MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Noeserd
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Noeserd 6/20/2022 2:00pm
6/20/2022 2:00pm
Looks identical to big betty

7
hardbash 6/20/2022 2:37pm
6/20/2022 2:37pm
Noeserd wrote:
Looks identical to big betty [img]https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb20593822/p4pb20593822.jpg[/img]
Looks identical to big betty

you are right, should have checked that before
westrm
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westrm 6/20/2022 6:55pm
6/20/2022 6:55pm
nskerb wrote:
I think he’s grossly exaggerating pedal kick in both directions. Specifically the forward part though.
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked off the pedals so much. Something like this could maybe fix that i guess, but ill be switching back to the XT derailleur the bike came with.
4
Trocko
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Trocko 6/20/2022 8:00pm
6/20/2022 8:00pm
nskerb wrote:
I think he’s grossly exaggerating pedal kick in both directions. Specifically the forward part though.
westrm wrote:
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked...
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked off the pedals so much. Something like this could maybe fix that i guess, but ill be switching back to the XT derailleur the bike came with.
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch seems really light compared to other sram derailleurs
4
Noeserd
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Noeserd 6/21/2022 4:02am
6/21/2022 4:02am
Trocko wrote:
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch...
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch seems really light compared to other sram derailleurs
Yes, there is tons of complaints from gx axs users
Erwan_Ghesquiere 6/21/2022 4:45am
6/21/2022 4:45am
Trocko wrote:
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch...
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch seems really light compared to other sram derailleurs
Noeserd wrote:
Yes, there is tons of complaints from gx axs users
Many threads about how bad the Sram clutch is nowadays full stop. I have GX on my GF bike and the clutch got loose pretty quick and is not serviceable anymore. I have a X9 which has seen a lot of miles and that is still great and could be re tightened if needed. Shimano isn't perfect either but at least you can service it and it comes back to life and you can adjust the tension you need.
baronKanon 6/21/2022 4:51am
6/21/2022 4:51am
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
Many threads about how bad the Sram clutch is nowadays full stop. I have GX on my GF bike and the clutch got loose pretty quick...
Many threads about how bad the Sram clutch is nowadays full stop. I have GX on my GF bike and the clutch got loose pretty quick and is not serviceable anymore. I have a X9 which has seen a lot of miles and that is still great and could be re tightened if needed. Shimano isn't perfect either but at least you can service it and it comes back to life and you can adjust the tension you need.
As far as I have gathered, there is a patent for adjustable clutches, and SRAM can not implement a clutch that is possible to tighten (aka take up the slack) without violating that patent. Type 2 was possible to tighten, Type 2.1 implemented a mechanism to block that, which people were able to circumvent with some drills etc, and now Type 3 is just "sealed". That is sad.
6
Primoz
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Primoz 6/21/2022 4:53am
6/21/2022 4:53am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2022 4:54am
Just wanted to chime in as well that I think Shimano has patented the adjustable clutch.
5
whitesq
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FC, CO US
whitesq 6/21/2022 7:45am
6/21/2022 7:45am
Mr.Nally wrote:
That would be like North Korea helping the USA develop ballistic missiles Sideways
noideamtber wrote:
Kinda, This style of Printing is reasonably high tech and not alot of it is even used and we've never seen it before in MTB. I...
Kinda, This style of Printing is reasonably high tech and not alot of it is even used and we've never seen it before in MTB.
I honestly cant see spesh forking out for this kinda tech just for prototyping.

Guess we all have to wait an see.
Print your own lugs here: https://www.protolabs.com/services/3d-printing/direct-metal-laser-sinte…

Even use the same CAD as spesh (free trials at one point): https://www.onshape.com/en/
MTBrent 6/21/2022 8:15am
6/21/2022 8:15am
Could the new Demo be a 6-bar setup (a la DW6/Atherton) with the shock driven by one of the small lower links? Not sure Spesh would divert from FSR, but that phat chainstay looks like it's prime for multiple pivot locations behind the bottom bracket...
slimshady
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AR
slimshady 6/21/2022 8:21am
6/21/2022 8:21am
MTBrent wrote:
Could the new Demo be a 6-bar setup (a la DW6/Atherton) with the shock driven by one of the small lower links? Not sure Spesh would...
Could the new Demo be a 6-bar setup (a la DW6/Atherton) with the shock driven by one of the small lower links? Not sure Spesh would divert from FSR, but that phat chainstay looks like it's prime for multiple pivot locations behind the bottom bracket...
I'm intrigued by the upper link. What prevents it from folding/falling below the seatstays?
Primoz
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Primoz 6/21/2022 9:40am
6/21/2022 9:40am
Yes, I mentioned that as a possibility, but didn't go into it.

As far as Specialized CAD goes, they use Creo for CAD and Agile (oracle) and Windchill for PLM (check their job openings). Onshape looks to be a package deal containing EVERYTHING. I really wonder who signs up with them, considering the systems we use in our fairly small company, I can't see many people going for it as there will always be departments that will want to use something else. Ansys for example is the go-to in CAE/FEA. Plus people prefer to stay within a popular ecosystem as it means new hires will get up to speed quickly or find solutions to issues on Google without needing to contact support (though with the money spent for these packages, support tends to be quick and good).

As for 3D printing, Protolabs started off as a quick turn-around for injection molding (pre-printing days) where they did small runs, sometimes in silicone or aluminium tooling to get you the first protos samples, learn from them and implement changes before you went to a serial tool. But you can get local mold makers that can do a prototype tool and do test samples on it in their own facilities (tool makers usually also own injection molding machines to test the tools). I guess Protolabs is just worldwide known for their services and caters to certain clients.

And offtopic again.
jason.west.750 6/21/2022 4:08pm
6/21/2022 4:08pm
Its good to know that the chain retention is poor on the gx axs before l blow my cc. Are all the axs derailleurs like that?
matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 6/21/2022 6:59pm
6/21/2022 6:59pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
Its good to know that the chain retention is poor on the gx axs before l blow my cc. Are all the axs derailleurs like that?
I've had X01 AXS on my trail bike for about 18 months and haven't had a single issue. Never dropped a chain and not overly noisy.
1
AndehM
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AndehM 6/21/2022 7:07pm
6/21/2022 7:07pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
Its good to know that the chain retention is poor on the gx axs before l blow my cc. Are all the axs derailleurs like that?
matmattmatthew wrote:
I've had X01 AXS on my trail bike for about 18 months and haven't had a single issue. Never dropped a chain and not overly noisy.
Ditto, same for a few other guys I know. No issues with the X01.
westrm
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westrm 6/21/2022 7:24pm
6/21/2022 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2022 7:26pm
I know 3-4 other guys in my local area with GX AXS and we all have the same issue. Two of them have sent them back to SRAM only to be told its in perfect working order and functions as intended. Perhaps we need to start a GX AXS Support group thread hahaha
5
sharpy212
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sharpy212 6/21/2022 10:36pm
6/21/2022 10:36pm
nskerb wrote:
I think he’s grossly exaggerating pedal kick in both directions. Specifically the forward part though.
westrm wrote:
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked...
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked off the pedals so much. Something like this could maybe fix that i guess, but ill be switching back to the XT derailleur the bike came with.
I test rode a bike with it and felt the same thing with the feet, it would also make noises on climbs… like it was adjusting itself…. Is that normal??
Team_tons_of_pusy 6/22/2022 8:05am
6/22/2022 8:05am

Short cage AXS mech
4
Christiaan_van der Laan 6/22/2022 8:09am
6/22/2022 8:09am
Team_tons_of_pusy wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/06/22/12640/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_06_22_at_8.04.21_AM.jpg[/img] Short cage AXS mech

Short cage AXS mech
Been around a while it is just an X01 or XX1 axs mech with short cage from a x01 dh mech, function is ok, not as good as normal axs(friend did it too)
3
cameron.hoefer 6/22/2022 9:00am
6/22/2022 9:00am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2022 9:07am
westrm wrote:
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked...
I'm about to ditch GX AXS because it essentially has no clutch and my chain flaps around like crazy and ive never had my feet bucked off the pedals so much. Something like this could maybe fix that i guess, but ill be switching back to the XT derailleur the bike came with.
I'm on XT 11 speed and not looking to change until they stop selling it. I'm not a fan of Sram derailleurs, the GX groupo or AXS in general but I'm having a hard time understanding how the derailleur is bucking your feet off?
17
noideamtber 6/22/2022 2:04pm
6/22/2022 2:04pm
Interesting GX AXS talk, i recently got a GX AXS - shop installed But we cant get it to go Over far enough in the "easiest" gear, with the limit unwound all the way, Its like this on Two wheelsets, one with GX 52T and other Shimano cassettes.
on a Carbon stumpjumper evo 2022 if it matters.
itll rotate and engage nicely 95% of the time but it sometimes rides the top of the teeth before dropping into place - thats awfully annoying when i have to use that gear.
1
Zero Cool
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Zero Cool 6/22/2022 2:13pm
6/22/2022 2:13pm
Trocko wrote:
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch...
So I’m not going crazy and this is actually a thing with gx axs? I know Shimano always had firmer clutches but this gx axs clutch seems really light compared to other sram derailleurs
Noeserd wrote:
Yes, there is tons of complaints from gx axs users
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
Many threads about how bad the Sram clutch is nowadays full stop. I have GX on my GF bike and the clutch got loose pretty quick...
Many threads about how bad the Sram clutch is nowadays full stop. I have GX on my GF bike and the clutch got loose pretty quick and is not serviceable anymore. I have a X9 which has seen a lot of miles and that is still great and could be re tightened if needed. Shimano isn't perfect either but at least you can service it and it comes back to life and you can adjust the tension you need.
I do miss being able to adjust the tension on my newer SRAM mechs
1
reseRved
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reseRved 6/22/2022 3:52pm
6/22/2022 3:52pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
Its good to know that the chain retention is poor on the gx axs before l blow my cc. Are all the axs derailleurs like that?
I don't have any issues keeping the chain on (sramano set up- shimano cassette, chain ring, and chain with a GX AXS rd), but after a dozen rides I've come to the same conclusion. The lower cage flaps around like crazy. Didn't have issues with the stock XT rd, and the AXS clutch feels firm in the stand, but likes to dance on the trail.
2
Primoz
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Primoz 6/22/2022 8:40pm
6/22/2022 8:40pm
noideamtber wrote:
Interesting GX AXS talk, i recently got a GX AXS - shop installed But we cant get it to go Over far enough in the "easiest"...
Interesting GX AXS talk, i recently got a GX AXS - shop installed But we cant get it to go Over far enough in the "easiest" gear, with the limit unwound all the way, Its like this on Two wheelsets, one with GX 52T and other Shimano cassettes.
on a Carbon stumpjumper evo 2022 if it matters.
itll rotate and engage nicely 95% of the time but it sometimes rides the top of the teeth before dropping into place - thats awfully annoying when i have to use that gear.
I don't think that's an issue with the derailleur not moving left far enough. I've seen this often with properly setup mechanical dérailleurs as well. Even happening after it meshed as it should, then starting to ride the teeth.

What's the wear state of the chain and and cassette?
baronKanon 6/22/2022 9:05pm
6/22/2022 9:05pm
So, no new tech? Nothing on the new Hightower?
1
boozed
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boozed 6/22/2022 9:59pm
6/22/2022 9:59pm
baronKanon wrote:
So, no new tech? Nothing on the new Hightower?
It has a hidey-hole for your herbal sedatives, an observation port for your sag indicator and is reassuringly expensive.
22
nollak
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DE
nollak 6/22/2022 10:38pm
6/22/2022 10:38pm
baronKanon wrote:
So, no new tech? Nothing on the new Hightower?
Well as they said it's not a revolution.

What I find interesting is the size specific carbon layup which does make sense as the XL from my buddy cracked a year ago and he still hasn't gotten a replacement frame. Seems like he get's a v3 now.

Another interesting part is the use of angular contact bearings in the lower link again. My v2 Bronson came with those and I think the second year of the v2 they switched to grooved ball bearings with a shell in between. At least from the 3D they show the shell seems missing. I might be wrong on this though.
I'm intereseted why they use those again. I had mine disintegrate 2 times and was much happier with the grooved ball bearings and shell in between.
1
styriabeef 6/22/2022 10:47pm
6/22/2022 10:47pm
Nothing on the new GT SENSOR?
2
2
CascadeComponents 6/23/2022 7:55am
6/23/2022 7:55am
nollak wrote:
Well as they said it's not a revolution. What I find interesting is the size specific carbon layup which does make sense as the XL from...
Well as they said it's not a revolution.

What I find interesting is the size specific carbon layup which does make sense as the XL from my buddy cracked a year ago and he still hasn't gotten a replacement frame. Seems like he get's a v3 now.

Another interesting part is the use of angular contact bearings in the lower link again. My v2 Bronson came with those and I think the second year of the v2 they switched to grooved ball bearings with a shell in between. At least from the 3D they show the shell seems missing. I might be wrong on this though.
I'm intereseted why they use those again. I had mine disintegrate 2 times and was much happier with the grooved ball bearings and shell in between.
I don't think they actually switched to angular contacts. Under their technical documentation in the bike archive they list them as 6900-1zr. Layout of the link is identical to those that have non-angular bearings. Bearing spacer in the middle is there, which you don't use with angular contacts. It would appear there's some information on the main page for the bike that's wrong. Here's their exploded view of the lower link:
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/files/styles/scb_natural_960_auto/pub…

What I wonder is why the downsized the bearings.
7
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