E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment

3/25/2025 4:11am

3kg just in the frame? Must be the components too. I think for big and heavy people who are fit the higher weight might be not that much of an issue. 

For choosing the right emtb the weight, fitness, technical ability of the rider plus the terrain has to be taken into consideration more.

For example my sister would benefit from a light emtb as she was only able to buy a fairly heavy bike during the covid stock issues. 

sethimus
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3/25/2025 1:06pm
ebruner wrote:
Speaking of the transition regulator... I was pretty excited about the way Transition went about this one because I assumed that they had used the same...

Speaking of the transition regulator... I was pretty excited about the way Transition went about this one because I assumed that they had used the same front triangle for the SX motor version as the CX.  I've thought for a while now, that the bike industry has too many skews for oem mfg's and bike shops to be successful.  I thought maybe this would be the first of a few domino's that would fall where brands would have the ability to have the same frame serve both the light weight, reduced power segment as well as the full weight, full power segment.  Being able to order/procure a crap load of frames and then be nimble with regards to the motor power/builds seemed like a great way to protect the brand and the bike shops from a very fast evolving and developing market.  It's pretty hard right now, to look at the emtb segment and make a prediction on if SLs are still going to propagate the market, or if the technology is going to mean that full power motors/bikes with battery capacity and de-tuning at the path forward.  Felt like transition was onto something here.

AAAAANNNNDDD then I found out that the front triangles are completely different and the downtubes have been shaped to fit the specific battery sizing of the 400wh/600wh.  Obviously, they are painted differently because they have either SX/CX painted into the frame after the model designation.  

I digress... pretty hard or product managers to be designing based on an emtb market 24-36 months from now.  I feel like a common frame with fork in the road for battery and firmware tuning to determine SL vs full power is a way to get certainty on where the market is going, and flexibility for consumers.  

Cool bike, but man... feels like a missed opportunity for a very nimble product line.  

m1 bikes does this, but the sx motor is a little less wide than the cx, same hole patterns. you need to use some spacers to fit the sx in the same cx frame

brash
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3/25/2025 1:30pm
tabletop84 wrote:
3kg just in the frame? Must be the components too. I think for big and heavy people who are fit the higher weight might be not...

3kg just in the frame? Must be the components too. I think for big and heavy people who are fit the higher weight might be not that much of an issue. 

For choosing the right emtb the weight, fitness, technical ability of the rider plus the terrain has to be taken into consideration more.

For example my sister would benefit from a light emtb as she was only able to buy a fairly heavy bike during the covid stock issues. 

had a bit of a think about this last night, same everything except Dave doesn't have cushcore in the rear like me and he runs Conti Tyres to my Maxxis. Besides that, only diff is his frame is carbon and he has the bigger 900w battery! 

You got to witness this alloy frame, it's insanely over the top lol. I've cracked EVERY frame I've ridden besides this one.

You are right, we are both tall dudes, can muscle these things around OK, although 462mm chainstays are good and bad in ways. 

3/25/2025 1:49pm
AndehM wrote:
Levo rumors (heard from a guy who ran into a review website guy riding one in Santa Cruz):  800 wh battery, more torque (I heard 110...

Levo rumors (heard from a guy who ran into a review website guy riding one in Santa Cruz):  800 wh battery, more torque (I heard 110 on race spec, 100 on normal), battery is loaded from side panel, and there's a little storage compartment above it just behind the head tube.  The guy I talked to said it looked ugly. 

I can't get with the ugly rumours. Going off their recent design language, it's going to look like a chunkier Stumpy, which is entirely fine

AndehM
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3/25/2025 2:40pm
AndehM wrote:
Levo rumors (heard from a guy who ran into a review website guy riding one in Santa Cruz):  800 wh battery, more torque (I heard 110...

Levo rumors (heard from a guy who ran into a review website guy riding one in Santa Cruz):  800 wh battery, more torque (I heard 110 on race spec, 100 on normal), battery is loaded from side panel, and there's a little storage compartment above it just behind the head tube.  The guy I talked to said it looked ugly. 

I can't get with the ugly rumours. Going off their recent design language, it's going to look like a chunkier Stumpy, which is entirely fine

Yeah, I didn't see it and the guy I was talking to didn't elaborate.  We'll find out in a few days I guess.  My guess is that it'll look kinda pregnant due to big fat Trek-esque downtube from the giant battery, but skinny top tube and rear triangle because Spec is obsessed with light weight.

Suns_PSD
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3/26/2025 7:38am

Those are nice upgrades, but the F60 needs access to more of that 450 watts boost function (which rarely can be turned on btw) full time.

sluette
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3/26/2025 10:28pm

At the moment Specialized has taken all Levos off the German website... the wait seems to be slowly coming to an end... 👍

sethimus
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3/27/2025 3:15am
sluette wrote:

At the moment Specialized has taken all Levos off the German website... the wait seems to be slowly coming to an end... 👍

same in switzerland, only sl and kids models left

4/2/2025 5:38pm

Max Beaupre posted this on his IG. If I’m not mistaken ARI doesn’t currently have any E-Bikes with a Bosch motor. My guess is updated timp peak with the new Bosch motor

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4/4/2025 6:54am

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with GPS/activity tracking/power meter/etc? 

AndehM
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4/4/2025 8:03am
saskskier wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with...

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with GPS/activity tracking/power meter/etc? 

What do you mean by partnered with?  With many motor systems you can pair the motor with your head unit and see battery %, rider power, power level, etc.  Brose/Specialized plays very nicely with both Garmin and Wahoo.  Fazua works well with Garmin but not Wahoo.  Bosch is the outlier in that it's a walled garden and you can't access any of the data streams without buying an aftermarket hack chip.  I haven't owned a Shimano, Yamaha, or TQ so can't speak to them.

O1D4
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4/4/2025 9:53am
saskskier wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with...

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with GPS/activity tracking/power meter/etc? 

Doesn't the DJI Avinox have integrated GPS, Accelerometers etc for full tracking of all sorts of specs?

brash
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4/4/2025 1:38pm
saskskier wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with...

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with GPS/activity tracking/power meter/etc? 

AndehM wrote:
What do you mean by partnered with?  With many motor systems you can pair the motor with your head unit and see battery %, rider power...

What do you mean by partnered with?  With many motor systems you can pair the motor with your head unit and see battery %, rider power, power level, etc.  Brose/Specialized plays very nicely with both Garmin and Wahoo.  Fazua works well with Garmin but not Wahoo.  Bosch is the outlier in that it's a walled garden and you can't access any of the data streams without buying an aftermarket hack chip.  I haven't owned a Shimano, Yamaha, or TQ so can't speak to them.

you can output STEPS (Shimano) data onto garmins. One useful one was actually outputting battery as a percentage instead of the vague 5 bar thing.

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ebruner
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4/8/2025 10:26am

Upcoming bullit is not a well kept secret.  Some un-secured shopify stores allow the photos to come up in google images.  Should be released within the next week or so from what I've heard.  

GX Axs in Teal.

Bullit Teal

X0 Build in Black

bullit black.jpg?VersionId=7Z481KbNVkg572
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4/8/2025 11:06am
ebruner wrote:
Upcoming bullit is not a well kept secret.  Some un-secured shopify stores allow the photos to come up in google images.  Should be released within the...

Upcoming bullit is not a well kept secret.  Some un-secured shopify stores allow the photos to come up in google images.  Should be released within the next week or so from what I've heard.  

GX Axs in Teal.

Bullit Teal

X0 Build in Black

bullit black.jpg?VersionId=7Z481KbNVkg572

Crabs 🦀 all the way down 

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COsby638
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4/16/2025 9:54am
saskskier wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with...

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any reason bike companies haven't partnered with Garmin/Wahoo/etc to make an integrated head unit with GPS/activity tracking/power meter/etc? 

Trek pairs with kamoot. You can download rides and directions will appear on the display.   (You have to have the connect module and subscriptions to bosch flow+ and kamoot)

4/17/2025 5:20am

The problem with this approach is the redunance with a smartphone or gps unit carried by almost all riders. So a head unit like this would be less flexible than a head unit like a phone or external gps that you can swap with bikes instead of having it fixed at one bike. Toptube mount of a display is also inferior to a device mounted at the stem/bar area with adjustable mounting angle. 

It would be nice if there was some monkey link mount that would power the phone from the main battery. 

JVP
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5/1/2025 10:21am

Well the race to moto these is on, which sucks. I've ridden exclusively e-bikes for 2 years due to injury/surgery, so not saying this as a hater, but as a long-time trail builder/advocate. 

I'd like to see some large jurisdiction clamp down on specs. Limit peak, momentary torque to 85Nm (plenty!) and peak output to 650 watts (plenty!). Require that if it's going to be sold here and has pedals, it must be limited to the Class 1 specs. Sorry, you don't need to go 50kph/30mph on an e-bike. You don't need to soft pedal up a 20% grade. Get the moto you actually want. I'm not sure how to pull this off, game theory is a MFer, and clearly the masses just want a moto they can lift into the truck and ride on sidewalks. /rant

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Suns_PSD
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5/1/2025 11:25am

Bosch is saying that they are sticking to 750W, so 1 hp. If they didn't do something the market share losses were going to really add up and I feel that's a reasonable place to be.

 

They also made some serious technical improvements with the E-mtb+ mode.

 

I've been shopping my next e-bike very carefully. The list started off quite large but is now down to just a Regulator with the CX-R motor. Hopefully Transition offers it so that I can get the bike ordered.

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lando
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5/1/2025 1:18pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
Bosch is saying that they are sticking to 750W, so 1 hp. If they didn't do something the market share losses were going to really add...

Bosch is saying that they are sticking to 750W, so 1 hp. If they didn't do something the market share losses were going to really add up and I feel that's a reasonable place to be.

 

They also made some serious technical improvements with the E-mtb+ mode.

 

I've been shopping my next e-bike very carefully. The list started off quite large but is now down to just a Regulator with the CX-R motor. Hopefully Transition offers it so that I can get the bike ordered.

On the nsmb write up about the race motor, Transition demoed a Regulator with the new race motor, which seems like a one-off. But at least we know that Transition is aware of the new motor and has played around with it.

brash
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5/1/2025 2:58pm
JVP wrote:
Well the race to moto these is on, which sucks. I've ridden exclusively e-bikes for 2 years due to injury/surgery, so not saying this as a...

Well the race to moto these is on, which sucks. I've ridden exclusively e-bikes for 2 years due to injury/surgery, so not saying this as a hater, but as a long-time trail builder/advocate. 

I'd like to see some large jurisdiction clamp down on specs. Limit peak, momentary torque to 85Nm (plenty!) and peak output to 650 watts (plenty!). Require that if it's going to be sold here and has pedals, it must be limited to the Class 1 specs. Sorry, you don't need to go 50kph/30mph on an e-bike. You don't need to soft pedal up a 20% grade. Get the moto you actually want. I'm not sure how to pull this off, game theory is a MFer, and clearly the masses just want a moto they can lift into the truck and ride on sidewalks. /rant

yep have to agree, this arms race is the wrong direction.

On the trail, EP8 motor in "trail" mode is sufficient for me, when I get tired after riding, I'll ride home on Boost to the pub/home where there again is ample power to literally barely pedal and go 32kph.

Bring the weight down before making them more powerful. I suppose the Amflow has done this but it's not a build I would ride without breaking a lot of components.

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lando
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5/1/2025 4:25pm

Yeah, but that Unno with the Avinox looks pretttty prime…

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grinch
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5/2/2025 6:01am
JVP wrote:
Well the race to moto these is on, which sucks. I've ridden exclusively e-bikes for 2 years due to injury/surgery, so not saying this as a...

Well the race to moto these is on, which sucks. I've ridden exclusively e-bikes for 2 years due to injury/surgery, so not saying this as a hater, but as a long-time trail builder/advocate. 

I'd like to see some large jurisdiction clamp down on specs. Limit peak, momentary torque to 85Nm (plenty!) and peak output to 650 watts (plenty!). Require that if it's going to be sold here and has pedals, it must be limited to the Class 1 specs. Sorry, you don't need to go 50kph/30mph on an e-bike. You don't need to soft pedal up a 20% grade. Get the moto you actually want. I'm not sure how to pull this off, game theory is a MFer, and clearly the masses just want a moto they can lift into the truck and ride on sidewalks. /rant

Youve ridden an ebike for 2 yrs and still dont know that no matter how many watts and nm's there are the cut off is still 20mph/32kph on any class 1 emtb?

 That being said i suspect we've reached the limit. The extra nm and watts will enable you to climb a bit faster or climb more technical trail but i think we're at the end of the traction/power ratio. What the exact number is i'll reserve judgement until i try it. 

 Im still on a 70nm e8000 and having fun and that allows me to see that an 85nm/600w would be useful and shouldnt add to any trail conflict. After that i'd want a day on a 750w or a 1000w. 

 Also with that kind of power you'll need a massive battery and extra heavy parts and frame to bikes already at their comfortable limit. I like the idea of sub 50lbs, super enduro travel,  85-100nm,.with a slimmer downtube 600w battery for a triple clamp fork and have the option of an extender or 2

 Im boost all day until i crawl home in eco

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brash
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5/2/2025 4:44pm
lando wrote:

Yeah, but that Unno with the Avinox looks pretttty prime…

when I win the lottery, there will be signs Smile I'd definitely love an Unno.

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