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7/7/2022 6:49 AM

CWizzle720 wrote:

Hoping Sram have an accessible bolt on the calipers of the new prototype brakes seen knocking about at the world cups unlike ...more

If you use the t25 bolts that they where designed for then you tool won't hit the calipers, saying that I still use 5mm cause its not that much of an issue!

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7/7/2022 7:25 AM

Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...

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7/7/2022 7:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2022 7:47 AM

connor and forbidden DH bike in action. he's currently 12th in timed runs with a few mins to go

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Photo

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7/7/2022 7:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2022 7:46 AM

Horst link confirmed.

Banana.split.oreos I've never seen torx bolts on any Sram brakes from the factory or from an aftermarket adapter kit. They are all 5 mm Allen. You have to buy Torx bolts aftermarket separately from any brakes or adapters (they are intended for flat mount brakes).

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7/7/2022 7:56 AM

zoomed in detail pic of loic's cockpit on his data bike as it hung off the lift. left buttons look like on/off etc for data, but what about the black button by shifter? suspension tweaker?
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7/7/2022 8:07 AM

Wouldn’t the forbidden be a link driven single pivot and not a Horst link. The rear pivot is on seat/brake stay

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7/7/2022 8:15 AM

I'm more intrested in that 3D printed cap covering the damper on the fork than that button by the shifter if I'm honest. But it's not unreasonable to think they are related, plus that rear shock cover from the past.

@lloyd506 it is on the seat stay, but that seatstay is mounted to the front triangle. With a normal linkage driven single pivot, there's a rocker in between. Said rocker, just like with the Norco Range, is near the BB and the chainstay is the 'floating' link (like the seatstay is with a normal horst link configuration or the rear triangle is with dual short link suspension).

Horst link turned upside down.

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7/7/2022 9:02 AM

lloyd506 wrote:

Wouldn’t the forbidden be a link driven single pivot and not a Horst link. The rear pivot is on seat/brake stay

Looks to me like it’s fixed to the chainstay, which in this layout is suspended between the seatstay and lower rocker. So 4 bar

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7/7/2022 9:20 AM

sspomer wrote:

finn's proto from practice this morn in lenzerheide
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Photo
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Atherton bikes making this proto for them? Would be interested to see if Specialized is doing this just as a rapid prototype, or may produce a bike with lugs and bonded tubes.

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7/7/2022 9:30 AM

New Demo photos gave me the impression there's a link running below the BB, so here's another guess at what that could look like. The shock linkage is essentially the same as the old (V4) Supreme DH and the Actofive P-Train, with a very similar LR curve to the current Demo and Enduro (linearly/straight progressive), which might make it more plausible.

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And here's a bonus approximation of that Forbidden:

Photo

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7/7/2022 9:45 AM

sspomer wrote:

zoomed in detail pic of loic's cockpit on his data bike as it hung off the lift. left buttons look like on/off etc for data, ...more

Pumps up the volume..

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7/7/2022 9:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2022 10:06 AM

lloyd506 wrote:

Wouldn’t the forbidden be a link driven single pivot and not a Horst link. The rear pivot is on seat/brake stay

It's not either. Some are calling that layout "inverted horst", since it's kinda like an upside-down Horst. The "main pivot", which would be by the BB when "right side up", is the highest pivot on the Forbidden. The rear pivot is on the "seat-stay", but that seat stay is also the main swing arm, so that rear pivot is in the same place as it would be on a horst link, just upside down. The chainstay on the Forbidden takes the role of the seat stay on a normal horst link setup, both guiding the wheel _and_ driving the shock.

It's not single pivot because there are 2 pivots (main/high and rear/seat-stay) between the wheel and frame, but it's also not horst because a Horst Link is specifically a pivot (on the main swingarm, which itself has a main pivot near the BB ) that is below and in front of the rear axle. The Forbidden has a pivot on the main swingarm, sure, but it's above and in front of the rear axle, and the main pivot is well above both the BB and the rest of the linkage, so not really a Horst link.

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7/7/2022 10:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2022 10:19 AM

nskerb wrote:

Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...

Well, they were designed by the same dude 😂 Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the Norco hsp was his creation. There are also other similarities that Owen carried over to Forbidden. Norco is one of the very few brands that does size-specific chainstay lengths, as does Forbidden. Another interesting note, the 2024 Optic and Sight will reportedly have hsp w/idler(at least according our Norco rep at the shop).

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7/7/2022 10:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2022 10:20 AM

@TheShortestCharles damn, beat me to it. When I was looking at the first pics a while ago, I though this could be a solution to it. But then I though Specialized wouldn't make something so ugly.

I do think the shock should be moved further up the downtube though. I think the bottom eyelet is in front of the seattube.

@just6979 it's a four bar linkage, so not a single pivot. As for the Horst linkness, it's a naming convention where a single pivot was differentiated from the Horst link, which at the time meant a single pivot (or faux bar) vs. a four bar linkage. With the advent of dual short link suspension systems and further variations on the multilink theme, saying something is a 'Horst link' just makes it known that one of the primary links is a long one with a shorter rocker in the mix as well. That's why we say it's a reversed (upside-down) horst link as it's easy to describe the layout.

After all, Lawwill and Eminent are four bar designs as well, but can't be classified as neither a horst link nor a dual short link design. Then there's Yeti's rail (rails actually, 303 and all), which fall into the same category (technically, kinematics wise, a rail is an infinitely long link).


On the other hand I am the nitpicker saying something isn't a 6-bar when it obviously isn't so I guess I'm lazy just when it benefits me smile

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7/7/2022 10:24 AM

csermonet wrote:

Well, they were designed by the same dude Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the ...more

Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore in terms of suspension layout

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7/7/2022 10:24 AM

csermonet wrote:

Well, they were designed by the same dude Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the ...more

Yeah I mean it's not a bad thing that they look functionally very similar, if it works it works.

I also heard that in the rumor mill regarding sight and optic having some type of high pivot (HSP or otherwise)... Idk, I really do not want to see that happen, maybe some do, but I don't really see the benefits of a bike with an idler that isn't a legit enduro bike.

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7/7/2022 10:27 AM

Why in the name of all that is holy in hell would the OPTIC be high pivot?? O_O

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7/7/2022 10:33 AM

I mean, the Druid was 130mm...

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7/7/2022 10:34 AM

I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for using duct tape to hide stuff or throw people off

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Trouble Maker. Here to spit truth in the form of sarcasm.

7/7/2022 11:17 AM

The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option?
If i could and for the size large, id pull reach back a little, maybe to 480-2 and put anther 10mm of stack in it. -its stack is too low for how good the rest of the bike is.

I owned a c2 for awhile in 2021 but let a friend borrow it and he crashed it, he bought it off me and got it repaired.
im looking at one for my Boy but no stock here at the moment, if they release 2023's with HP, thats me out, HP belongs on DH bikes only.

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7/7/2022 11:20 AM

Regarding the new Demo:
@Primoz @TheShortestCharles: If the most recent mock up TheShortestCharles did is pretty close to accurate, what are both your thoughts on WHY they would update to this design if the leverage curve is basically the same? Just to produce a 'new bike' (likely)?, more ability to tune the curves?, lighter, more rearward axle, etc, etc.?

-I do think this is a new and great way for Specialized and others to rapid prototype. Have a few basic sizes of frame tubes in-stock in house and then have the lugs 3D printed, links and other things CNC'd then glue up and bang proto ready to go. Also, maybe they are doing this as an experimental DH F1 style thing with them being able to tune the chassis stiffness of the frames exactly for a rider. Benefit of this carbon lugged frame is maybe a drop in frame weight and the ability to provide custom flex patterns for each of the two world cup riders. And then use that flex data for the future mass-produced carbon demo.

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7/7/2022 11:21 AM

nskerb wrote:

Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...

Well,
The guys at Forbidden, were with Norco, I believe they were the devs behind the Aurum HSP, and had a hand in the Shore.

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7/7/2022 11:43 AM

bizutch wrote:

I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for ...more

It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton designs. Interesting how much carbon tubing is going on there too.

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7/7/2022 11:55 AM

bizutch wrote:

I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for ...more

TSchafer wrote:

It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton ...more

Specialized had lugged frames back in the dat too, tiranium and steel lugged frames

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7/7/2022 11:56 AM

bizutch wrote:

I think all that "bonding" is just electrical tape & gorilla tape wrapping it up.
Specialized has been notorious for ...more

TSchafer wrote:

It’s not tape if you tap into the hi-res photos, it looks very well-made, and the lugs look super different from the Atherton ...more

I'm no expert so don't take my word as bond. Heh....

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Trouble Maker. Here to spit truth in the form of sarcasm.

7/7/2022 12:00 PM

nskerb wrote:

Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...

csermonet wrote:

Well, they were designed by the same dude Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the ...more

Well colour me interested!
Really looking for an aggressive geo, short travel ripper (Optic, Spur, Element)
Something to pair nicely with my Spire…

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7/7/2022 12:14 PM

noideamtber wrote:

The sight Is such a good bike now, needs a slightly longer stroke shock and a better curve. maybe a mullet option?
If i could ...more

Curious,
Did you try a Cascade link on the Sight, would change the curve, and run a slightly longer stroke.
Also a slightly higher rise bar, so you can get 10mm more height, and a slight “reach” adjust.

Why don’t you think that the HP and idler “belong” on a trail bike?
The Druid works really well as a trail bike.
Helps the short travel feel even more bottomless, while not growing in wheelbase to the same degree as a longer travel version. In my mind it looks like a great application, with the drawback being slightly diminished efficiency. But we all run big sticky tires on our trails bikes, so unless we are at the sharp end of XC, doesn’t seem like such a big loss to me.

I’m open to hearing arguments against the idea

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7/7/2022 12:45 PM

TheShortestCharles wrote:

Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore ...more

That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.

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7/7/2022 12:53 PM

csermonet wrote:

Well, they were designed by the same dude Owen Pemberton the founder of forbidden used to be an engineer at Norco and the ...more

TheShortestCharles wrote:

Sight and Optic will be high pivot (Optic first), but I'm not sure if they're going to be like the Aurum HSP, Range or Shore ...more

FullSend wrote:

That's wrong. I know for a fact that the Optic is definitley not going high-pivot.

Elaborate if you will, because Norco employee's are telling me that the Optic and the Sight are both going to be hsp w/idler.

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7/7/2022 12:55 PM

nskerb wrote:

Forbidden looked at Norco and said yeah I have what that guys having...

The owner of Forbidden is the Ex-Engineer that designed the Norco HSP DH bike. The reason they look alike.

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Enjoy your ride!