A better question is if any DH bikes would still have derailleurs if you didn't have massive relationships between SRAM, Shimano and the big brands. Moving a...
A better question is if any DH bikes would still have derailleurs if you didn't have massive relationships between SRAM, Shimano and the big brands.
Moving a bunch of weight off the rear axle to an enclosed system under the bb is perfect for DH.
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be lacking. Imagine, no DR, no cassette, no chain, freedom to use any crank length or even pegs if you want.
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too...
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too. What I don't see them running is belts, they'd 100% be running them on chains instead because of how bad the belts are at clearing mud.
Wasn't Zerode using GBs years before the Gates prize showed up.
A better question is if any DH bikes would still have derailleurs if you didn't have massive relationships between SRAM, Shimano and the big brands. Moving a...
A better question is if any DH bikes would still have derailleurs if you didn't have massive relationships between SRAM, Shimano and the big brands.
Moving a bunch of weight off the rear axle to an enclosed system under the bb is perfect for DH.
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be...
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be lacking. Imagine, no DR, no cassette, no chain, freedom to use any crank length or even pegs if you want.
Could you imagine a DH series with no pedaling allowed? I think they do that for the pump-track world series. We also have a chainless category for our local beer league DH series and it's the most fun.
10/10 would support a move to chainless DH races. Ha ha.
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be...
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be lacking. Imagine, no DR, no cassette, no chain, freedom to use any crank length or even pegs if you want.
Right foot forward and the only time I broke a derailleur was when I jumped and landed sideways when I was in the largest cog. The derailleur was pulled into the spokes and that was it. An old 9spd X9 derailleur.
What I have done multiple times is park the derailleur sideways into a rock, onto a wooden ledge, bent the hanger, etc. but always just straightened the hanger and rode on. For the past 7 years exclusively on X01 derailleurs (two separate ones on 2 separate bikes.
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too...
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too. What I don't see them running is belts, they'd 100% be running them on chains instead because of how bad the belts are at clearing mud.
The prize is for the belt, not the gearbox. It just happens you need a gearbox if you want to run a belt.
single speed and internal gear hub guys are gonna be pissed at you for saying that!
I think they’ll be best served if nobody wins it. Right now we say their name every week. If someone finally scrapes out a win it’ll be the end of the story. Red Sox became really boring once they finally won.
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too...
Honestly I see a few still running gearboxes, that centralised weight does help with DH bikes and the changing gear while not pedalling is useful too. What I don't see them running is belts, they'd 100% be running them on chains instead because of how bad the belts are at clearing mud.
The prize is for the belt, not the gearbox. It just happens you need a gearbox if you want to run a belt.
Sure, but folks were suggesting that bikes might not use a belt if it weren't for the Gates prize. Zerode, as an example, was using them 4 years before Gates offered up the prize, so clearly, not the driver for them.
As mentioned a few times before, I think GBs and belt drives are an interesting solution for gravity sports. Unclear, in my mind at least, if they are definitively better than conventional drive systems, even in that area. It's pretty tough to decipher all of the politics and contractual obligations that might prevent some of the winningest DH teams from using them: Syndicate, Spec, FW, etc. Perhaps those teams just have the bucks to hire the fastest riders, and Gates would have already paid out the prize money if one of them changed teams.
single speed and internal gear hub guys are gonna be pissed at you for saying that!I think they’ll be best served if nobody wins it. Right...
single speed and internal gear hub guys are gonna be pissed at you for saying that!
I think they’ll be best served if nobody wins it. Right now we say their name every week. If someone finally scrapes out a win it’ll be the end of the story. Red Sox became really boring once they finally won.
There are racers on the WC DH running internally geared hubs or single speeds?!
Let's not forget that Gates is a HUGE company. The bike industry connection is certainly their smallest division. Their automotive and auto adjacent business revenues are likely 1000X what they see in the bike industry. Gates isn't going anywhere and we will be seeing further adoption of their products as they expand into more aspects of cycling.
Had a few beers, years ago with a major tire manufacturer sales rep. He talked of how the bicycle division was their highest margin division, but their gross sales dollars were smaller than their marketing expenses for the automotive division. Really put things in perspective of our industry's size.
Not only pedal, your right shoe. My right shoe gets way more beat up being left foot forward. I’m not understanding the left foot forward coordination to...
Not only pedal, your right shoe. My right shoe gets way more beat up being left foot forward.
I’m not understanding the left foot forward coordination to being harsher on derailleurs? Your right foot can often protect the derailleur and would assume you would actually have more protection compared to right foot forward riders.
I think you have it backwards regarding their argument. I think they are saying that left foot forward means your right is back, which would likely put it in the way of most danger-eating objects first. You are more aware of what might strike your foot/pedal and try to veer away. If you are right foot forward, nothing else stands in the way through the whole wheelbase, then smacks the der der.
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have...
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
Probably mostly because it isn't compatible with any frame that any of us own. It's always a challenge to get commitment from bike builders on things like this. They would need to invest a ton to support unproven technology.
Plus, the mech is divided into 2 parts, which likely creates design constraints for frame builders. Unsprung mass is about the same as conventional systems, so no win there, but it would likely be a win in terms of decreasing the chances of unintentional trail-side mech removal.
How wide is that frame around the GB? I'm curious if there is interference with body parts. Looks like it might be a challenge to clean after a race like last year's event in Les Gets, although perhaps more serviceable than conventional systems when riding through peanut butter.
Let’s just bring the Zerode g1 gear box design back. Someone make a lugged bike with DW dual chain and a Alfine di2 11speed
Let’s just bring the Zerode g1 gear box design back. Someone make a lugged bike with DW dual chain and a Alfine di2 11speed
Had no idea Shimano made an 11-speed Di2 Alfine hub. That's sick. The shift action on the cable operated Alfine hubs left a lot to be desired in sprinting situations. I wonder if the Di2 ones are a lot sharper and smoother to shift.
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have...
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased chainwrap on the cassette. Then for suspension design you're pretty limited in your ability to design it into different suspension platforms. As my boss is kinda over apt to say, the juice may not be worth the squeeze.
I think you have it backwards regarding their argument. I think they are saying that left foot forward means your right is back, which would likely...
I think you have it backwards regarding their argument. I think they are saying that left foot forward means your right is back, which would likely put it in the way of most danger-eating objects first. You are more aware of what might strike your foot/pedal and try to veer away. If you are right foot forward, nothing else stands in the way through the whole wheelbase, then smacks the der der.
Exactly what you said. Some people are just more aware of their surroundings regardless of which foot forward they ride for sure, but maybe we should make a poll with two questions, 1) have you destroyed mech and/or hanger in the past two months and 2) if you answered yes, which foot forward do you ride?
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have...
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased...
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased chainwrap on the cassette. Then for suspension design you're pretty limited in your ability to design it into different suspension platforms. As my boss is kinda over apt to say, the juice may not be worth the squeeze.
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't you massage it into a shape where the chain goes directly onto the front chainring and there's a sort of derailler cage with two pulleys doing the tensioning and handling chain length through the gears somewhere between the front ring and the cassette (ala what Pinion does with their tensioner at the end of the day)? And have the derailleur then mounted behind or below the axle, not in front of it?
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have...
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased...
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased chainwrap on the cassette. Then for suspension design you're pretty limited in your ability to design it into different suspension platforms. As my boss is kinda over apt to say, the juice may not be worth the squeeze.
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't...
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't you massage it into a shape where the chain goes directly onto the front chainring and there's a sort of derailler cage with two pulleys doing the tensioning and handling chain length through the gears somewhere between the front ring and the cassette (ala what Pinion does with their tensioner at the end of the day)? And have the derailleur then mounted behind or below the axle, not in front of it?
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear with another smaller derailleur? Same ratios but better weight distribution?
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear...
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear with another smaller derailleur? Same ratios but better weight distribution?
What if all the gears were in a container in the middle of the bike by your feet?
I'm waiting for drivetrain-free systems to catch on. Aaron Gwin demonstrated the benefits of pedal-free DH long ago, but sponsorship for that approach seems to be lacking. Imagine, no DR, no cassette, no chain, freedom to use any crank length or even pegs if you want.
Wasn't Zerode using GBs years before the Gates prize showed up.
Could you imagine a DH series with no pedaling allowed? I think they do that for the pump-track world series. We also have a chainless category for our local beer league DH series and it's the most fun.
10/10 would support a move to chainless DH races. Ha ha.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-remy-mortons-specialized-demo-…
Right foot forward and the only time I broke a derailleur was when I jumped and landed sideways when I was in the largest cog. The derailleur was pulled into the spokes and that was it. An old 9spd X9 derailleur.
What I have done multiple times is park the derailleur sideways into a rock, onto a wooden ledge, bent the hanger, etc. but always just straightened the hanger and rode on. For the past 7 years exclusively on X01 derailleurs (two separate ones on 2 separate bikes.
The prize is for the belt, not the gearbox. It just happens you need a gearbox if you want to run a belt.
460-500mm
single speed and internal gear hub guys are gonna be pissed at you for saying that!
I think they’ll be best served if nobody wins it. Right now we say their name every week. If someone finally scrapes out a win it’ll be the end of the story. Red Sox became really boring once they finally won.
Sure, but folks were suggesting that bikes might not use a belt if it weren't for the Gates prize. Zerode, as an example, was using them 4 years before Gates offered up the prize, so clearly, not the driver for them.
As mentioned a few times before, I think GBs and belt drives are an interesting solution for gravity sports. Unclear, in my mind at least, if they are definitively better than conventional drive systems, even in that area. It's pretty tough to decipher all of the politics and contractual obligations that might prevent some of the winningest DH teams from using them: Syndicate, Spec, FW, etc. Perhaps those teams just have the bucks to hire the fastest riders, and Gates would have already paid out the prize money if one of them changed teams.
There are racers on the WC DH running internally geared hubs or single speeds?!
Let's not forget that Gates is a HUGE company. The bike industry connection is certainly their smallest division. Their automotive and auto adjacent business revenues are likely 1000X what they see in the bike industry. Gates isn't going anywhere and we will be seeing further adoption of their products as they expand into more aspects of cycling.
Had a few beers, years ago with a major tire manufacturer sales rep. He talked of how the bicycle division was their highest margin division, but their gross sales dollars were smaller than their marketing expenses for the automotive division. Really put things in perspective of our industry's size.
I think you have it backwards regarding their argument. I think they are saying that left foot forward means your right is back, which would likely put it in the way of most danger-eating objects first. You are more aware of what might strike your foot/pedal and try to veer away. If you are right foot forward, nothing else stands in the way through the whole wheelbase, then smacks the der der.
Why haven't we seen more bikes with that Lal Supre Drive? I'd much rather have that than gear box or regular derailleur if I could have something that wasn't a short travel bike or a 40 lb nicolai.
Probably mostly because it isn't compatible with any frame that any of us own. It's always a challenge to get commitment from bike builders on things like this. They would need to invest a ton to support unproven technology.
Plus, the mech is divided into 2 parts, which likely creates design constraints for frame builders. Unsprung mass is about the same as conventional systems, so no win there, but it would likely be a win in terms of decreasing the chances of unintentional trail-side mech removal.
Let’s just bring the Zerode g1 gear box design back. Someone make a lugged bike with DW dual chain and a Alfine di2 11speed
How wide is that frame around the GB? I'm curious if there is interference with body parts. Looks like it might be a challenge to clean after a race like last year's event in Les Gets, although perhaps more serviceable than conventional systems when riding through peanut butter.
Is Cam Cole’s 2006 Junior World Champs win on a Lahar considered a win for a gearbox???
Technically a mid mounted Rohloff hub.
I’d say yes, but with everything else in here it’s probably debatable.
Had no idea Shimano made an 11-speed Di2 Alfine hub. That's sick. The shift action on the cable operated Alfine hubs left a lot to be desired in sprinting situations. I wonder if the Di2 ones are a lot sharper and smoother to shift.
I don't know, but in sport what happens to prize money is usually covered by the contract
F1 AND aerospace technology on a same product, that's one fast shock!
What reviews have been done haven't been particularly positive. It's an interesting concept, but as noted shifting is slow on the system due to the increased chainwrap on the cassette. Then for suspension design you're pretty limited in your ability to design it into different suspension platforms. As my boss is kinda over apt to say, the juice may not be worth the squeeze.
Probably tops out super fast yea.
How close was Reece to take belt and gearbox driven bike to the top step of the podium? Fuck the Jordan guy, I mean come on, play along.
Exactly what you said. Some people are just more aware of their surroundings regardless of which foot forward they ride for sure, but maybe we should make a poll with two questions, 1) have you destroyed mech and/or hanger in the past two months and 2) if you answered yes, which foot forward do you ride?
2nd place Andorra mens elite 🔥
Honestly I'm happy for Jordan. Guy had a rough year coming out of juniors after doing so well. Seems like such a nice kid too.
Stoked to see Reece's finish but Jordan gapped him... 2 second lead with timings that tight is wild!
Hope Reece or Hattie get the belted purse soon.
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't you massage it into a shape where the chain goes directly onto the front chainring and there's a sort of derailler cage with two pulleys doing the tensioning and handling chain length through the gears somewhere between the front ring and the cassette (ala what Pinion does with their tensioner at the end of the day)? And have the derailleur then mounted behind or below the axle, not in front of it?
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear with another smaller derailleur? Same ratios but better weight distribution?
What if all the gears were in a container in the middle of the bike by your feet?
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