MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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dolface
Posts
1667
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
6/7/2025 7:01pm

Interesting tidbit from Dave Rome's interview w/ the XTR PM: the infamous pad rattle is caused by the pads hitting the retaining pin, not the caliper. New pads have an ovalized hole (so they can rock back and forth but not up and down) which supposedly fixes the issue.

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haen
Posts
105
Joined
12/3/2020
Location
CA US
6/7/2025 9:06pm
Pedal Bob wrote:
I see that he offers the FvAT/HSB option to this solution, but it says it's currently not available as a self-install kit. Do you have this in...

I see that he offers the FvAT/HSB option to this solution, but it says it's currently not available as a self-install kit. 

Do you have this in your fork, and if so, is it really needed(I'm a trail rider where the speed is slow most of the time, but also don't want to be negatively surprised when the front is pointing down again)?

I live abroad so I won't send the whole fork over there to have him install it because it will just add a lot more money to the total making it a no go.

Lastly, is the hybrid coil/air solution really a set and forget solution in practice(less maintenance)?

yzedf wrote:
I have it and I like it for those awkward huck to flat moments and a little extra headroom for making a mistake at speed. For...

I have it and I like it for those awkward huck to flat moments and a little extra headroom for making a mistake at speed. For something that would’ve been a harsh bottom out before I still have 5-10mm of travel to play with. His setup rewards riding hard and fast, it’s not so comfy for general riding in my experience. 

Included with the parts was a setup sheet with the base settings as well as advice on setup based on changes in temperature, riding in the wet, as well as what to do for arm pump or front end nervousness. 
 

Personally I prefer a little faster rebound, otherwise everything else setting wise is the same for me from what he suggested. I’m not a racer. 

Like I said, be honest about what you want and how you ride and you should be pretty good straight away. 

Pedal Bob wrote:
I did evaluate Smashpot as it is fairly inexpensive for an even bigger change, but my impression is that you end up with too big of...

I did evaluate Smashpot as it is fairly inexpensive for an even bigger change, but my impression is that you end up with too big of a change in geo most of the time and that is a downside. I like the front to be as tall as possible especially when it is steep and I'm riding down, I just want the functionality of soaking up hits to be a lot smoother. I'm sure Smashpot is very comfy, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the best solution.

I just felt that it's either Smashpot or Avalanche hybrid air/coil solution as the compromise and that the latter must be a lot better than stock if it's tuned and set up for what I personally ride the most. 

It also has to be said that I will change out an air shock in the rear for a much better shock which is coil, so the total change front to back will make more sense and be more noticeable. 

I got the Smashpot v2 on my enduro bike and just increased the travel from 170 to 180 to compensate. 

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Pedal Bob
Posts
230
Joined
1/30/2025
Location
H NO
6/7/2025 11:52pm
haen wrote:

I got the Smashpot v2 on my enduro bike and just increased the travel from 170 to 180 to compensate. 

My bike is a Pivot Switchblade V2 with 142/160mm travel. I do ride it in high position all the time given how slack the rear end is which just doesn't work for tech climbs.

How will I know if bumping up the suspension 10mm in front will be ok or not in terms of what the frame is designed for, as well as knowing how it would feel with a 142/170mm bias? Is the idea that the front will generally sit lower when riding compared to an air fork set up to sit higher and the 10mm bump will equal out some of that change?

 

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5
b.ay
Posts
19
Joined
3/27/2021
Location
Mid Hudson DE
6/7/2025 11:54pm
ballz wrote:

Have you considered the Push 9.1? Btw. 36 with Avy hybrid coil setup is as heavy as the 9.1.

Pedal Bob wrote:

Push 9.1 is 2000$. I'm trying to find the most bang for buck combo(front + rear suspension) and not the best performing fork money no object. 

Hey,

Have u considered the Luft Fusion Upgrade? U can get a lot of config. like 170 mm Fox 36, 140 mm Zeb.

https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/article/1698372-luft-fusion-air-spring-fo…

For rear shock I would go dhx2. Because there are very good prices on last year models models, like 350 bucks here in EU and performance doesn't need any explanation. Uber plush and wide range of adjustability.

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Pedal Bob
Posts
230
Joined
1/30/2025
Location
H NO
6/8/2025 1:33am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2025 1:36am
b.ay wrote:
Hey,Have u considered the Luft Fusion Upgrade? U can get a lot of config. like 170 mm Fox 36, 140 mm Zeb.https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/article/1698372-luft-fusion-air-spring-for-fox-and-rockshox-forksFor rear shock I would...

Hey,

Have u considered the Luft Fusion Upgrade? U can get a lot of config. like 170 mm Fox 36, 140 mm Zeb.

https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/article/1698372-luft-fusion-air-spring-fo…

For rear shock I would go dhx2. Because there are very good prices on last year models models, like 350 bucks here in EU and performance doesn't need any explanation. Uber plush and wide range of adjustability.

That Luft Fusion looks interesting. I'm just a bit worried seeing he mentions "It requires about 30% more air pressure." The first customer he talks of has increased the pressure a minimum of 84% from his stock setup( https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/fox-36-grip-2-my-2019.871779/page-163#p… ). The next person I found increased it by about 54%, so not only is there too much variation but there is too big of a difference from the claimed increase by the maker of this product. 

Personally I need to do a bit more research on this because I have not heard of it till now.

When it comes to most bang for buck combo I personally am talking of with future potential. That's why I would like to invest in a more premium product in the rear to start(so I would want to own it for longer), and compromise a bit in the front. That way if I feel like an Intend Hero would be the next thing the year after, I at least only have to focus on the front end which makes it one amount instead of + rear end...

I have no want in a Fox product upgrade. I gradually just try to upgrade the bike I own to how I wish it would be from day one. I have no intention of selling this bike, so for me these upgrades are investments. Bang for buck to me doesn't mean lowest pricetag. Price per year is the actual price we pay, and if I purchase a premium product I would like to own for longer, that initial price reduces over time naturally. That's why I have no desire for the typical off the shelf product.

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TimBud
Posts
530
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
6/8/2025 3:16am

Can we move this to the suspension thread please 

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f.i.t.nj
Posts
43
Joined
3/7/2020
Location
Englishtown, NJ US
6/8/2025 5:22am
sethimus wrote:

Reckon it's a Williams Racing Products ratchet

juliusk wrote:
That has a lot shorter engagment than in the video. About the same as a standard 36T Ratchet.

That has a lot shorter engagment than in the video. About the same as a standard 36T Ratchet.

I have the WRP zero drag kit. That's exactly how mine engages. 

2
6/8/2025 5:52am

Reckon it's a Williams Racing Products ratchet

juliusk wrote:
That has a lot shorter engagment than in the video. About the same as a standard 36T Ratchet.

That has a lot shorter engagment than in the video. About the same as a standard 36T Ratchet.

f.i.t.nj wrote:

I have the WRP zero drag kit. That's exactly how mine engages. 

I thought the WRP has instant engagement? But will disengage the paws with a slight back pedal

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dolface
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Location
CA US
6/8/2025 7:47am

"In almost all riding situations, the mere act of stopping pedalling and the momentum from the cassette is enough to kick the system into its disengaged “zero drag” mode."

"The hub still engages with what’s effectively the same 36T ratchet rings as a modern DT hub."

https://escapecollective.com/review-wrp-zero-drag-kit-a-silent-upgrade-…

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Roots_rider
Posts
85
Joined
5/8/2010
Location
Jackson, WY US
6/8/2025 8:13am
SnusDog wrote:

Also def a few people riding the hidden the hidden shakeweights / rimpact tmd - at least Troy, Craik, and Breeden that i know of

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Agreed, it’s super hard to tell what you can’t see with mass dampers. Saw lots of number plates with a big vertical fold/bulge in the middle...

Agreed, it’s super hard to tell what you can’t see with mass dampers. Saw lots of number plates with a big vertical fold/bulge in the middle, so I couldn’t actually spot a TMD but it looked like it would be there. I didn’t include those as a TMD bike in my final count.

Similarly, added mass is almost impossible to tell from your eyeballs on an Orbea or Scott. I remember a few years back Brendan was stuffing lead weights in his crank spindles. Hard to see that with your eyeballs.

As mentioned by someone else, same with the new DT hub internals from WRP. Saw a lot of DT hubs yesterday, but who knows what’s in them?

I didn’t see any particular pattern in who was running PK devices, like low pivot or high pivot. I was surprised that none of the Giant Factory riders had one, because I think of Maestro/DW Link bikes as traditionally having higher AS levels. Wondering if that was a choice by the riders, but because zero of them had it, I wonder if the higher ups at Giant or Shimano told the riders no, or if they just can’t because they are on the old Saint crank. I did see a rider with XT cranks on their DH race bike specifically so they could mount a PK device, which was interesting. 

Was going to mention the DT internals from Mic. He stated that multiple riders are running them, but didn’t point towards who. 

As for the steer tube shake weights, I think you need to just start causally sliding your finger into some tubes….definitely keep a tally for reactions to that one please.  

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6/8/2025 9:37am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2025 9:38am
I'm a little surprised at the cost of the new Shimano drivetrain. I would consider it to replace my XO1 AXS shifter and derailleur (and move that...

I'm a little surprised at the cost of the new Shimano drivetrain. 

I would consider it to replace my XO1 AXS shifter and derailleur (and move that to another bike) that I've been running with an XT chain and cassette. 

Almost $1,000 for shifter and derailleur is higher than I was expecting. 

Dogboy wrote:

I'll be interested to see how the XT pricing compares. We'll know soon enough and it's a more comparable kit to X0.

yup because I just got a GX derailleur, cassette, chain, chainring and 160 cranks for $750, granted I found a code that seems like it probably shouldn't have worked and mysteriously is no longer available on the site.... 

i have to say, i like the short cage option on the xtr stuff. 

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TEAMROBOT
Posts
1374
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
6/8/2025 10:43am
Was going to mention the DT internals from Mic. He stated that multiple riders are running them, but didn’t point towards who. As for the steer tube...

Was going to mention the DT internals from Mic. He stated that multiple riders are running them, but didn’t point towards who. 

As for the steer tube shake weights, I think you need to just start causally sliding your finger into some tubes….definitely keep a tally for reactions to that one please.  

lol so good. I expect reactions would be... unique.

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Fantaman
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Location
NL
6/9/2025 3:11am
505465036 9077985195637176 6482331877796490470 n

 

DVO's most recent post on their Instagram page saying ''Should we bring back the OG?'' 

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acambo
Posts
19
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Location
AU
6/9/2025 4:43am
sethimus wrote:

Reckon it's a Williams Racing Products ratchet

Mic commented on that post and claimed he has nothing to do with whatever is going on in that dt hub. Something dt is likely working...

Mic commented on that post and claimed he has nothing to do with whatever is going on in that dt hub. Something dt is likely working on

Spoke with the mechanic for a certain yt mob member at Cannonball about the WRP freehub kit and they said that DT had something similar in the works for them later in the year.

5
veefour
Posts
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Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
6/9/2025 8:08am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2025 8:11am
Was going to mention the DT internals from Mic. He stated that multiple riders are running them, but didn’t point towards who. As for the steer tube...

Was going to mention the DT internals from Mic. He stated that multiple riders are running them, but didn’t point towards who. 

As for the steer tube shake weights, I think you need to just start causally sliding your finger into some tubes….definitely keep a tally for reactions to that one please.  

I dunno man, talk of anyone surreptitiously sliding body parts into anything at a World Cup can lead to huge amounts of online speculation.

3
Suns_PSD
Posts
357
Joined
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Location
Austin, TX US
6/9/2025 10:55am
Splayleg wrote:
I’m up in the ochain gang too. OO and some of the other mob were on ochain but are not this year. Pretty sure I read...

I’m up in the ochain gang too. OO and some of the other mob were on ochain but are not this year. Pretty sure I read on here about a dt Swiss sidekick style hub so maybe he’s on that. Can anyone confirm the dt system or was I just tripping?

krabo83 wrote:
must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how...

must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how expensive that e13 sidekick hub is i think o-chain might be the better and service-friendlier option (no new wheel to lace up).

boozed wrote:

O-chain is certainly the trail-friendly choice with the option of external control over the float.

I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all.

 

Anyways, here is what E-13 says on the topic of crank based solutions vs. hub: There is a misconception that the effects of pedal kickback are something always perceptible to the rider. Pedal kickback and its knock-on effects dramatically degrade suspension performance even when riders don’t feel it happening. Sidekick is the first and only solution that isolates the drivetrain from suspension while freewheeling. This eliminates pedal kickback in nearly all riding situations, silences chain and freewheel clatter, and provides a whisper-quiet freehub ratchet. Other crank spider-based solutions attempt to eliminate pedal kickback but do not disconnect the drivetrain from the frame suspension. In fact, while helpful in damping pedal kickback forces, with this type of solution, kickback, and chain vibration must happen for the device to function.

 

Beyond that, I would say that the Sidekick hubs appear to be very reliable and also roll very freely, where-as the O'Chain seems to be pretty maintenance intensive. I plan to build a new set of wheels based around the SideKick hubs next time, but it'll be on an e-bike. I'll just stick with my good old Carbon Ti hubs for my trail bike.

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1
6/9/2025 11:04am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2025 11:05am
krabo83 wrote:
must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how...

must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how expensive that e13 sidekick hub is i think o-chain might be the better and service-friendlier option (no new wheel to lace up).

boozed wrote:

O-chain is certainly the trail-friendly choice with the option of external control over the float.

Suns_PSD wrote:
I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all. Anyways...

I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all.

 

Anyways, here is what E-13 says on the topic of crank based solutions vs. hub: There is a misconception that the effects of pedal kickback are something always perceptible to the rider. Pedal kickback and its knock-on effects dramatically degrade suspension performance even when riders don’t feel it happening. Sidekick is the first and only solution that isolates the drivetrain from suspension while freewheeling. This eliminates pedal kickback in nearly all riding situations, silences chain and freewheel clatter, and provides a whisper-quiet freehub ratchet. Other crank spider-based solutions attempt to eliminate pedal kickback but do not disconnect the drivetrain from the frame suspension. In fact, while helpful in damping pedal kickback forces, with this type of solution, kickback, and chain vibration must happen for the device to function.

 

Beyond that, I would say that the Sidekick hubs appear to be very reliable and also roll very freely, where-as the O'Chain seems to be pretty maintenance intensive. I plan to build a new set of wheels based around the SideKick hubs next time, but it'll be on an e-bike. I'll just stick with my good old Carbon Ti hubs for my trail bike.

"Sidekick is the first and only solution..."
Gunna point out that Tairin has been doing this for a few years prior to e13.  Except Tairin is perfectly silent as it pulls back ALL the pawls (or star ratchet) instead of using one to help reengage.

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6/9/2025 12:56pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all. Anyways...

I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all.

 

Anyways, here is what E-13 says on the topic of crank based solutions vs. hub: There is a misconception that the effects of pedal kickback are something always perceptible to the rider. Pedal kickback and its knock-on effects dramatically degrade suspension performance even when riders don’t feel it happening. Sidekick is the first and only solution that isolates the drivetrain from suspension while freewheeling. This eliminates pedal kickback in nearly all riding situations, silences chain and freewheel clatter, and provides a whisper-quiet freehub ratchet. Other crank spider-based solutions attempt to eliminate pedal kickback but do not disconnect the drivetrain from the frame suspension. In fact, while helpful in damping pedal kickback forces, with this type of solution, kickback, and chain vibration must happen for the device to function.

 

Beyond that, I would say that the Sidekick hubs appear to be very reliable and also roll very freely, where-as the O'Chain seems to be pretty maintenance intensive. I plan to build a new set of wheels based around the SideKick hubs next time, but it'll be on an e-bike. I'll just stick with my good old Carbon Ti hubs for my trail bike.

I love the idea that bike performance/suspension can be "dramatically degraded", but the rider can't feel it happening. What? 

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2
piratetrails
Posts
282
Joined
8/28/2021
Location
Arcadia, VA US
6/9/2025 1:22pm
krabo83 wrote:
must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how...

must have been me who spilled the beans. yes, DT is working on a sidekick style hub as i have been informed, but looking at how expensive that e13 sidekick hub is i think o-chain might be the better and service-friendlier option (no new wheel to lace up).

boozed wrote:

O-chain is certainly the trail-friendly choice with the option of external control over the float.

Suns_PSD wrote:
I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all. Anyways...

I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all.

 

Anyways, here is what E-13 says on the topic of crank based solutions vs. hub: There is a misconception that the effects of pedal kickback are something always perceptible to the rider. Pedal kickback and its knock-on effects dramatically degrade suspension performance even when riders don’t feel it happening. Sidekick is the first and only solution that isolates the drivetrain from suspension while freewheeling. This eliminates pedal kickback in nearly all riding situations, silences chain and freewheel clatter, and provides a whisper-quiet freehub ratchet. Other crank spider-based solutions attempt to eliminate pedal kickback but do not disconnect the drivetrain from the frame suspension. In fact, while helpful in damping pedal kickback forces, with this type of solution, kickback, and chain vibration must happen for the device to function.

 

Beyond that, I would say that the Sidekick hubs appear to be very reliable and also roll very freely, where-as the O'Chain seems to be pretty maintenance intensive. I plan to build a new set of wheels based around the SideKick hubs next time, but it'll be on an e-bike. I'll just stick with my good old Carbon Ti hubs for my trail bike.

O-chain is not maintenance intensive in my experience. I'm on a used one for the past 2 park seasons and have had no reason to open it up yet. If the DT option performs like the Sidekick then I could see myself running that and selling the O-Chain to fund putting the DT Sidekick on all my bikes.

5
Losifer
Posts
407
Joined
9/12/2017
Location
Sandia Park, NM US
6/9/2025 2:12pm
tsewhsoj wrote:
Heard about an updated transition spur recently, similar design language as the new sentinel, still has a flex stay and seems to be 120/120. No word...

Heard about an updated transition spur recently, similar design language as the new sentinel, still has a flex stay and seems to be 120/120. No word on release date.

Definitely interested...

2
dolface
Posts
1667
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
6/9/2025 2:16pm

Jesse hinting at something in development from RS and/or Canyon?

"There’s a lot of work that happens behind the scenes and while we all love the work, it’s always nice to reward it. Maybe one day you’ll see what I’m talking about 👀"

3
6/9/2025 2:47pm
dolface wrote:
Jesse hinting at something in development from RS and/or Canyon?"There’s a lot of work that happens behind the scenes and while we all love the work...

Jesse hinting at something in development from RS and/or Canyon?

"There’s a lot of work that happens behind the scenes and while we all love the work, it’s always nice to reward it. Maybe one day you’ll see what I’m talking about 👀"

Maybe. Could also just be talking about the amount of time and effort that riders/mechanics/companies put into training, tuning, & testing. 

6
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
6/9/2025 3:16pm
IMG 4010
17
storm.racing
Posts
300
Joined
2/15/2022
Location
Silverton, CO US
6/9/2025 5:28pm
jsray wrote:
IMG 4010

Been waiting years for more info on that fork (shock too)
Cool to see something!

4
Suns_PSD
Posts
357
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
6/9/2025 6:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2025 6:26pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all. Anyways...

I've been watching the 'pedal-kickback space' and trying to determine which is the best route to go for me on my next bike, if at all.

 

Anyways, here is what E-13 says on the topic of crank based solutions vs. hub: There is a misconception that the effects of pedal kickback are something always perceptible to the rider. Pedal kickback and its knock-on effects dramatically degrade suspension performance even when riders don’t feel it happening. Sidekick is the first and only solution that isolates the drivetrain from suspension while freewheeling. This eliminates pedal kickback in nearly all riding situations, silences chain and freewheel clatter, and provides a whisper-quiet freehub ratchet. Other crank spider-based solutions attempt to eliminate pedal kickback but do not disconnect the drivetrain from the frame suspension. In fact, while helpful in damping pedal kickback forces, with this type of solution, kickback, and chain vibration must happen for the device to function.

 

Beyond that, I would say that the Sidekick hubs appear to be very reliable and also roll very freely, where-as the O'Chain seems to be pretty maintenance intensive. I plan to build a new set of wheels based around the SideKick hubs next time, but it'll be on an e-bike. I'll just stick with my good old Carbon Ti hubs for my trail bike.

I love the idea that bike performance/suspension can be "dramatically degraded", but the rider can't feel it happening. What? 

I took it as felt in the form of pedal kickback, but point taken.

 

PS. Love the Username!

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