MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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7/7/2022 11:55am
bizutch wrote:
I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up. Specialized has been notorious for using duct tape to hide stuff...
I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for using duct tape to hide stuff or throw people off
TSchafer wrote:
It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton designs. Interesting how...
It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton designs. Interesting how much carbon tubing is going on there too.
Specialized had lugged frames back in the dat too, tiranium and steel lugged frames
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bizutch
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7/7/2022 11:56am
bizutch wrote:
I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up. Specialized has been notorious for using duct tape to hide stuff...
I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for using duct tape to hide stuff or throw people off
TSchafer wrote:
It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton designs. Interesting how...
It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton designs. Interesting how much carbon tubing is going on there too.
I'm no expert so don't take my word as bond. Heh....
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Onawalk
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7/7/2022 12:00pm
nskerb wrote:
Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...
csermonet wrote:
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp...
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp was his creation. There are also other similarities that Owen carried over to Forbidden. Norco is one of the very few brands that does size-specific chainstay lengths, as does Forbidden. Another interesting note, the 2024 Optic and Sight will reportedly have hsp w/idler(at least according our Norco rep at the shop).
Well colour me interested!
Really looking for an aggressive geo, short travel ripper (Optic, Spur, Element)
Something to pair nicely with my Spire…
Onawalk
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7/7/2022 12:14pm
The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option? If i could and...
The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option?
If i could and for the size large, id pull reach back a little, maybe to 480-2 and put anther 10mm of stack in it. -its stack is too low for how good the rest of the bike is.

I owned a c2 for awhile in 2021 but let a friend borrow it and he crashed it, he bought it off me and got it repaired.
im looking at one for my Boy but no stock here at the moment, if they release 2023's with HP, thats me out, HP belongs on DH bikes only.
Curious,
Did you try a Cascade link on the Sight, would change the curve, and run a slightly longer stroke.
Also a slightly higher rise bar, so you can get 10mm more height, and a slight “reach” adjust.

Why don’t you think that the HP and idler “belong” on a trail bike?
The Druid works really well as a trail bike.
Helps the short travel feel even more bottomless, while not growing in wheelbase to the same degree as a longer travel version. In my mind it looks like a great application, with the drawback being slightly diminished efficiency. But we all run big sticky tires on our trails bikes, so unless we are at the sharp end of XC, doesn’t seem like such a big loss to me.

I’m open to hearing arguments against the idea
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FullSend
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7/7/2022 12:45pm
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in...
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in terms of suspension layout
That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.
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csermonet
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7/7/2022 12:53pm
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in...
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in terms of suspension layout
FullSend wrote:
That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.
Elaborate if you will, because Norco employee's are telling me that the Optic and the Sight are both going to be hsp w/idler.
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fclinder
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7/7/2022 12:55pm
nskerb wrote:
Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...
The owner of Forbidden is the Ex-Engineer that designed the Norco HSP DH bike. The reason they look alike.
FullSend
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7/7/2022 12:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2022 1:02pm
The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option? If i could and...
The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option?
If i could and for the size large, id pull reach back a little, maybe to 480-2 and put anther 10mm of stack in it. -its stack is too low for how good the rest of the bike is.

I owned a c2 for awhile in 2021 but let a friend borrow it and he crashed it, he bought it off me and got it repaired.
im looking at one for my Boy but no stock here at the moment, if they release 2023's with HP, thats me out, HP belongs on DH bikes only.
The last time I spoke with my contact at Norco he said they weren't planning on making mullet bikes. When the Range was in its prototyping phase, they made one in a mullet config but it was apparently consitently worse on the tracks they were testing on.
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Primoz
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7/7/2022 1:25pm
But the Range is 29 only, so it makes sense it would be slower. Considering the type of bike it is. The Sight comes in both flavours and I'd think a mullet would be faster than a full 27" bike. Unless in that case it's a preference/characteristic thing, which is possible considering both options are available from S to XL.

As for Specialized going this way, no idea. Could be just proto testing that doesn't lead anywhere or to a wildly different product. Seeing the bike without a cover would tell a lot more by itself, let alone being able to speak with the people at the sharp end.
Mayhem77
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7/7/2022 1:30pm
sspomer wrote:
finn's proto from practice this morn in lenzerheide [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/07/07/12691/s1200_Finn_2.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/07/07/12690/s1200_Finn.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/07/07/12692/s1200_Finn_3.jpg[/img]
finn's proto from practice this morn in lenzerheide



looks like lugs with carbon tubes

Primoz
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7/7/2022 1:42pm
Yeah this was known since mid june when the bike was first seen at Crankworks.
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7/7/2022 1:46pm
nskerb wrote:
Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...
csermonet wrote:
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp...
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp was his creation. There are also other similarities that Owen carried over to Forbidden. Norco is one of the very few brands that does size-specific chainstay lengths, as does Forbidden. Another interesting note, the 2024 Optic and Sight will reportedly have hsp w/idler(at least according our Norco rep at the shop).
Onawalk wrote:
Well colour me interested!
Really looking for an aggressive geo, short travel ripper (Optic, Spur, Element)
Something to pair nicely with my Spire…
Keep a lookout for what chromag has coming out.
It’s a killer
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stoic_machine
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7/7/2022 2:16pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2022 2:18pm
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in...
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in terms of suspension layout
FullSend wrote:
That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.
Nope but it is going to be less aggressive than the current model... And that's kinda lame. The Fluid (worst bike name on the market) is going to be moving into its place but with added travel...
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piggy
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7/7/2022 3:51pm
nskerb wrote:
Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...
csermonet wrote:
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp...
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp was his creation. There are also other similarities that Owen carried over to Forbidden. Norco is one of the very few brands that does size-specific chainstay lengths, as does Forbidden. Another interesting note, the 2024 Optic and Sight will reportedly have hsp w/idler(at least according our Norco rep at the shop).
Onawalk wrote:
Well colour me interested!
Really looking for an aggressive geo, short travel ripper (Optic, Spur, Element)
Something to pair nicely with my Spire…
Why not a Druid now? Too long of travel vs what you’re looking for?
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Salespunk
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7/7/2022 9:23pm
What about the chain stay on Finn's bike? Thing is massive and looks to be CNC'd.
7/7/2022 9:26pm
Onawalk wrote:
Well,
The guys at Forbidden, were with Norco, I believe they were the devs behind the Aurum HSP, and had a hand in the Shore.
Forbidden guys only had a hand in the AurumHSP. They were not involved in the Shore or Range that were released well after Forbidden was founded. Forbidden is sticking with a high single pivot while norco is running a high virtual pivot on those bikes, to my understanding.
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Uncle Cliffy
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7/7/2022 11:48pm
Nope but it is going to be less aggressive than the current model... And that's kinda lame. The Fluid (worst bike name on the market) is...
Nope but it is going to be less aggressive than the current model... And that's kinda lame. The Fluid (worst bike name on the market) is going to be moving into its place but with added travel...
Man that’s confusing. The Fluid was kind of the entry level bike, and the Optic was the next step up with more aggressive geometry. Weird that they would change that formula. The Optic as it stands now is super rad. Had some time on one recently and it really shines on the fast flow trail style garbage that every trail network has these days. Would really like to try one on a natural trail.

As far as the high pivot rumors go for the Sight and Optic, I’m guessing they’ll go with more of a single pivot design. If they follow the design of the Range, good luck keeping them light... My Range is 38 pounds and change. If I built a lighter wheelset with a fancy cassette, MAYBE I could shave a pound. It’s my only gripe on an otherwise phenomenal bike.


3
7/8/2022 1:55am
Crappy pic of the non-drive side of the Forbidden.
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#434
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7/8/2022 2:20am
Salespunk wrote:
What about the chain stay on Finn's bike? Thing is massive and looks to be CNC'd.
A design like that can only mean that the shock is solely conected (probably by some kind of linkage) to the chain stays, which means the chain stays have to sustain a lot of bending forces. Just like a swingarm on a dirt bike.

The demo's "swingarm" looks a lot like the swingarm design KTM is using on some of their street bikes:
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7/8/2022 2:33am
Regarding the proto demo. On the other site they had some more photos, and there is definitely a shock tunnel in the lower seat tube. I wonder if there is a linkage between the chainstay and frame that drives the shock, making the suspension layout similar to DW6.
#434
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7/8/2022 2:47am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 3:00am
Regarding the proto demo. On the other site they had some more photos, and there is definitely a shock tunnel in the lower seat tube. I...
Regarding the proto demo. On the other site they had some more photos, and there is definitely a shock tunnel in the lower seat tube. I wonder if there is a linkage between the chainstay and frame that drives the shock, making the suspension layout similar to DW6.
I think TheShortestCharles drawing (from page 257) is quite accurate on how the shock and linkage are connected to the chain stay/swingarm.


Jon_Angieri
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7/8/2022 5:40am
Let’s not forget that the inventor of the Supre drivetrain, the one that ONLY works on high pivots, is working for a unnamed “well established” manufacturer to incorporate his drivetrain into their bikes. Sounds plausible that this company could most likely be Norco
C-LION
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7/8/2022 8:03am
Forbidden DH bike


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haen
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7/8/2022 9:02am
Let’s not forget that the inventor of the Supre drivetrain, the one that ONLY works on high pivots, is working for a unnamed “well established” manufacturer...
Let’s not forget that the inventor of the Supre drivetrain, the one that ONLY works on high pivots, is working for a unnamed “well established” manufacturer to incorporate his drivetrain into their bikes. Sounds plausible that this company could most likely be Norco
In an IG post from late 2021, he explicitly said that Norco is not the company he's working with. Might be a ruse. Time will tell.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVyX_HgvCeA/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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Onawalk
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7/8/2022 10:13am
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in...
Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in terms of suspension layout
FullSend wrote:
That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.
csermonet wrote:
Elaborate if you will, because Norco employee's are telling me that the Optic and the Sight are both going to be hsp w/idler.
They’re going to be high single pivot, not a Horst link bike?
That would be a departure for sure, as they are the originator of the Horst link pivot bikes (my memory could be fuzzy on this one, I’m aware it was a spesh patent, but I think it’s earliest use was with Norco)
I’d understand a shorter travel version of the Range or Shore, but HSP would be curious.
Onawalk
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7/8/2022 10:46am
csermonet wrote:
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp...
Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp was his creation. There are also other similarities that Owen carried over to Forbidden. Norco is one of the very few brands that does size-specific chainstay lengths, as does Forbidden. Another interesting note, the 2024 Optic and Sight will reportedly have hsp w/idler(at least according our Norco rep at the shop).
Onawalk wrote:
Well colour me interested!
Really looking for an aggressive geo, short travel ripper (Optic, Spur, Element)
Something to pair nicely with my Spire…
piggy wrote:
Why not a Druid now? Too long of travel vs what you’re looking for?
It’s a little long, and a little more conservative than I’m looking for.
Ideal bike would be
120 r/140f,
64.5 HA,
76.5 SA
455 reach
435-445 adjustable RC
Ability to run mullet
615 stack
Currently on a V1 Sentinel, and the geo is nearly spot on,
Trying to figure out short stroking my Sentinel to get what I want
stoic_machine
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Dildo, Newfoundland CA
7/8/2022 10:56am
Man that’s confusing. The Fluid was kind of the entry level bike, and the Optic was the next step up with more aggressive geometry. Weird that...
Man that’s confusing. The Fluid was kind of the entry level bike, and the Optic was the next step up with more aggressive geometry. Weird that they would change that formula. The Optic as it stands now is super rad. Had some time on one recently and it really shines on the fast flow trail style garbage that every trail network has these days. Would really like to try one on a natural trail.

As far as the high pivot rumors go for the Sight and Optic, I’m guessing they’ll go with more of a single pivot design. If they follow the design of the Range, good luck keeping them light... My Range is 38 pounds and change. If I built a lighter wheelset with a fancy cassette, MAYBE I could shave a pound. It’s my only gripe on an otherwise phenomenal bike.


Oh she goes through he rough stuff pleanty well too. My optic has had some pretty wild days in Whistler valley and what not. It punches far above it's weight class. Being 6'1 I do have the lanky legs to compensate a bit more when the rear travel gets used and abused which does help.

But yeah like most things now you can get away with less travel and still have a bike that eats well.
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TimBud
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GB
7/8/2022 10:57am
Onawalk wrote:
They’re going to be high single pivot, not a Horst link bike? That would be a departure for sure, as they are the originator of the...
They’re going to be high single pivot, not a Horst link bike?
That would be a departure for sure, as they are the originator of the Horst link pivot bikes (my memory could be fuzzy on this one, I’m aware it was a spesh patent, but I think it’s earliest use was with Norco)
I’d understand a shorter travel version of the Range or Shore, but HSP would be curious.
It was Karl Nicolai working with Horst Leitner that were the first with AMP Research. Nicolai built loads of bikes for other brands during those early days too.
Everyone remembers Specialized because they owned the patent for so many years
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gibbon
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wales GB
7/8/2022 11:38am
Onawalk wrote:
They’re going to be high single pivot, not a Horst link bike? That would be a departure for sure, as they are the originator of the...
They’re going to be high single pivot, not a Horst link bike?
That would be a departure for sure, as they are the originator of the Horst link pivot bikes (my memory could be fuzzy on this one, I’m aware it was a spesh patent, but I think it’s earliest use was with Norco)
I’d understand a shorter travel version of the Range or Shore, but HSP would be curious.
IIRC Horst Leitner used it on amp bikes before licensing it to the Evil Corporate Overlords (Not Terk, the other lot).
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Kusa
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7/8/2022 2:59pm
C-LION wrote:
Forbidden DH bike [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/07/08/12706/s1200_21C1DF27_4788_47D9_A502_02133440F0CF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/07/08/12707/s1200_4AEB1A19_E3C1_4171_A65B_FA4829EA4B74.jpg[/img]
Forbidden DH bike



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