I don't believe that. Crestline spits out 99 CF frames and then makes changes.Pivot, Transition, Norco, etc makes nearly identical bikes, but with different motor systems.I...
I don't believe that. Crestline spits out 99 CF frames and then makes changes.
Pivot, Transition, Norco, etc makes nearly identical bikes, but with different motor systems.
I get that they charge a premium for them and that helps, but still.
Crestline uses prototype molds. So he literally can’t make more than like 200 before they wear out IIRC
He's doing it right then.
Small production runs, update the product every single year. Only build about 6 molds total, S-XL & probably 2 Larges. That's 1200 high margin bikes per year. If they make $3.5k/ bike, that's a cool $4.2million GP.
If the mold wears out, make a mid-year refresh, even better. Nothing bikers like more than their new ride being a miniscule amount improved over their buddies POS from 6 months ago!
E-bike's are changing too quickly to build a mold that has such a high cost that you would need to sell many thousands to recoup your costs in every size.
I can add a bit more being on the design team for this bike. We can do a better job at calling out the "why" in...
I can add a bit more being on the design team for this bike. We can do a better job at calling out the "why" in the short press release. There will be upcoming videos talking about it, but here it is from the design side of things.
As bike designers we are constrained by the shape of the motor and battery. We can't change these designs. Riders are wanting bigger batteries (800wh in this bikes case). We also have great demand to fit more shocks, from inline, to the largest enduro and coil shocks. We have to have fork crown and tire bottom out clearance on the underside of the downtube. We (internally) have a design demand to have low stand over heights and long dropper insertions. We also like to be able to fit water bottles and be prepared for any range extenders to sit inside the front triangle if they come to market. We have to have batteries that are easily removable (I.e. not having to drop the motor to remove the battery). We also want the kinematics to behave like a real mountain bike and not just have a motor with wheels and call it an e-bike. We then have to fit all of this across 4 to 5 sizes of frames. We can design for any one of these parameters pretty easily. But when we combine all of these together, it adds restrictions or compromises to some areas. E-bikes have the most constraints given the fixed design nature of the motor, battery, charge ports, etc. It's our job as designers and product managers to bring to life the very best riding characteristic and blanche all of these variables into the best riding product at a certain price point. This vertical shock design allows us to meet all the parameters listed above and have the bike ride in a way we want it to, all while making it easier to work on at home. I hope that adds a bit for you.
Nice to see another company giving us the choice between 600wh and 800wh instead of trying to gaslight us into a 600wh battery handling oh so...
Nice to see another company giving us the choice between 600wh and 800wh instead of trying to gaslight us into a 600wh battery handling oh so much better. (a bike with a dead battery doesn't handle very well 😁) I think the current free range extender promo Santa Cruz is running is a direct response to this and they and Transition are eating crow right now for doing 600wh only.
Can you reveal anything as to why the bike is aluminum only for now? Did you guys get caught off guard and need an Avinox bike ASAP? Is it to hit that $5k price point? I've noticed a bunch of brands Avinox bikes are alloy only (Ari, Propain, YT) which bucks the industry trend of either releasing carbon first, or carbon + aluminum at the same time.
We are big on the battery choice thing too. We don't know how or where everyone rides. If we offer the option, you pick what you want. You know you're riding better than we do.
Why Aluminum: Call it part timing and part strategic. A big facto was our alloy e-bike was due for an update because of the dated Shimano motor it was using. We also saw a hole in the market as there were rumors of all the Avinox bikes going carbon and very high priced (keep in mind all of this was in play long before the M2S motor announcement and the public saw the bikes). So there was a big of educated guessing going on. We wanted to offer a really high end quality bike at a cheaper price. A good looking alloy bike made sense. It wasn't being done and we saw an opportunity.. Alloy bikes take as long to make as carbon bikes, so speed wasn't really a factor. We have to open motor, dropout, main pivot and link forgings, hydro-formed tube molds, welding jigs, machining jigs, etc. If anything on the frame fails in testing we have to redesign the molds vs modifying a carbon layup if a carbon frame fails. In some cases alloy bikes are harder to make than carbon. The lower costs associated with alloy frames comes at the frame unit price. We can produce the units cheaper, but the mold costs are close to equal if we are building a high end alloy frame with custom tubing, and forgings.
Another reason for alloy was flexibility. With so many brands trying to get the same item (cue covid boom PTSD), building the bike in alloy would allow us to pivot quickly with just a motor mount change and a different hole in the top tube for the screen, if we needed to. Luckily things have been great with Avinox. They have been a great partner and supply is looking good for the foreseeable future.
I can add a bit more being on the design team for this bike. We can do a better job at calling out the "why" in...
I can add a bit more being on the design team for this bike. We can do a better job at calling out the "why" in the short press release. There will be upcoming videos talking about it, but here it is from the design side of things.
As bike designers we are constrained by the shape of the motor and battery. We can't change these designs. Riders are wanting bigger batteries (800wh in this bikes case). We also have great demand to fit more shocks, from inline, to the largest enduro and coil shocks. We have to have fork crown and tire bottom out clearance on the underside of the downtube. We (internally) have a design demand to have low stand over heights and long dropper insertions. We also like to be able to fit water bottles and be prepared for any range extenders to sit inside the front triangle if they come to market. We have to have batteries that are easily removable (I.e. not having to drop the motor to remove the battery). We also want the kinematics to behave like a real mountain bike and not just have a motor with wheels and call it an e-bike. We then have to fit all of this across 4 to 5 sizes of frames. We can design for any one of these parameters pretty easily. But when we combine all of these together, it adds restrictions or compromises to some areas. E-bikes have the most constraints given the fixed design nature of the motor, battery, charge ports, etc. It's our job as designers and product managers to bring to life the very best riding characteristic and blanche all of these variables into the best riding product at a certain price point. This vertical shock design allows us to meet all the parameters listed above and have the bike ride in a way we want it to, all while making it easier to work on at home. I hope that adds a bit for you.
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the forum! That seems like a well thought out and competitively priced bike! I was just looking at the...
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the forum! That seems like a well thought out and competitively priced bike!
I was just looking at the specs and FAQ on the Ari website and I see there is a high/low setting. Is that achieved through the use of different chips on the lower shock mount? I see the chips are flat on the bottom, so they can't simply be flipped 180 degrees.
Any idea on what these various builds will weigh, or if that info isn't available yet, what the frame will weigh?
I see it is mentioned in the FAQ that the battery can be removed without removing the motor. Any idea about how long this would take if one wanted to do it in the trailhead parking lot to extend ride time?
The high and low settings are adjusted with flip chips at the link/seat stay junction. There are also flip chips on the chain stay that allow for a long/short chain stay adjustment as well.
We spec the bikes how we would want to ride them, given the price targets. They come with bigger suspension (Zeb vs lyrik on the high end), 800wh battery vs 600wh battery, in some cases 220mm rotors for more stoping power, heavy duty DH casing tires on the rear and DD on the front, heavy duty e-bike wheels that will hold up. We could build these bikes lighter for sure, but that would sacrifice some durability, ride behavior, and have riders breaking things quicker, or shelling out more money for upgrades quicker. Depending on frame size and build spec, complete bike weights come in around 50-55lbs with the heavier duty items (even the base spec build is getting the DH/DD tire spec).
Battery removal - it is 4 small bolts on the motor cover, and then the 2 bolts on the underside of the DT and disconnecting the power cord that plugs into the battery. The battery then slides out in front of the motor It's about a 5 min swap once you have done it once or twice.
interesting PR from Bosch citing data from their app. 62 million miles ridden by US ebikers on their platform over the last 3 years------------------------U.S. Riders...
interesting PR from Bosch citing data from their app. 62 million miles ridden by US ebikers on their platform over the last 3 years
------------------------
U.S. Riders cover an estimated 62 million miles on eBikes with a Bosch System
Insights from three years of eBike Flow app data
Foothill Ranch, Calif. (September 3, 2026)
Since the first eBikes equipped with the Bosch smart system reached riders in the United States, those riders have covered an estimated 62 million miles, according to anonymized, aggregated usage data from Bosch eBike Systems.
More than 52 million of those miles are measured directly, drawn from riders who have opted into the eBike Flow app through activity tracking and connected-bike odometer readings. Conservatively extrapolated across the full number of eBikes running the Bosch smart system in the U.S., the total comes to roughly 62 million miles.
Laid end to end, 62 million miles is close to 2,500 laps of the Earth at the equator, or about two-thirds of the distance from here to the sun. It is also a little more than 22,000 rides of the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, the 2,745-mile ribbon of dirt that runs from Banff, Alberta, to the Mexican border. These miles were not covered by a fleet or a field of professionals, (though there are many eBikes with a Bosch system used for deliveries and bike share). They were covered by commuters, parents hauling kids and groceries, mountain bikers, and riders returning to cycling after years away.
"These are real miles, ridden by real people, on ordinary days," said Jocelyn Vande Velde, NA Marketing Director at Bosch eBike Systems. "Many of them are on the trail: eMTB riders getting in one more climb, one more descent, staying out longer than they expected to. The rest are commutes, errands, and school runs. What the data tells us is that the bike has become both a way deeper into the mountains and a practical answer to trips that used to belong to something else. That is the outcome we have been engineering toward for more than a decade, and it is the reason we take the responsibility of building these systems as seriously as we do."
That rider mix maps onto a broader shift underway across the U.S. market. A recent PeopleForBikes analysis describes an eBike market moving from recreation toward everyday transportation, and from the enthusiast toward the everyday rider: families, commuters, and errand-runners who never thought of themselves as cyclists. Categories built for hauling, electric cargo bikes among them, are now some of the fastest-growing in the country. The same analysis found the market to be considerably larger than headline retail figures suggest. Once direct-to-consumer and peer-to-peer channels were counted, close to one million e-bikes were bought or sold in the United States in 2024, roughly double the size the conventional numbers had shown. Sales figures capture what riders buy; usage data like the eBike Flow figures captures what they do with the bikes afterward, and both point in the same direction.
The figures cover only eBikes running the Bosch smart system, and only riders who have opted in to sharing data through the eBike Flow app. The first of those bikes did not reach the U.S. market until 2023, which makes the total a picture of roughly three years of riding rather than a full accounting of eBike travel on Bosch systems. Given that previous versions of Bosch eBike systems were introduced in the US market starting in 2014, the cumulative mileage on Bosch-equipped eBikes is massive.
Earlier this year, Bosch offered a free software update via its eBike Flow app, the Performance upgrade 2.0, allowing users to increase the motor's performance values, with more torque and support, for select drive units of the smart system. This over-the-air update became available starting May 2026 for nine of Bosch's drive units, aimed at perfecting the natural riding experience by offering the ideal balance of performance, durability, and range. In addition to over-the-air updates with new features and system improvements, the Bosch smart system, through its app, provides a central hub to track activities and ride statistics. The app also offers digital theft protection, smartphone connectivity, customized riding modes, navigation by connecting directly to apps like Strava, komoot, Apple Watch and compatible Garmin devices for route, and health tracking.
Bosch eBike Systems works with more than 100 of the world's leading bicycle brands, supplying networked drive systems including motors, batteries, displays, and the eBike Flow app. The company's approach draws on Bosch's 139-year history in mobility, and on a conviction that the value of an eBike is measured in the trips it makes possible, and the memories along the way, rather than in any single specification.
Source: anonymized, aggregated usage data from opted-in Bosch eBike Systems smart system eBikes in the United States, as of July 2026. Distance comparisons are illustrative and calculated by Verde Brand Communications.
About Bosch
Having established a presence in North America in 1906, today the Bosch Group employs around 38,000 associates in more than 100 locations in the North American region (as of Dec. 31, 2025). In 2025, Bosch generated consolidated sales of $18.8 billion in the U.S., Mexico and Canada in 2025. For more information visit www.bosch.us, www.bosch.mx and www.bosch.ca.
The Bosch Group is a leading global supplier of technology and services. It employs roughly 413,000 associates worldwide (as of December 31, 2025). The company generated sales of 91 billion euros in 2025. Its operations are divided into four business sectors: Mobility, Industrial Technology, Consumer Goods, and Energy and Building Technology. With its business activities, the company aims to use technology to help shape universal trends such as automation, digitalization, electrification, and artificial intelligence. In this context, Bosch’s broad diversification across regions and industries strengthens its innovativeness and robustness. Bosch uses its proven expertise in hardware, software, and services to offer customers cross-domain solutions from a single source. It also applies its expertise in connectivity and artificial intelligence in order to develop and manufacture intelligent, user-friendly, and sustainable products. With technology that is “Invented for life,” Bosch wants to help improve quality of life and conserve natural resources. The Bosch Group comprises Robert Bosch GmbH and its roughly 500 subsidiary and regional companies in over 60 countries. Including sales and service partners, Bosch’s global manufacturing, engineering, and sales network covers nearly every country in the world. Bosch’s innovative strength is key to the company’s further development. Bosch employs some 82,000 associates in research and development.
The company was set up in Stuttgart in 1886 by Robert Bosch (1861-1942) as “Workshop for Precision Mechanics and Electrical Engineering.” The special ownership structure of Robert Bosch GmbH guarantees the entrepreneurial freedom of the Bosch Group, making it possible for the company to plan over the long term and to undertake significant upfront investments in the safeguarding of its future. Ninety-four percent of the share capital of Robert Bosch GmbH is held by Robert Bosch Stiftung GmbH, a limited liability company with a charitable purpose. The remaining shares are held by Robert Bosch GmbH and by a company owned by the Bosch family. The majority of voting rights are held by Robert Bosch Industrietreuhand KG. It is entrusted with the task of safeguarding the company’s long-term existence and in particular its financial independence – in line with the mission handed down in the will of the company’s founder, Robert Bosch.
interesting PR from Bosch citing data from their app. 62 million miles ridden by US ebikers on their platform over the last 3 years------------------------U.S. Riders...
interesting PR from Bosch citing data from their app. 62 million miles ridden by US ebikers on their platform over the last 3 years
------------------------
U.S. Riders cover an estimated 62 million miles on eBikes with a Bosch System
Insights from three years of eBike Flow app data
Foothill Ranch, Calif. (September 3, 2026)
Since the first eBikes equipped with the Bosch smart system reached riders in the United States, those riders have covered an estimated 62 million miles, according to anonymized, aggregated usage data from Bosch eBike Systems.
More than 52 million of those miles are measured directly, drawn from riders who have opted into the eBike Flow app through activity tracking and connected-bike odometer readings. Conservatively extrapolated across the full number of eBikes running the Bosch smart system in the U.S., the total comes to roughly 62 million miles.
Laid end to end, 62 million miles is close to 2,500 laps of the Earth at the equator, or about two-thirds of the distance from here to the sun. It is also a little more than 22,000 rides of the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, the 2,745-mile ribbon of dirt that runs from Banff, Alberta, to the Mexican border. These miles were not covered by a fleet or a field of professionals, (though there are many eBikes with a Bosch system used for deliveries and bike share). They were covered by commuters, parents hauling kids and groceries, mountain bikers, and riders returning to cycling after years away.
"These are real miles, ridden by real people, on ordinary days," said Jocelyn Vande Velde, NA Marketing Director at Bosch eBike Systems. "Many of them are on the trail: eMTB riders getting in one more climb, one more descent, staying out longer than they expected to. The rest are commutes, errands, and school runs. What the data tells us is that the bike has become both a way deeper into the mountains and a practical answer to trips that used to belong to something else. That is the outcome we have been engineering toward for more than a decade, and it is the reason we take the responsibility of building these systems as seriously as we do."
That rider mix maps onto a broader shift underway across the U.S. market. A recent PeopleForBikes analysis describes an eBike market moving from recreation toward everyday transportation, and from the enthusiast toward the everyday rider: families, commuters, and errand-runners who never thought of themselves as cyclists. Categories built for hauling, electric cargo bikes among them, are now some of the fastest-growing in the country. The same analysis found the market to be considerably larger than headline retail figures suggest. Once direct-to-consumer and peer-to-peer channels were counted, close to one million e-bikes were bought or sold in the United States in 2024, roughly double the size the conventional numbers had shown. Sales figures capture what riders buy; usage data like the eBike Flow figures captures what they do with the bikes afterward, and both point in the same direction.
The figures cover only eBikes running the Bosch smart system, and only riders who have opted in to sharing data through the eBike Flow app. The first of those bikes did not reach the U.S. market until 2023, which makes the total a picture of roughly three years of riding rather than a full accounting of eBike travel on Bosch systems. Given that previous versions of Bosch eBike systems were introduced in the US market starting in 2014, the cumulative mileage on Bosch-equipped eBikes is massive.
Earlier this year, Bosch offered a free software update via its eBike Flow app, the Performance upgrade 2.0, allowing users to increase the motor's performance values, with more torque and support, for select drive units of the smart system. This over-the-air update became available starting May 2026 for nine of Bosch's drive units, aimed at perfecting the natural riding experience by offering the ideal balance of performance, durability, and range. In addition to over-the-air updates with new features and system improvements, the Bosch smart system, through its app, provides a central hub to track activities and ride statistics. The app also offers digital theft protection, smartphone connectivity, customized riding modes, navigation by connecting directly to apps like Strava, komoot, Apple Watch and compatible Garmin devices for route, and health tracking.
Bosch eBike Systems works with more than 100 of the world's leading bicycle brands, supplying networked drive systems including motors, batteries, displays, and the eBike Flow app. The company's approach draws on Bosch's 139-year history in mobility, and on a conviction that the value of an eBike is measured in the trips it makes possible, and the memories along the way, rather than in any single specification.
Source: anonymized, aggregated usage data from opted-in Bosch eBike Systems smart system eBikes in the United States, as of July 2026. Distance comparisons are illustrative and calculated by Verde Brand Communications.
About Bosch
Having established a presence in North America in 1906, today the Bosch Group employs around 38,000 associates in more than 100 locations in the North American region (as of Dec. 31, 2025). In 2025, Bosch generated consolidated sales of $18.8 billion in the U.S., Mexico and Canada in 2025. For more information visit www.bosch.us, www.bosch.mx and www.bosch.ca.
The Bosch Group is a leading global supplier of technology and services. It employs roughly 413,000 associates worldwide (as of December 31, 2025). The company generated sales of 91 billion euros in 2025. Its operations are divided into four business sectors: Mobility, Industrial Technology, Consumer Goods, and Energy and Building Technology. With its business activities, the company aims to use technology to help shape universal trends such as automation, digitalization, electrification, and artificial intelligence. In this context, Bosch’s broad diversification across regions and industries strengthens its innovativeness and robustness. Bosch uses its proven expertise in hardware, software, and services to offer customers cross-domain solutions from a single source. It also applies its expertise in connectivity and artificial intelligence in order to develop and manufacture intelligent, user-friendly, and sustainable products. With technology that is “Invented for life,” Bosch wants to help improve quality of life and conserve natural resources. The Bosch Group comprises Robert Bosch GmbH and its roughly 500 subsidiary and regional companies in over 60 countries. Including sales and service partners, Bosch’s global manufacturing, engineering, and sales network covers nearly every country in the world. Bosch’s innovative strength is key to the company’s further development. Bosch employs some 82,000 associates in research and development.
The company was set up in Stuttgart in 1886 by Robert Bosch (1861-1942) as “Workshop for Precision Mechanics and Electrical Engineering.” The special ownership structure of Robert Bosch GmbH guarantees the entrepreneurial freedom of the Bosch Group, making it possible for the company to plan over the long term and to undertake significant upfront investments in the safeguarding of its future. Ninety-four percent of the share capital of Robert Bosch GmbH is held by Robert Bosch Stiftung GmbH, a limited liability company with a charitable purpose. The remaining shares are held by Robert Bosch GmbH and by a company owned by the Bosch family. The majority of voting rights are held by Robert Bosch Industrietreuhand KG. It is entrusted with the task of safeguarding the company’s long-term existence and in particular its financial independence – in line with the mission handed down in the will of the company’s founder, Robert Bosch.
He's doing it right then.
Small production runs, update the product every single year. Only build about 6 molds total, S-XL & probably 2 Larges. That's 1200 high margin bikes per year. If they make $3.5k/ bike, that's a cool $4.2million GP.
If the mold wears out, make a mid-year refresh, even better. Nothing bikers like more than their new ride being a miniscule amount improved over their buddies POS from 6 months ago!
E-bike's are changing too quickly to build a mold that has such a high cost that you would need to sell many thousands to recoup your costs in every size.
We are big on the battery choice thing too. We don't know how or where everyone rides. If we offer the option, you pick what you want. You know you're riding better than we do.
Why Aluminum: Call it part timing and part strategic. A big facto was our alloy e-bike was due for an update because of the dated Shimano motor it was using. We also saw a hole in the market as there were rumors of all the Avinox bikes going carbon and very high priced (keep in mind all of this was in play long before the M2S motor announcement and the public saw the bikes). So there was a big of educated guessing going on. We wanted to offer a really high end quality bike at a cheaper price. A good looking alloy bike made sense. It wasn't being done and we saw an opportunity.. Alloy bikes take as long to make as carbon bikes, so speed wasn't really a factor. We have to open motor, dropout, main pivot and link forgings, hydro-formed tube molds, welding jigs, machining jigs, etc. If anything on the frame fails in testing we have to redesign the molds vs modifying a carbon layup if a carbon frame fails. In some cases alloy bikes are harder to make than carbon. The lower costs associated with alloy frames comes at the frame unit price. We can produce the units cheaper, but the mold costs are close to equal if we are building a high end alloy frame with custom tubing, and forgings.
Another reason for alloy was flexibility. With so many brands trying to get the same item (cue covid boom PTSD), building the bike in alloy would allow us to pivot quickly with just a motor mount change and a different hole in the top tube for the screen, if we needed to. Luckily things have been great with Avinox. They have been a great partner and supply is looking good for the foreseeable future.
The high and low settings are adjusted with flip chips at the link/seat stay junction. There are also flip chips on the chain stay that allow for a long/short chain stay adjustment as well.
We spec the bikes how we would want to ride them, given the price targets. They come with bigger suspension (Zeb vs lyrik on the high end), 800wh battery vs 600wh battery, in some cases 220mm rotors for more stoping power, heavy duty DH casing tires on the rear and DD on the front, heavy duty e-bike wheels that will hold up. We could build these bikes lighter for sure, but that would sacrifice some durability, ride behavior, and have riders breaking things quicker, or shelling out more money for upgrades quicker. Depending on frame size and build spec, complete bike weights come in around 50-55lbs with the heavier duty items (even the base spec build is getting the DH/DD tire spec).
Battery removal - it is 4 small bolts on the motor cover, and then the 2 bolts on the underside of the DT and disconnecting the power cord that plugs into the battery. The battery then slides out in front of the motor It's about a 5 min swap once you have done it once or twice.
that’s only 0.59 miles per american per year
Or 5.5 Americans per mile!
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