MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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5/24/2022 9:16am
bnsleit wrote:
how many of the riders that dropped chains at Bill were using the new Saint groupset? thought I might've seen a pattern there
Lacanuck24 wrote:
I was in and out of the room till the top 20 and only saw Vergier and Kerr have chain issues. Honest curiousity, who else did...
I was in and out of the room till the top 20 and only saw Vergier and Kerr have chain issues. Honest curiousity, who else did?

Isn't Kerr on the current Saint? S@!t happens sometimes and personally, I'm amazed there weren't more mechanicals at Fort Bill.
Loris has been using just a bashguard for awhile. I'd prefer he'd use something with at least a lower guide element like our SXg or, better yet on idler bikes with less chainwrap, the G5.


Kerr smashed his guide, which is actually our AMg chainguide (meant for trail and enduro, not really DH) somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes into his run – not sure exactly. It appears he finished with the chain on (but even the upper guide gone), but I didn't see him take a pedal stroke or change foot position after about 2:30. So, maybe whatever happened also somehow locked his drivetrain.



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DubC
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5/24/2022 9:16am
bnsleit wrote:
how many of the riders that dropped chains at Bill were using the new Saint groupset? thought I might've seen a pattern there
Primoz wrote:
Loris. Sram.

How many riders with dropped chains were on high pivots/idlers? Didn't really watch the stream.
There is another commonality with all the riders that dropped chains other than this. Interestingly it does not seem to be an issue for Commencal.
5/24/2022 9:25am
bnsleit wrote:
how many of the riders that dropped chains at Bill were using the new Saint groupset? thought I might've seen a pattern there
Primoz wrote:
Loris. Sram.

How many riders with dropped chains were on high pivots/idlers? Didn't really watch the stream.
DubC wrote:
There is another commonality with all the riders that dropped chains other than this. Interestingly it does not seem to be an issue for Commencal.
Maybe there’s something more to that itrack patent… or maybe it’s just bad luck. Kerr on the DW pivot so can’t really say it’s a HP thing although I could see how the rearward path might expose the bb more.

Probably the guys softening their suspension for the rough and long track and then not expecting the huge holes that developed
Primoz
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5/24/2022 9:37am
Commencal's idler is much more backwards than on other bikes, which means there's a whole lot more chain wrapped around the front chainring.

What the I-track way of doing things can do is move the chain around on what is the static branch of the chain on other idler bikes as you have relative movement between the idler and the front chainring. With a front triangle (or concentric to the pivot) mounted idler, that relationship is fixed. Theoretically that should be better, but you're still suffering on the chain wrap side of things.

Noah's suggestion of a lower guide pulley chainguide makes a lot of sense as it's VERY likely the deraillment occurred from the bottom of the chainring forwards/upwards. With a standard bike (or the Commencal) it takes a lot longer to get all the way around the chainring, if at all (considering it will be pulled in what is essentially an awkward direction for the deraillment purposes).
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nskerb
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5/24/2022 9:58am
This is besides the point of the chain drop discussion but I am always pretty impressed/surprised that a relatively small company like MRP has such a strong hold and presence in a market to the point where their product is on a very large amount of the bikes competing at the very top of the sport.

Not discounting MRP at all based off the size comment, it just seems that they are a small fish in a big pond(I think). Speaks volumes for their product.
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5/24/2022 10:09am
Even the Forbidden Druid came stock with an e*thirteen lower guide; granted it has a more rearward axle path than some of the latest crop of 'mid-high' pivot models, but you'd think it'd be even more important for DH.
Dave_Camp
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5/24/2022 10:33am
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike or something where you've got a symmetric skid pan under the bb/chain area. Run the heavy skidpan setup if you need it (WC DH). Otherwise keep the ISCG05 if you want lighter more minimal protection.


Longer/lower/slacker all hurt ground clearance and breakover angle... It's asking a lot of 3x M4 bolts to keep the driveline protected at 30mph.
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5/24/2022 10:55am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike...
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike or something where you've got a symmetric skid pan under the bb/chain area. Run the heavy skidpan setup if you need it (WC DH). Otherwise keep the ISCG05 if you want lighter more minimal protection.


Longer/lower/slacker all hurt ground clearance and breakover angle... It's asking a lot of 3x M4 bolts to keep the driveline protected at 30mph.
C'mon they're M6 bolts.

You know what worked great....

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5/24/2022 11:10am
nskerb wrote:
This is besides the point of the chain drop discussion but I am always pretty impressed/surprised that a relatively small company like MRP has such a...
This is besides the point of the chain drop discussion but I am always pretty impressed/surprised that a relatively small company like MRP has such a strong hold and presence in a market to the point where their product is on a very large amount of the bikes competing at the very top of the sport.

Not discounting MRP at all based off the size comment, it just seems that they are a small fish in a big pond(I think). Speaks volumes for their product.
We may be small compared to our big corporate peers, but we've proven time and time again an uncanny ability to strategize synergistic solutions into seamless ROI streams that converge into deliverables for visionary, blockchain-backed value-oriented stakeholders and iterate turn-key, scalable interfaces to drive benchmark results in dynamic markets.

But, truly, thanks. Smile
51
Dave_Camp
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5/24/2022 11:15am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike...
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike or something where you've got a symmetric skid pan under the bb/chain area. Run the heavy skidpan setup if you need it (WC DH). Otherwise keep the ISCG05 if you want lighter more minimal protection.


Longer/lower/slacker all hurt ground clearance and breakover angle... It's asking a lot of 3x M4 bolts to keep the driveline protected at 30mph.
C'mon they're M6 bolts. You know what worked great.... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12542/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_05_24_at_11.52.30_AM.jpg[/img]
C'mon they're M6 bolts.

You know what worked great....

Agree- that worked the best. For a little while there I ran the outer chainring style bash guard AND a ISCG mounted bash taco thingy. Protect the chainring from both sides.





2
Zuestman
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Seattle, WA US
5/24/2022 11:20am
We may be small compared to our big corporate peers, but we've proven time and time again an uncanny ability to strategize synergistic solutions into seamless...
We may be small compared to our big corporate peers, but we've proven time and time again an uncanny ability to strategize synergistic solutions into seamless ROI streams that converge into deliverables for visionary, blockchain-backed value-oriented stakeholders and iterate turn-key, scalable interfaces to drive benchmark results in dynamic markets.

But, truly, thanks. Smile
That response is F*CKING Epic! Had a great laugh at that one! well done. still giggling Laughing Laughing Laughing
6
Primoz
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5/24/2022 11:24am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike...
Seems like we're at the point where DH bikes (frame companies) might need to come up with their own under-belly protection... more like a dirt bike or something where you've got a symmetric skid pan under the bb/chain area. Run the heavy skidpan setup if you need it (WC DH). Otherwise keep the ISCG05 if you want lighter more minimal protection.


Longer/lower/slacker all hurt ground clearance and breakover angle... It's asking a lot of 3x M4 bolts to keep the driveline protected at 30mph.
This is something that I've been thinking about too. Surely you'll have a lot less of an issue with frames breaking if you make a proper plastic skid plate to mount under the BB?? o.O

Though, given how few trail bikes these days come with ISCG tabs and given the vast array of front chainring sizes (even with 1X!) I might see a reason for the hesitation. Maybe...

And an ISCG guide does not add to frame weight Tongue
1
bstens
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Seattle, WA US
5/24/2022 11:29am
nskerb wrote:
This is besides the point of the chain drop discussion but I am always pretty impressed/surprised that a relatively small company like MRP has such a...
This is besides the point of the chain drop discussion but I am always pretty impressed/surprised that a relatively small company like MRP has such a strong hold and presence in a market to the point where their product is on a very large amount of the bikes competing at the very top of the sport.

Not discounting MRP at all based off the size comment, it just seems that they are a small fish in a big pond(I think). Speaks volumes for their product.
We may be small compared to our big corporate peers, but we've proven time and time again an uncanny ability to strategize synergistic solutions into seamless...
We may be small compared to our big corporate peers, but we've proven time and time again an uncanny ability to strategize synergistic solutions into seamless ROI streams that converge into deliverables for visionary, blockchain-backed value-oriented stakeholders and iterate turn-key, scalable interfaces to drive benchmark results in dynamic markets.

But, truly, thanks. Smile
Noah FTW. Close thread.
2
5/24/2022 12:25pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
Agree- that worked the best. For a little while there I ran the outer chainring style bash guard AND a ISCG mounted bash taco thingy. Protect...
Agree- that worked the best. For a little while there I ran the outer chainring style bash guard AND a ISCG mounted bash taco thingy. Protect the chainring from both sides.





I have this old Decline cover on the wall in my office. Minnaar with his signature Gamut chainguide....with the backplate and skid portion of our original G2 hidden behind it for real bash protection. Smile

4
Primoz
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5/24/2022 12:29pm
Ooooooh, Maribor!

That's prolly the biggest kudos a company can get, riders sponsored by competition riding their gear Smile
6
Scrub
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Fantasy
5/24/2022 1:04pm
You'll also hear that Kerr actually snapped ISCG tabs off the frame! So brutal.
2
5/24/2022 1:19pm
Scrub wrote:
You'll also hear that Kerr actually snapped ISCG tabs off the frame! So brutal.
Damn, he broke a frame the week before fort William by smashing it into a tree aswell.

Whats the next step in Protecting chainrings etc? make frames stronger around the tabs or what?
3
1
peecee
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Fantasy
5/24/2022 2:40pm
"Connor Fearon Had 154mm of Rear Travel, Flat Pedals and Placed 18th at Fort William"

Does anyone else find it strange that Forbidden do not have a DH bike for Connor as yet ? I get it they only have teh one bike but surely a DH bike would come from aluminium test mules before they spend all the money making a mould for a carbon version that may go into production!

Even if they just made a new link so the bike could have some more travel and a alloy rear so they could get a base from that and use anglesets to change the geo.

I feel the team are jeopardising his chances of better results the same with Intense and their new bike clearly not being ready in time for world cups.
3
Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
5/24/2022 3:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2022 3:08pm
Damn, he broke a frame the week before fort William by smashing it into a tree aswell. Whats the next step in Protecting chainrings etc? make...
Damn, he broke a frame the week before fort William by smashing it into a tree aswell.

Whats the next step in Protecting chainrings etc? make frames stronger around the tabs or what?
What if there were ISCG tabs on both sides of the BB for a skid plate mount like Dave
CAMP suggested?
1
JamesR_2026
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Bondi Beach AU
5/24/2022 3:06pm
peecee wrote:
[b]"Connor Fearon Had 154mm of Rear Travel, Flat Pedals and Placed 18th at Fort William"[/b] Does anyone else find it strange that Forbidden do not have...
"Connor Fearon Had 154mm of Rear Travel, Flat Pedals and Placed 18th at Fort William"

Does anyone else find it strange that Forbidden do not have a DH bike for Connor as yet ? I get it they only have teh one bike but surely a DH bike would come from aluminium test mules before they spend all the money making a mould for a carbon version that may go into production!

Even if they just made a new link so the bike could have some more travel and a alloy rear so they could get a base from that and use anglesets to change the geo.

I feel the team are jeopardising his chances of better results the same with Intense and their new bike clearly not being ready in time for world cups.
They have made a link to give it 180mm and Magnus Manson is running it, but it only works on the large and xl sizes. I think Connor runs a medium so is still on 154mm.
There was talk of the DH bike coming mid season
5
DirtyHal
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Spokane, WA US
5/24/2022 3:09pm
peecee wrote:
[b]"Connor Fearon Had 154mm of Rear Travel, Flat Pedals and Placed 18th at Fort William"[/b] Does anyone else find it strange that Forbidden do not have...
"Connor Fearon Had 154mm of Rear Travel, Flat Pedals and Placed 18th at Fort William"

Does anyone else find it strange that Forbidden do not have a DH bike for Connor as yet ? I get it they only have teh one bike but surely a DH bike would come from aluminium test mules before they spend all the money making a mould for a carbon version that may go into production!

Even if they just made a new link so the bike could have some more travel and a alloy rear so they could get a base from that and use anglesets to change the geo.

I feel the team are jeopardising his chances of better results the same with Intense and their new bike clearly not being ready in time for world cups.
I think they state in the press release the DH proto isn't ready for WC's yet. They have another link that Magnus was using that adds more travel but iirc a theory someone had in these forums was that that link wouldn't work on Connor's frame because he is a size smaller than Magnus and the clearance wasn't there. I could be completely wrong but that's what I remember seeing somewhere. I'm sure he has the option of sizing up and running that setup if he wanted but I think his results are just fine at the moment, bike looks great in the videos too. Suspension is dialed. It's also great marketing for Forbidden.
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5/24/2022 10:14pm
While I’m sure Connor would rather be competing for podiums again he seems to be outperforming his last couple years on Kona. Travel isn’t everything. Look forward to a forbidden dh but seems the move is working for Connor regardless of the frame he is currently on.
3
Primoz
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5/24/2022 10:29pm
Damn, he broke a frame the week before fort William by smashing it into a tree aswell. Whats the next step in Protecting chainrings etc? make...
Damn, he broke a frame the week before fort William by smashing it into a tree aswell.

Whats the next step in Protecting chainrings etc? make frames stronger around the tabs or what?
Big Bird wrote:
What if there were ISCG tabs on both sides of the BB for a skid plate mount like Dave
CAMP suggested?
2
mitch160
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5/24/2022 11:44pm






23
brash
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5/25/2022 12:46am
Hydraulic BO on the coil is sick, Nice thick shaft, HBO, Simple but effective damping.... daddy like. Love a thick shaft...wait what
8
JohSch
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Berg DE
5/25/2022 1:09am Edited Date/Time 5/25/2022 1:28am
OEM and low-end models everywhere. For when a real fork is too expensive for your revenue and profit plans but you still want to brag to customers about the great Lyrik/Pike/Zeb fork.

Also glad that I already have a 170mm Lyrik and without elastomers aka butter Smile

"Rush" seems to be pretty similar to the "Select" damper? at least on the 2022 SID "Base"

Page 16
https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/ro…
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1
lickmycrinkle
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5/25/2022 1:26am
mitch160 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12547/s1200_lyrik.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12549/s1200_pike.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12546/s1200_tlumice.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12544/s1200_tlumice1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12545/s1200_tlumice2.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12548/s1200_zeb.jpg[/img]






Finally, some rumours, and not chatting about what happened at the weekend.
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6
Noeserd
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TR
5/25/2022 3:45am
mitch160 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12547/s1200_lyrik.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12549/s1200_pike.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12546/s1200_tlumice.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12544/s1200_tlumice1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12545/s1200_tlumice2.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12548/s1200_zeb.jpg[/img]






912 euro for the select model, WHAT? HAVE THEY GONE NUTS? I got my lyrik select for 510 euro...
1
5/25/2022 3:48am
mitch160 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12547/s1200_lyrik.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12549/s1200_pike.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12546/s1200_tlumice.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12544/s1200_tlumice1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12545/s1200_tlumice2.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/24/12548/s1200_zeb.jpg[/img]






Noeserd wrote:
912 euro for the select model, WHAT? HAVE THEY GONE NUTS? I got my lyrik select for 510 euro...
Who pays retail anyway?
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