly heavier than the competition.

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Uncle Cliffy
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Uncle Cliffy 10/6/2022 8:19am
10/6/2022 8:19am
metadave wrote:
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up...
Not going to go off on headset routing like I have before, but an experience this week, it took two people to push a fork up through the brake hoses while trying to also keep the hoses from twisting around the steerer or each other while also not having enough room to see down through it all. Most companies have not left enough room for the hoses to flex properly around the steerer or through the top cap so you often end up with resistance when turning as it's rubbing somewhere.... For no perceivable advantage until you hit 45km/h on smooth surfaces.
monarchmason wrote:
You know there have been some dumb standards put out in the last decade. Some in hindsight, not so bad, some, not exactly needed but they...
You know there have been some dumb standards put out in the last decade. Some in hindsight, not so bad, some, not exactly needed but they exist and we bitch about them. Headset routing however has me kind of excited and pissed off. The one time the industry yet again tried to force dumb crap down our throats and its back firing. It seemed to take the industry by storm for no reason, at the same time, so did everyones decision to say “nope”. I hope companies learn their lesson. There are about to be a lot of un purchased bikes all because of some stupid aesthetic choice.
I don’t know. I feel if I like the bike enough, I’ll probably just rip all the cables out and route them externally. Dropper post non-withstanding.
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marylanduro
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marylanduro 10/6/2022 8:25am
10/6/2022 8:25am
Specialized having a 'flash' sale on some models including Stumpy Evo + Turbo Kenovo.

New Stumpy Evo soon? Or new Enduro?
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kcy4130
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kcy4130 10/6/2022 9:04am
10/6/2022 9:04am
With the battery recalls they had, good thing they didn't call it a "fire sale"
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marylanduro
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marylanduro 10/6/2022 9:06am
10/6/2022 9:06am
Was refreshing the page and saw they dropped this RockShox-only Stumpy Evo. Pretty slick for the price.
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Kusa
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Kusa 10/6/2022 10:10am
10/6/2022 10:10am
marylanduro wrote:
Was refreshing the page and saw they dropped this RockShox-only Stumpy Evo. Pretty slick for the price.
There is also new non Evo LTD with Float X. Looks pretty sick.
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