I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?
I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..
Downhill bikes i guess, but they usually have super slack STAs which would affect the performance I am sure.
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.
Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...
Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?
They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one.
But it has to come with a prominent sticker at least, so it’s clear from the outside that this bike goes faster 😁
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too...
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.
Which would be the correct angle if a hit to the front wheel rotates the bike backwards.
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too...
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.
Which would be the correct angle if a hit to the front wheel rotates the bike backwards.
The head tube angle. The force rotates the bike the bike around its centre of mass from the head tube angle since the fork will compress and translate any force to it's angle.
Just ignore the rider mass, as the TMD's are there for chassis stability not rider. You've got arms and legs for that.
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?
I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!) His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.
Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers. I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?
I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once...
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!) His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.
Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers. I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.
I’d also imagine that you could even validate with sensors on the frame
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once...
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!) His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.
Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers. I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.
I am willing to accept the fact that a top level pro is able to pick up on subtle changes that I couldn't... I know some who tell me I'm pretty sensitive to suspension changes, so to say a rider who rides at a way higher level than I ever could may very easily feel something I'd miss doesn't seen crazy to me..
Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...
Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?
They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one.
I tested one made by CounterShox, but the way the Atherton frame, the seattube is kinked and the weight wasn’t low enough. Felt great on moderate grade trails, but once the trail got steep, it feels like it raised the Center of gravity too much because the weight was higher than the bars. I had better results with weight on BB on TMD mounted above the BB on lower part seat tube. A DH frame with straight seattube, and TMD at the very bottom could work, but it would have have to be custom made based on your Seatpost/frame height. Personally I was surprised to see Ronan mount it high on Seatpost. But I’m also surprised they they mount on rear axle(but I haven’t tried that yet), so could work better than I imagine.
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?
I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once...
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!) His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.
Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers. I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.
I’d also imagine that you could even validate with sensors on the frame
Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very noticeable with and without, easily could be detected on a blind test.
I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the same trail, ridden at the same speed if the the front wheel keeps tracking the ground. if the trail is ridden faster then the wheel acceleration should be higher. What I'd expect the TMD to do is transfer less of the wheel accelerations to the handlebars and rider but these figures may even show the opposite because the wheel accelerations have decreased more than the bar accelerations.
Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very...
Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very noticeable with and without, easily could be detected on a blind test.
From my understanding the difference of the graphs are mainly caused by the fact that the run with the countershock was shorter (the integral/area under the curves is smaller for countershock curves).
Kane also has a great point as to what you could expect when the TMD words as expected. But additionally you would have to keep in mind that only vertical accelerations are tracked here. It might be interesting so see if the other directions stay the same or not.
There were also an interesting discussion connected to this in a comment thread started by zoolandr in the pink bike article.
I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the...
I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the same trail, ridden at the same speed if the the front wheel keeps tracking the ground. if the trail is ridden faster then the wheel acceleration should be higher. What I'd expect the TMD to do is transfer less of the wheel accelerations to the handlebars and rider but these figures may even show the opposite because the wheel accelerations have decreased more than the bar accelerations.
Time for a TMD thread now please.But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s...
Time for a TMD thread now please.
But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s been caught riding it yet
Hopefully the D5 is coming as well, Troy Lee confirmed they were working on it on a podcast last year.
They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2...
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:
Looks the same around the BB... he's been on the seatstay pivot design for a while...
They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.
Both are 6-bars. What changing the pivot location does is change the braking (and antisquat to some degree) behaviour. That's why they flip-flop between them depending on rider preference. Maybe it's even connected to the search for compliance - the CS pivot chainstay are available in steel, the other pivot variant would require a more cumbersome steel part that would include the dropouts and brake mount.
They stopped making it last year actually. They put a longer travel Sight in its place. I have that Range and it’s just phenomenal. I’ve contemplated getting...
They stopped making it last year actually. They put a longer travel Sight in its place.
I have that Range and it’s just phenomenal. I’ve contemplated getting a Sight to replace it. Shed some weight and get some more playfulness. Not worth it to sell in this market, and it’s just too damn good… Probably going to put a dual crown on it since I’m not sure their downhill bike is ever going to materialize.
This bike is more like a DH rig to me. Put a cascade link on and it is a 200/200mm weapon.
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2...
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:
I'm almost certain, I think it might be their way of changing the braking characteristics a bit like how teams will mess with floating brake arms. Either that or they're testing shock leverage separate from axle path.
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?
I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.
But it has to come with a prominent sticker at least, so it’s clear from the outside that this bike goes faster 😁
Which would be the correct angle if a hit to the front wheel rotates the bike backwards.
The head tube angle. The force rotates the bike the bike around its centre of mass from the head tube angle since the fork will compress and translate any force to it's angle.
Just ignore the rider mass, as the TMD's are there for chassis stability not rider. You've got arms and legs for that.
You have mistaken my statement for a question.
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres. I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!) His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.
Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers. I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.
I’d also imagine that you could even validate with sensors on the frame
I am willing to accept the fact that a top level pro is able to pick up on subtle changes that I couldn't... I know some who tell me I'm pretty sensitive to suspension changes, so to say a rider who rides at a way higher level than I ever could may very easily feel something I'd miss doesn't seen crazy to me..
I tested one made by CounterShox, but the way the Atherton frame, the seattube is kinked and the weight wasn’t low enough. Felt great on moderate grade trails, but once the trail got steep, it feels like it raised the Center of gravity too much because the weight was higher than the bars. I had better results with weight on BB on TMD mounted above the BB on lower part seat tube. A DH frame with straight seattube, and TMD at the very bottom could work, but it would have have to be custom made based on your Seatpost/frame height. Personally I was surprised to see Ronan mount it high on Seatpost. But I’m also surprised they they mount on rear axle(but I haven’t tried that yet), so could work better than I imagine.
Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very noticeable with and without, easily could be detected on a blind test.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-countersycles-tuned-mass-dampe…
I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the same trail, ridden at the same speed if the the front wheel keeps tracking the ground. if the trail is ridden faster then the wheel acceleration should be higher. What I'd expect the TMD to do is transfer less of the wheel accelerations to the handlebars and rider but these figures may even show the opposite because the wheel accelerations have decreased more than the bar accelerations.
From my understanding the difference of the graphs are mainly caused by the fact that the run with the countershock was shorter (the integral/area under the curves is smaller for countershock curves).
Kane also has a great point as to what you could expect when the TMD words as expected. But additionally you would have to keep in mind that only vertical accelerations are tracked here. It might be interesting so see if the other directions stay the same or not.
There were also an interesting discussion connected to this in a comment thread started by zoolandr in the pink bike article.
Time for a TMD thread now please.
But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s been caught riding it yet
there is also one for the lowers:
https://www.bikemetrics.de/shop#!/Equalizer-Gravity/p/772086631
Just add more TMDs all over the bike and skip the extra weights? Smoothest DH bike ever! 😆
Creative bb weight packaging on Jackson’s bike
Also weight inserts inside the crank spindle
Gotta say, that's a really clean setup..
Hopefully the D5 is coming as well, Troy Lee confirmed they were working on it on a podcast last year.
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...
Looks like UDH and T-Type mech?
Pivot has moved up to the seat stay as well.
They've been flipping it up and down since the first prototypes.
They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:
Looks the same around the BB... he's been on the seatstay pivot design for a while...
Both are 6-bars. What changing the pivot location does is change the braking (and antisquat to some degree) behaviour. That's why they flip-flop between them depending on rider preference. Maybe it's even connected to the search for compliance - the CS pivot chainstay are available in steel, the other pivot variant would require a more cumbersome steel part that would include the dropouts and brake mount.
This bike is more like a DH rig to me. Put a cascade link on and it is a 200/200mm weapon.
I'm almost certain, I think it might be their way of changing the braking characteristics a bit like how teams will mess with floating brake arms. Either that or they're testing shock leverage separate from axle path.