MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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8/30/2025 7:36am
Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?

They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one. 

sethimus wrote:

but how would you sell that to a world of dropper seatpost users?

Integration. Put the shake weight INSIDE the dropper. Then you’ll also need the proprietary remote that raises and lowers AND turns the shake weight off and on. Like Flight Attendant. 

1
8/30/2025 7:41am
Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. (More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll...

Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. 

(More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll see myself out.)

TEAMROBOT wrote:

This location makes way more sense to me than at the end of the swingarm.

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?

They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one. 

Except most people aren't that convinced they actually do that much good anyway. So the main benefit to the consumer (bling factor and showing off in the lift line) would be nullified if it were concealed in a seatpost. 

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8/30/2025 7:53am

I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?

I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..

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1
nskerb
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Kelso, WA US
8/30/2025 9:19am
AgrAde wrote:

Downhill bikes i guess, but they usually have super slack STAs which would affect the performance I am sure.

Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.

2
Slonschtor
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Location
Berlin DE
8/30/2025 9:50am
Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. (More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll...

Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. 

(More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll see myself out.)

TEAMROBOT wrote:

This location makes way more sense to me than at the end of the swingarm.

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?

They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one. 

But it has to come with a prominent sticker at least, so it’s clear from the outside that this bike goes faster 😁

3
AgrAde
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8/30/2025 3:08pm
nskerb wrote:
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too...

Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.

Which would be the correct angle if a hit to the front wheel rotates the bike backwards.

1
8/30/2025 3:39pm
nskerb wrote:
Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too...

Well they are often mounted to/parallel with head tube angles which are like 63/62° most of the time. I can’t really see this angle being too drastically different.

AgrAde wrote:

Which would be the correct angle if a hit to the front wheel rotates the bike backwards.

The head tube angle. The force rotates the bike the bike around its centre of mass from the head tube angle since the fork will compress and translate any force to it's angle. 

Just ignore the rider mass, as the TMD's are there for chassis stability not rider. You've got arms and legs for that. 

AgrAde
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8/30/2025 3:45pm

You have mistaken my statement for a question.

2
boozed
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AU
8/30/2025 4:50pm
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...

I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?

I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..

Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!)  His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.

Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers.  I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.

3
seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA US
8/30/2025 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2025 5:47pm
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...

I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?

I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..

boozed wrote:
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once...

Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!)  His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.

Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers.  I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.

I’d also imagine that you could even validate with sensors on the frame

8/30/2025 9:32pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2025 9:49pm
boozed wrote:
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once...

Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!)  His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.

Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers.  I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.

I am willing to accept the fact that a top level pro is able to pick up on subtle changes that I couldn't... I know some who tell me I'm pretty sensitive to suspension changes, so to say a rider who rides at a way higher level than I ever could may very easily feel something I'd miss doesn't seen crazy to me..

2
8/30/2025 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2025 10:27pm
Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. (More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll...

Spotted over on Pinkbike -- Ronan Dunne running his tuned mass damper in a novel location. 

(More like a tuned ass damper, am I right? Sorry, I'll see myself out.)

TEAMROBOT wrote:

This location makes way more sense to me than at the end of the swingarm.

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at...

Can you imagine how many they could sell if these were just integrated into a seatpost?

They could make literally DOZENS of dollars. Every “fast” guy at the bike park would have one. 

I tested one made by CounterShox, but the way the Atherton frame, the seattube is kinked and the weight wasn’t low enough. Felt great on moderate grade trails, but once the trail got steep, it feels like it raised the Center of gravity too much because the weight was higher than the bars.  I had better results with weight on BB on TMD mounted above the BB on lower part seat tube. A DH frame with straight seattube, and TMD at the very bottom could work, but it would have have to be custom made based on your Seatpost/frame height. Personally I was surprised to see Ronan mount it high on Seatpost. But I’m also surprised they they mount on rear axle(but I haven’t tried that yet), so could work better than I imagine.

2
2
8/30/2025 10:24pm
I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to...

I can't help but wonder how much of the TMD is a placebo effect.. The Pink Bike article that left 2 riders not being able to tell a difference was interesting.. Factor in the mud fest they're dealing with this weekend combined with the wide variation off hits they see, what do you tune it for?

I think James Stewart summed it up best.. Racers are mental midgets. If they believe it's faster, it will be.. We've all heard Jordi talk about how simply wiping down a shock made it feel way better to some riders..

boozed wrote:
Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once...

Motor racing fans will probably have heard the story about Michael Schmacher being able to detect 0.5 psi changes in pressure in his tyres.  I once spoke to an F1 team employee who told me they had tested the idea on their driver, also a race winner and contemporary of Schumacher's but firmly in the "number two driver" category (no, not Webber!)  His feedback was very much more influenced by whether he was told the pressures had changed than whether they had changed.

Anyway these TMDs undoubtedly do more than snake oil such as the infamous anti-vibration stickers.  I would like to believe that the teams that are running them have done back to back blind testing on them, because they do have the potential to make things worse if they're not set up systematically, and they're not just a sticker you can forget about.

I’d also imagine that you could even validate with sensors on the frame

Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very noticeable with and without, easily could be detected on a blind test. 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-countersycles-tuned-mass-dampe…

IMG 8021IMG 8020.jpeg?VersionId=JWYb71Isg.uHr1cakYqr1YASBDhTv
5
kane
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Iederwangen CH
8/31/2025 12:49am

I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the same trail, ridden at the same speed if the the front wheel keeps tracking the ground. if the trail is ridden faster then the wheel acceleration should be higher. What I'd expect the TMD to do is transfer less of the wheel accelerations to the handlebars and rider but these figures may even show the opposite because the wheel accelerations have decreased more than the bar accelerations.

1
Knut00
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Augsburg DE
Fantasy
8/31/2025 1:24am
Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very...

Yes we did this test with 6-axis sensor on front axle and handlebar. It records 2000 points of data every second. To me it was very noticeable with and without, easily could be detected on a blind test. 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-countersycles-tuned-mass-dampe…

IMG 8021IMG 8020.jpeg?VersionId=JWYb71Isg.uHr1cakYqr1YASBDhTv

From my understanding the difference of the graphs are mainly caused by the fact that the run with the countershock was shorter (the integral/area under the curves is smaller for countershock curves).

Kane also has a great point as to what you could expect when the TMD words as expected. But additionally you would have to keep in mind that only vertical accelerations are tracked here. It might be interesting so see if the other directions stay the same or not.

There were also an interesting discussion connected to this in a comment thread started by zoolandr in the pink bike article.

1
TimBud
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GB
8/31/2025 1:37am

Time for a TMD thread now please.

But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s been caught riding it yet

10
1
sethimus
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CH
8/31/2025 7:29am
kane wrote:
I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the...

I'm not sure that data shows the TMD at the handlebar is working as expected. The accelerations at the axle should be the same for the same trail, ridden at the same speed if the the front wheel keeps tracking the ground. if the trail is ridden faster then the wheel acceleration should be higher. What I'd expect the TMD to do is transfer less of the wheel accelerations to the handlebars and rider but these figures may even show the opposite because the wheel accelerations have decreased more than the bar accelerations.

8/31/2025 8:12am

Just add more TMDs all over the bike and skip the extra weights?  Smoothest DH bike ever! 😆

2
8/31/2025 9:54am

Creative bb weight packaging on Jackson’s bike

IMG 8025IMG 8024.jpeg?VersionId=2W3xczYOM.b.j4qEUlEyrbVWIMG 8023
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8/31/2025 9:56am

Also weight inserts inside the crank spindle

IMG 8026
20
8/31/2025 10:44am

Gotta say, that's a really clean setup..

5
Yoda
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IT
Fantasy
8/31/2025 11:34am
TimBud wrote:
Time for a TMD thread now please.But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s...

Time for a TMD thread now please.

But here’s some actual gossip: apparently there’s a new TLD helmet on the way (think Fox Dropframe). Surprised no one’s been caught riding it yet

Hopefully the D5 is coming as well, Troy Lee confirmed they were working on it on a podcast last year.

1
8/31/2025 11:38am

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM
10
dolface
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8/31/2025 12:40pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM

Looks like UDH and T-Type mech?

2
8/31/2025 12:43pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM
dolface wrote:

Looks like UDH and T-Type mech?

Pivot has moved up to the seat stay as well.

2
Primoz
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SI
8/31/2025 1:56pm

They've been flipping it up and down since the first prototypes. 

2
8/31/2025 3:54pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM

They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.

2
TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
8/31/2025 4:58pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM

They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.

You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:

2
8/31/2025 5:19pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM

They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2...

You sure about that? I haven't seen a 4+2 modern Commencal Supreme. Also, we can't tell from this picture if Loris' new bike is a 4+2. The only way we'd know is if we could get a look at the BB area. If there's another link at the front of the chainstay, it's a 6 bar:

Looks the same around the BB... he's been on the seatstay pivot design for a while...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 8.18.14%E2%80%AFPM 0
3
Primoz
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4567
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Location
SI
8/31/2025 9:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2025 9:33pm
chriskief wrote:
Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Bit different rear end on Loris' Supreme...

Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 2.37.22%E2%80%AFPM

They're switching between 4+2 and 6 Bars a decent amount recently. Looks like a 4+2 with a UDH compatible dropout.

Both are 6-bars. What changing the pivot location does is change the braking (and antisquat to some degree) behaviour. That's why they flip-flop between them depending on rider preference. Maybe it's even connected to the search for compliance - the CS pivot chainstay are available in steel, the other pivot variant would require a more cumbersome steel part that would include the dropouts and brake mount.

3
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