MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Jakub_G
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353
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SK
6/30/2025 8:33am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2025 8:37am
Primoz wrote:
FWIW, front wheel loading and more upright positions or higher bars, I'm pretty sure there can be situations where higher bars will enable a rider to...

FWIW, front wheel loading and more upright positions or higher bars, I'm pretty sure there can be situations where higher bars will enable a rider to generate MORE front end grip (loading) than lower bars.

I've mentioned the skiing analogy - if you can't load the fronts of the skis, where do you need to raise the boot - at the rear or at the back? Common logic would say at the rear, to rotate you forwards. But in actuality it's the other way around. Raising the toes requires the skier to lean forwards to be balanced, loading up the fronts. Proof of this is standing on a 2x4 piece of wood with either toes or heels - standing on it with your heels will make you lean back, standing on it with your toes will cause you to lean forward.

Based on this analogy bars that are too low or too far forward will make the rider too outstreched with not enough support under the hands and cause the rider to pull back even further. Having the bars closer/higher will enable a more attacking position on a given bike.

Absolutely, if your bars are too low, you don't have confidence to load them and you will lean back...what I think people tend to miss is that the whole bike needs to work as a system, it you only just fit the bike with 50mm stem, slapping 15mm stem on it will make your rider space too short and it would be quite exhausting ( imagine doing pushup with hands at the level of a belly button) not easy right? If you have bike with long reach, you have more room to play with.

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Shinook
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Asheville, NC US
6/30/2025 8:47am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2025 8:47am
luckymixes wrote:

I also remember Gee Atherton using an ultra short stem years ago, only to crash a lot and go back to normal stems short after.

Brian Cahal's vid of him using the raised reversed stem also featured him washing out the front and eating dirt. You know it's something riders won't mess...

Brian Cahal's vid of him using the raised reversed stem also featured him washing out the front and eating dirt. 

You know it's something riders won't mess with when even the guy known for having a ridiculously high stack (Dak) runs a stem that roughly matches his offset. 

To me it seems like there's absolutely nothing to be gained from really short stems.

Not all short stems are like the raised reverse stem, that thing clearly works for him but I've yet to see anyone use it and think it worked out for them. 

The short stem like what Rulezman provided and in the photo from Hope is a bit different, it retains the super short stem but doesn't pull the bars back as far and neither have the absurd height. If you read Rulezman's approach, whether you agree with him or not, it seems the theory based on the bike's geometry accommodating it. If you just go and throw one on your bike, yea you might have issues, he seems to focus on it being more ideal for longer reach and esp longer chainstay bikes, encouraging users of the stem to size up at times when using it. It is meant to be part of an overall geometry solution not so much a drop on your bike and win, I think this is where people may have had issues. 

I actually have one but I've yet to use it for varying reasons, mainly that I went through a period where riding fell off and I haven't had a bike that I thought it would work well on yet. 

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AndehM
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El Granada, CA US
6/30/2025 9:06am

Brian Cahal also did a followup video where he tried the RR stem reversed (i.e. +15mm rather than -15mm), and said it felt better that way.  I can't remember exactly but pretty sure he still washed the front once with it like that.

I'm personally of the school of thought where I select stem length based on how it feels for steering speed as opposed to cockpit fit, then adjust bar and stack height to match across my bikes.  But then again, I also ride 3 bikes with very similar modern but not crazy reach and CS lengths.  I feel like some of these goofy stem setups come from making the bike geometry really excessively long in pursuit of stability, then losing handling and trying to back into that with the goofy stem.

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6/30/2025 9:45am

Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. 

They seem unlikely to work well as an add on to existing geometry that was designed around a normal stem length.

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chriskief
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New York, NY US
6/30/2025 9:54am
Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. They seem unlikely to work well as an add on...

Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. 

They seem unlikely to work well as an add on to existing geometry that was designed around a normal stem length.

5
ballz
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Ouagadougou EH
6/30/2025 10:02am
Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. They seem unlikely to work well as an add on...

Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. 

They seem unlikely to work well as an add on to existing geometry that was designed around a normal stem length.

chriskief wrote:

We have always been in 2014.

5
6/30/2025 10:13am
Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. They seem unlikely to work well as an add on...

Super short stems have the potential if the entire geometry of the bike was built around them. 

They seem unlikely to work well as an add on to existing geometry that was designed around a normal stem length.

chriskief wrote:

Everything is cyclical. 

1
seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA US
6/30/2025 10:37am
Primoz wrote:
FWIW, front wheel loading and more upright positions or higher bars, I'm pretty sure there can be situations where higher bars will enable a rider to...

FWIW, front wheel loading and more upright positions or higher bars, I'm pretty sure there can be situations where higher bars will enable a rider to generate MORE front end grip (loading) than lower bars.

I've mentioned the skiing analogy - if you can't load the fronts of the skis, where do you need to raise the boot - at the rear or at the back? Common logic would say at the rear, to rotate you forwards. But in actuality it's the other way around. Raising the toes requires the skier to lean forwards to be balanced, loading up the fronts. Proof of this is standing on a 2x4 piece of wood with either toes or heels - standing on it with your heels will make you lean back, standing on it with your toes will cause you to lean forward.

Based on this analogy bars that are too low or too far forward will make the rider too outstreched with not enough support under the hands and cause the rider to pull back even further. Having the bars closer/higher will enable a more attacking position on a given bike.

i mean youre not wrong but a skier still needs to push into the front of their boot. also not mentioned in the analogy is that lengthening the tails will lessen the forward weight bias needed to turn the ski.

if i have to weight the front end i want lower and longer for more stability. but if i want a short reach high stack for body position, i want longer CSs so that i dont have to lean precariously over the front to get that grip.

a lot of bike stuff (0 stem...) is trying to fix weight distribution and body position Part & Parcel, rather than approaching the whole system. i like that we're talking about mondraker because, as stated a few posts ago, they were really close to figuring this out over a decade ago, but they were missing the long CS piece. goes to show how precariously all of these pieces are balanced!

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sethimus
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6/30/2025 11:44am
Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using...

Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using the super short stem theory - cough *gamux, you’ll see it’s not exactly the most successful thing in the pits. 

Seems a strange design ethos.. to position myself further backwards to correct my weight bias that’s happened due to an extremely long chainstay I have designed; I then needed to utilise a novel stem to shorten everything up and position myself centrally! 
Or am I reading it incorrectly?  

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

3
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Evil96
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Portogruaro, VE IT
6/30/2025 11:48am
Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using...

Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using the super short stem theory - cough *gamux, you’ll see it’s not exactly the most successful thing in the pits. 

Seems a strange design ethos.. to position myself further backwards to correct my weight bias that’s happened due to an extremely long chainstay I have designed; I then needed to utilise a novel stem to shorten everything up and position myself centrally! 
Or am I reading it incorrectly?  

sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

On a bike that is long AF front and rear, to be noted

5
6/30/2025 2:32pm
Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using...

Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using the super short stem theory - cough *gamux, you’ll see it’s not exactly the most successful thing in the pits. 

Seems a strange design ethos.. to position myself further backwards to correct my weight bias that’s happened due to an extremely long chainstay I have designed; I then needed to utilise a novel stem to shorten everything up and position myself centrally! 
Or am I reading it incorrectly?  

sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah and she won last year on a trek, sooo maybe it’s more that she rips on a bike? 

36
6/30/2025 2:53pm
Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using...

Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using the super short stem theory - cough *gamux, you’ll see it’s not exactly the most successful thing in the pits. 

Seems a strange design ethos.. to position myself further backwards to correct my weight bias that’s happened due to an extremely long chainstay I have designed; I then needed to utilise a novel stem to shorten everything up and position myself centrally! 
Or am I reading it incorrectly?  

sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah and she won last year on a trek, sooo maybe it’s more that she rips on a bike? 

She has also won XC races and cyclocross races in the past.

I too think she's a ripper on a bike. I could probably give her my 120mm trail bike set up as it is for me right now and she'd podium an EDR.

Just reinforcing what you're saying: She rips regardless of her stem or chainstay length.

6
RaggedEdge
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Austin, TX US
6/30/2025 3:25pm
sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah and she won last year on a trek, sooo maybe it’s more that she rips on a bike? 

She has also won XC races and cyclocross races in the past.I too think she's a ripper on a bike. I could probably give her my...

She has also won XC races and cyclocross races in the past.

I too think she's a ripper on a bike. I could probably give her my 120mm trail bike set up as it is for me right now and she'd podium an EDR.

Just reinforcing what you're saying: She rips regardless of her stem or chainstay length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOg53i_68N8 They talk about the cockpit 6 minutes in. I was around for the early Mondraker days plus at least a decade. I love how the bikes have evolved and think this might come back with where geo is going. In a bike check she said that Reese gave it to her and it came off his ebike. 

1
haen
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CA US
6/30/2025 5:18pm
Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using...

Didn’t mondraker go down this road years ago only to become more moderate? And if you look at race results of the most recent people using the super short stem theory - cough *gamux, you’ll see it’s not exactly the most successful thing in the pits. 

Seems a strange design ethos.. to position myself further backwards to correct my weight bias that’s happened due to an extremely long chainstay I have designed; I then needed to utilise a novel stem to shorten everything up and position myself centrally! 
Or am I reading it incorrectly?  

sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah and she won last year on a trek, sooo maybe it’s more that she rips on a bike? 

Orrrrr maybe she just knows what she's doing and see's value in the stem...

Some serious mental gymnastics going on in here. 

3
6
6/30/2025 7:37pm
sethimus wrote:

Harriet Harnden won Pietra Ligure on the Rulezman stem. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah and she won last year on a trek, sooo maybe it’s more that she rips on a bike? 

haen wrote:

Orrrrr maybe she just knows what she's doing and see's value in the stem...

Some serious mental gymnastics going on in here. 

She’s on a bike that’s a size or even 2 sizes too big with a short stem to fix it. That’s all.  Yall are nuts short CS and short reach and small wheels are where it’s at 

1
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sethimus
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6/30/2025 10:04pm
She’s on a bike that’s a size or even 2 sizes too big with a short stem to fix it. That’s all.  Yall are nuts short...

She’s on a bike that’s a size or even 2 sizes too big with a short stem to fix it. That’s all.  Yall are nuts short CS and short reach and small wheels are where it’s at 

what if you are on a bike that’s 2 sizes too small for you with a long stem to fix it?

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1
TEAMROBOT
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Los Angeles, CA US
6/30/2025 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 6/30/2025 10:45pm
sethimus wrote:

what if you are on a bike that’s 2 sizes too small for you with a long stem to fix it?

10-guy-meme

41
Goupil
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Rennes FR
6/30/2025 11:27pm

Can't wait for Scott to release the first one piece handlebar/fork steerer so we don't have to worry about stems anymore ! 

7
boozed
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AU
7/1/2025 2:19am
Goupil wrote:

Can't wait for Scott to release the first one piece handlebar/fork steerer so we don't have to worry about stems anymore ! 

One day powder bed fusion manufacturing will be so good that Scott will be able to manufacture an entire bicycle as a single part.  Maybe.

6
7/1/2025 4:05am
She’s on a bike that’s a size or even 2 sizes too big with a short stem to fix it. That’s all.  Yall are nuts short...

She’s on a bike that’s a size or even 2 sizes too big with a short stem to fix it. That’s all.  Yall are nuts short CS and short reach and small wheels are where it’s at 

sethimus wrote:

what if you are on a bike that’s 2 sizes too small for you with a long stem to fix it?

You are a professional road rider that believes it will be more aero..

7
Johnboy
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7/31/2018
Location
AU
7/1/2025 6:43pm

I'm on a L 2018 Smuggler which came with a 40mm stem and 20mm rise (7° backsweep) bars. 

I'm now on 50mm rise, 10° backsweep bars on a 60mm stem. The increase in backsweep which is heaven for my wrists did result in a more cramped feeling "reach" hence the 60mm stem. 

Stem height is probably 5mm lower than what it was originally. 

3
1
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
7/1/2025 6:58pm
boozed wrote:

One day powder bed fusion manufacturing will be so good that Scott will be able to manufacture an entire bicycle as a single part.  Maybe.

Oh you have to change out your headset bearings? Thats stupid just throw the bike away and buy a whole new one 😃

7
seanfisseli
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Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/1/2025 10:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2025 12:12pm
boozed wrote:

One day powder bed fusion manufacturing will be so good that Scott will be able to manufacture an entire bicycle as a single part.  Maybe.

Oh you have to change out your headset bearings? Thats stupid just throw the bike away and buy a whole new one 😃

Yeah but they can just melt it down and print a new one

2
krabo83
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718
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12/26/2017
Location
AT
7/2/2025 12:40am

ah great, tech rumors turned into geo/stem length discussion again…🤣

20
Fred_Pop
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11/26/2017
Location
FR
7/2/2025 2:36pm
Primoz wrote:
What does running a stem that 'matches the fork offset' have anything to do with anything? This is one of the most WTF claims I have...

What does running a stem that 'matches the fork offset' have anything to do with anything? This is one of the most WTF claims I have heard regarding bikes and bike fits.

Where in relation to this offset is the tyre to ground contact patch? How does the handlebar to patch relation change relative to wheel size? Fork axle to crown? Dynamic sag? Travel position? Head angle?!

Most importantly, what does the position you attach your handlebars to have anything to do with riding dynamics when you can have multiples of 10 mm difference in handlebar setback (effective reach or whatever you want to call it) depending on handlebar geometry.

To get into a similar position running a 55 mm rise handlebar that I had only in 12/8° sweep resulted in me having to run a 70 mm stem to be in roughly the same position fore-aft as I was with a more normal 8/5° sweep handlebar on a 40 mm stem. Because the bars are made by having the backsweep swept BACK, they do not come forward and then back to have the same relative clamping to hand position.

Commenting on stem lengths should REALLY include handlebar geometry and also roll to have even a smidge of comparability between setups.

My opinion is that several people, including racers have tried it, and it led to crashes. I don't know the engineering or numbers behind it, and...

My opinion is that several people, including racers have tried it, and it led to crashes. I don't know the engineering or numbers behind it, and I don't need to, riders seem to crash more on shorter stems, I personally feel more comfortable on a 42.5mm stem than a 35mm stem. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Racers have crashed on short stems because they haven't used them with long chainstays. If you feel more comfortable on a 42,5mm stem then stick with that. I've tested -10, 10, 17 and 20mm in the last decade and I've settled on 20mm. My bike has 474mm chainstays and I have loads of front end grip.

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9
Kusa
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CH
7/2/2025 3:02pm
IMG 9203
12
1
7/2/2025 3:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2025 3:34pm
Kusa wrote:
IMG 9203

Its a good looking bike. 

And under Colognes it sure looks fast, given that hes coming from the Commencal, which everyone seems to think is the fastest bike on the circuit right now.   

It also appears to the the same "2008 demo" suspension design as the "new" Nukeproof haha. 

1
7
sethimus
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CH
7/2/2025 3:53pm
Its a good looking bike. And under Colognes it sure looks fast, given that hes coming from the Commencal, which everyone seems to think is the fastest...

Its a good looking bike. 

And under Colognes it sure looks fast, given that hes coming from the Commencal, which everyone seems to think is the fastest bike on the circuit right now.   

It also appears to the the same "2008 demo" suspension design as the "new" Nukeproof haha. 

Coulanges, the name you are looking for is Coulanges. He rides a bike for a living. 

Colognes. You wear those on the body to smell better. Know your French.

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