MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
Finkill
Posts
226
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
5/9/2025 5:50am
Dave_Camp wrote:
I think a lot of the issue is oem concern about weight and stack height.  Make the crown height 2x taller and add wall thickness to crown...

I think a lot of the issue is oem concern about weight and stack height. 
 

Make the crown height 2x taller and add wall thickness to crown, steerer and stanchions I’ll bet you solve the problem completely.   

Easier said than done though.  Forks would be taller and heavier for same travel. 
 

Finkill wrote:
My warranty replacement Zeb CSU crown is thicker around the steerer tube and the flat area around the crown race is now wider than the headset...

My warranty replacement Zeb CSU crown is thicker around the steerer tube and the flat area around the crown race is now wider than the headset cup. Hopefully this makes it less prone to creaking, but making the interfaces taller would be way more effective as you say. 

HexonJuan wrote:
Wonder if they're using the same crown as used on their 1.8 bottom steerers. From a mfg standpoint, having one crown to rule em all makes...

Wonder if they're using the same crown as used on their 1.8 bottom steerers. From a mfg standpoint, having one crown to rule em all makes a lotta sense financially.

Possibly it's the 1.8 crown forging, it's not massively different to the original one so hard to know without being able to compare. As you say, simplifying the number of crown forgings makes good sense. 

2
5/9/2025 5:58am
Finkill wrote:

£85 for a bolt. 

correct

Finkill wrote:
£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging...

£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging value proposition for a relatively simple turned metal part. Appreciate we are talking about a part for a £1000 titanium crankset. 

600£ gets me one single prototype bolt with two threadbolcks to tighten both bolts to 55Nm for 200 times before increasing torque by 5Nm every 10 cycles until the max torque of 100Nm is reached and very sore arms have to give up.
The price is just high enough that I don't loose to much money without even including prototypes and my time. Comparing Swiss made small batch parts with shimano SLX is kind of rude but mathematically you are not wrong.
 

4
2
Finkill
Posts
226
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
5/9/2025 6:07am

correct

Finkill wrote:
£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging...

£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging value proposition for a relatively simple turned metal part. Appreciate we are talking about a part for a £1000 titanium crankset. 

600£ gets me one single prototype bolt with two threadbolcks to tighten both bolts to 55Nm for 200 times before increasing torque by 5Nm every 10...

600£ gets me one single prototype bolt with two threadbolcks to tighten both bolts to 55Nm for 200 times before increasing torque by 5Nm every 10 cycles until the max torque of 100Nm is reached and very sore arms have to give up.
The price is just high enough that I don't loose to much money without even including prototypes and my time. Comparing Swiss made small batch parts with shimano SLX is kind of rude but mathematically you are not wrong.
 

Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of the bolt and it's good to know you are pricing it in a way that covers your costs and makes it viable to produce. 

Personally I'm a little concerned with the trend towards bikes being more and more expensive and would love to see more effort being put into value and utility oriented product improvements rather than the high end stuff that tends to grab attention and headlines, while offering  little actual innovation.

Those SLX cranks are as good as anyone would ever need and will last a long long time. 

8
5/9/2025 6:35am
Finkill wrote:
£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging...

£55 gets me a whole SLX crankset with a chainring and I have £20 left for a few pints at the pub. That is a challenging value proposition for a relatively simple turned metal part. Appreciate we are talking about a part for a £1000 titanium crankset. 

600£ gets me one single prototype bolt with two threadbolcks to tighten both bolts to 55Nm for 200 times before increasing torque by 5Nm every 10...

600£ gets me one single prototype bolt with two threadbolcks to tighten both bolts to 55Nm for 200 times before increasing torque by 5Nm every 10 cycles until the max torque of 100Nm is reached and very sore arms have to give up.
The price is just high enough that I don't loose to much money without even including prototypes and my time. Comparing Swiss made small batch parts with shimano SLX is kind of rude but mathematically you are not wrong.
 

Finkill wrote:
Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of...

Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of the bolt and it's good to know you are pricing it in a way that covers your costs and makes it viable to produce. 

Personally I'm a little concerned with the trend towards bikes being more and more expensive and would love to see more effort being put into value and utility oriented product improvements rather than the high end stuff that tends to grab attention and headlines, while offering  little actual innovation.

Those SLX cranks are as good as anyone would ever need and will last a long long time. 

Apparently this is what people want but you can easily find very affordable stuff used or even new. I personally ride a starling and the price of 2k for a made in uk steel frame with 7 years of warranty is amazing. 
If you want a cheap crankbolt for your slx, we offer one too lol

5
5/9/2025 7:15am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 7:19am
Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several...

Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several frames are pretty interesting (ok, the high- and mid-pivot ones 😃), with bombastically-low prices, and one cannot check their details or try to buy. It’s like “see, here’s some pretty good product for an absolute bargain of a price… yeah, you can’t order, you can only watch pics!” 😅

sethimus wrote:

are you gen z? do you need help in how to use a search engine?

May be, just may be, I’ve already tried to search and if we don’t count Extension Bikes, who have almost all the info regarding their new enduro bike uploaded on their website, all the others don’t have websites or share no additional details in their Instagrams. Think Wissco can be found on some sort of a website, but it’s all in Chinese with no translate option, so it’s as if there’s no website. Seemed only logical to ask the people that were there physically to share something more! Wink Given that some prices are shared under the photos here, while there aren’t any in the websites (whoever has one anyway) makes me think Vital’s members might have some additional info - only asking them to share more! Cause, let’s face it, a high-pivot enduro frame MY2025 for less than a 1000$ brand new is a crazy bargain! 

5
Shinook
Posts
141
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Asheville, NC US
5/9/2025 7:26am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 7:26am

Every 18 months I poke CC about a steel Ewing... tooling is the big issue.

Translated, this likely means ORA doesn't want to do it and they probably can't find financial justification to work it out. I gather ORA is somewhat selective on what they do and Cane Creek isn't going to do this themselves. The typical market for eeWings probably wouldn't buy into them either and I'm not certain (but could be wrong) they could do it cheap enough over what they are already doing with titanium. 

If you want something like this, my assumption would be Starling would be your best bet. They seem more likely to do stuff like this with higher emphasis on steel, but they'd similarly use ORA and probably be told the same answer. Personally I'd love it if they did.

dolface
Posts
1667
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
5/9/2025 7:40am
Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several...

Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several frames are pretty interesting (ok, the high- and mid-pivot ones 😃), with bombastically-low prices, and one cannot check their details or try to buy. It’s like “see, here’s some pretty good product for an absolute bargain of a price… yeah, you can’t order, you can only watch pics!” 😅

sethimus wrote:

are you gen z? do you need help in how to use a search engine?

Do you wake up every day wondering "who can I be a d1ck to on the Vital Forums today"?

Assuming good intent and extending a modicum of kindness takes almost no effort; give it a try!

43
Primoz
Posts
4539
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/9/2025 7:41am

Every 18 months I poke CC about a steel Ewing... tooling is the big issue.

Shinook wrote:
Translated, this likely means ORA doesn't want to do it and they probably can't find financial justification to work it out. I gather ORA is somewhat...

Translated, this likely means ORA doesn't want to do it and they probably can't find financial justification to work it out. I gather ORA is somewhat selective on what they do and Cane Creek isn't going to do this themselves. The typical market for eeWings probably wouldn't buy into them either and I'm not certain (but could be wrong) they could do it cheap enough over what they are already doing with titanium. 

If you want something like this, my assumption would be Starling would be your best bet. They seem more likely to do stuff like this with higher emphasis on steel, but they'd similarly use ORA and probably be told the same answer. Personally I'd love it if they did.

ORA? 

4
Javigutz
Posts
43
Joined
10/6/2022
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
5/9/2025 7:46am

Every 18 months I poke CC about a steel Ewing... tooling is the big issue.

Shinook wrote:
Translated, this likely means ORA doesn't want to do it and they probably can't find financial justification to work it out. I gather ORA is somewhat...

Translated, this likely means ORA doesn't want to do it and they probably can't find financial justification to work it out. I gather ORA is somewhat selective on what they do and Cane Creek isn't going to do this themselves. The typical market for eeWings probably wouldn't buy into them either and I'm not certain (but could be wrong) they could do it cheap enough over what they are already doing with titanium. 

If you want something like this, my assumption would be Starling would be your best bet. They seem more likely to do stuff like this with higher emphasis on steel, but they'd similarly use ORA and probably be told the same answer. Personally I'd love it if they did.

Primoz wrote:

ORA? 

5
1llumA
Posts
213
Joined
3/11/2020
Location
CA
5/9/2025 7:58am

Cyber Cycles in Germany does make a tubular steel crank with sram 3 bolt chainring attachment. Cheaper than EEwings but not really budget compared to RF turbine or Shimano SLX/XT crank. 

https://www.cybercycles.de/en/cranks/cyber-cranks-or

6
jonkranked
Posts
1185
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
5/9/2025 8:07am
dolface wrote:
Do you wake up every day wondering "who can I be a d1ck to on the Vital Forums today"?Assuming good intent and extending a modicum of...

Do you wake up every day wondering "who can I be a d1ck to on the Vital Forums today"?

Assuming good intent and extending a modicum of kindness takes almost no effort; give it a try!

sadly not limited to vital......

10
Finkill
Posts
226
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
5/9/2025 8:16am
1llumA wrote:
Cyber Cycles in Germany does make a tubular steel crank with sram 3 bolt chainring attachment. Cheaper than EEwings but not really budget compared to RF...

Cyber Cycles in Germany does make a tubular steel crank with sram 3 bolt chainring attachment. Cheaper than EEwings but not really budget compared to RF turbine or Shimano SLX/XT crank. 

https://www.cybercycles.de/en/cranks/cyber-cranks-or

Good find, had not seen these before, I like that they use a 24mm spindle also. 

4
krabo83
Posts
717
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
5/9/2025 9:02am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 9:03am

a little birdy told me about a new dt swiss hub/system coming probably in september working similar to the e13 sidekick hub.

should also be retrofit able to current gen dt hubs.

25
NY_Star
Posts
94
Joined
11/28/2010
Location
US
5/9/2025 9:38am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 12:16pm

Any guesses on new DH bikes being at Poland? Maybe a production specialized?

2
Jotegr
Posts
342
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
5/9/2025 9:50am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 9:50am
Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several...

Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several frames are pretty interesting (ok, the high- and mid-pivot ones 😃), with bombastically-low prices, and one cannot check their details or try to buy. It’s like “see, here’s some pretty good product for an absolute bargain of a price… yeah, you can’t order, you can only watch pics!” 😅

sethimus wrote:

are you gen z? do you need help in how to use a search engine?

In fairness, information on a lot of this stuff is weapons-grade unobtanium in the western world. Even on a forum dedicated to sharing information and building up direct to consumer Chinese bikes, which has sniffed out a number of these from various platforms prior to the trade show, real information has been extremely scarce. I don't think Weibo chats and the like are indexed in our search engines. 

Javigutz
Posts
43
Joined
10/6/2022
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
5/9/2025 10:30am
krabo83 wrote:
a little birdy told me about a new dt swiss hub/system coming probably in september working similar to the e13 sidekick hub.should also be retrofit able...

a little birdy told me about a new dt swiss hub/system coming probably in september working similar to the e13 sidekick hub.

should also be retrofit able to current gen dt hubs.

Hope to be retrofitted to the crappy EXP hub that I have and failed twice 

2
krabo83
Posts
717
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
5/9/2025 11:19am
krabo83 wrote:
a little birdy told me about a new dt swiss hub/system coming probably in september working similar to the e13 sidekick hub.should also be retrofit able...

a little birdy told me about a new dt swiss hub/system coming probably in september working similar to the e13 sidekick hub.

should also be retrofit able to current gen dt hubs.

Javigutz wrote:

Hope to be retrofitted to the crappy EXP hub that I have and failed twice 

i have a 240 rear hub before EXP and it still runs flawlessly, but i wouldn't count on it that older generations will be upgradeable.

1
Shinook
Posts
141
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Asheville, NC US
5/9/2025 12:35pm
Primoz wrote:

ORA? 

Sorry, I should've been clearer. ORA does a lot of manufacturing of ti and steel in Taiwan. IIRC Cane Creek uses them to manufacturer eeWings and Starling uses them for various things like their stems and rear triangles. 

5
Digit Bikes
Posts
180
Joined
9/22/2021
Location
Irvine, CA US
5/9/2025 1:19pm
Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several...

Would also be cool if some more info is shared regarding the products, or at least if there are websites of the manufacturers. For example, several frames are pretty interesting (ok, the high- and mid-pivot ones 😃), with bombastically-low prices, and one cannot check their details or try to buy. It’s like “see, here’s some pretty good product for an absolute bargain of a price… yeah, you can’t order, you can only watch pics!” 😅

sethimus wrote:

are you gen z? do you need help in how to use a search engine?

May be, just may be, I’ve already tried to search and if we don’t count Extension Bikes, who have almost all the info regarding their new...

May be, just may be, I’ve already tried to search and if we don’t count Extension Bikes, who have almost all the info regarding their new enduro bike uploaded on their website, all the others don’t have websites or share no additional details in their Instagrams. Think Wissco can be found on some sort of a website, but it’s all in Chinese with no translate option, so it’s as if there’s no website. Seemed only logical to ask the people that were there physically to share something more! Wink Given that some prices are shared under the photos here, while there aren’t any in the websites (whoever has one anyway) makes me think Vital’s members might have some additional info - only asking them to share more! Cause, let’s face it, a high-pivot enduro frame MY2025 for less than a 1000$ brand new is a crazy bargain! 

It's primarily an industry trade show. Many of these bikes are samples to demonstrate a factories capabilities to the bike companies we know. The bike companies that we know might then make their designs at that factory, or use the factories in-house design/engineering capabilities. These bikes might not be for sale to the public, there might not be additional public facing information.

9
ShapeThings
Posts
115
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
5/9/2025 1:32pm
Finkill wrote:
Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of...

Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of the bolt and it's good to know you are pricing it in a way that covers your costs and makes it viable to produce. 

Personally I'm a little concerned with the trend towards bikes being more and more expensive and would love to see more effort being put into value and utility oriented product improvements rather than the high end stuff that tends to grab attention and headlines, while offering  little actual innovation.

Those SLX cranks are as good as anyone would ever need and will last a long long time. 

I had eewings — they were beautiful — but sold them and went back to SLX cranks. Kept warping my chainring  for some reason. Was able to sell them for what I bought them for at the tail end of Covid, no regrets. Love SLX. Rumors Shimano they might kill it off? 

3
Finkill
Posts
226
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
5/9/2025 1:40pm
Finkill wrote:
Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of...

Not trying to be rude, just highlighting the cost differential and relative value proposition. The average EE Wings customer is probably okay with the cost of the bolt and it's good to know you are pricing it in a way that covers your costs and makes it viable to produce. 

Personally I'm a little concerned with the trend towards bikes being more and more expensive and would love to see more effort being put into value and utility oriented product improvements rather than the high end stuff that tends to grab attention and headlines, while offering  little actual innovation.

Those SLX cranks are as good as anyone would ever need and will last a long long time. 

I had eewings — they were beautiful — but sold them and went back to SLX cranks. Kept warping my chainring  for some reason. Was able...

I had eewings — they were beautiful — but sold them and went back to SLX cranks. Kept warping my chainring  for some reason. Was able to sell them for what I bought them for at the tail end of Covid, no regrets. Love SLX. Rumors Shimano they might kill it off? 

Yeah it sounds that way, the new stuff will be Deore, XT and XTR only. Hopefully the Deore cranks get bumped up to the hollow forged arms for the new release. The various generations of Deore cranks have always been good, but the solid arms add some weight. 

2
1llumA
Posts
213
Joined
3/11/2020
Location
CA
5/9/2025 2:17pm

At the very least, current gravel 12 speed stuff is either XT or SLX cassette, chains and slightly modified derailleur so i don't think SLX will be completely gone in the near future.

2
justshrddin
Posts
11
Joined
1/29/2025
Location
Australia, SA AU
5/9/2025 6:10pm

Can we please keep it to "MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation" please

10
17
seanfisseli
Posts
562
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
5/9/2025 7:22pm

Can we please keep it to "MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation" please

We talk about the tech and the rumors until there is new tech and rumors to talk about. I don’t understand what you haters are getting confused about. Thread derailleurs are part of the game, baby.

29
5
Jotegr
Posts
342
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
5/9/2025 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 8:56pm

"It's rumored that SLX is going to be dropped next year guys"

"Please keep it to MTB Tech Rumors"

32
1
AgrAde
Posts
196
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
AL US
5/9/2025 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 10:20pm
We talk about the tech and the rumors until there is new tech and rumors to talk about. I don’t understand what you haters are getting...

We talk about the tech and the rumors until there is new tech and rumors to talk about. I don’t understand what you haters are getting confused about. Thread derailleurs are part of the game, baby.

No chat and no discussion please, I prefer my social media experience to be unsociable, impersonal, and completely lacking in any perspective. This thread says its just for rumors and so only rumors should ever be posted here.

 

🤡

13
10
seanfisseli
Posts
562
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
5/9/2025 10:17pm

Haven't seen the new Bonnell brought up. I wouldn't post anything about it here except, and I can't believe I am typing this, Sam Hill is riding it at a bike park in one of their new promo vids. I hope all you class 3 haters are wearing your diapers because you are about to poop yourself:

2
15
AgrAde
Posts
196
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
AL US
5/9/2025 10:29pm

I love Sam's riding but didn't need a couple minutes in the middle of him riding down a road failing to pop manuals.

They possibly could have toned down the BWEEEEEeeeeeeeEEEEE         eeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEE

8
Jotegr
Posts
342
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
5/9/2025 10:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2025 10:57pm
Haven't seen the new Bonnell brought up. I wouldn't post anything about it here except, and I can't believe I am typing this, Sam Hill is...

Haven't seen the new Bonnell brought up. I wouldn't post anything about it here except, and I can't believe I am typing this, Sam Hill is riding it at a bike park in one of their new promo vids. I hope all you class 3 haters are wearing your diapers because you are about to poop yourself:

You'd think "Video of Sam Hill on a Motorcycle" would be amazing, but somehow that thing made one of the greatest riders of all time look positively underwhelming. 

 

And I have nothing against ebikes. Oh well, get your bag Sam. You earned it. 

13
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.

The Latest