MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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2/18/2025 11:38am
Fantaman wrote:

They could put a belt on in place of the short chain and scoop up the belted purse no problem with Loic on the bike. 

9
sethimus
Posts
875
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
2/18/2025 11:43am
segamethod wrote:
Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers...

Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers decent value.

Oso - Ibis Cycles Inc.

image 207.png?VersionId=whqTEoeWPiUBT

Is it the gen 5 motor?

segamethod wrote:

Gen 4

Front page of Vital has the press release... lol: Ibis Launches the Oso 1.1 - Mountain Bike Press Release - Vital MTB

lol, DOA

2
2/18/2025 11:54am
Fantaman wrote:

I spy with my little eye, a jackshaft

1
Digit Bikes
Posts
180
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9/22/2021
Location
Irvine, CA US
2/18/2025 11:58am
Fantaman wrote:

I spy with my little eye, a jackshaft

I'd assumed the second chain was on the non-drive side.

1
bermed
Posts
80
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6/28/2023
Location
Boston, MA US
2/18/2025 11:59am
schowny wrote:
Taken from Ben’s most recent instagram post.Looks like the new reverb battery hides just under the seat away from the sides when in the dropped position.Also...

Taken from Ben’s most recent instagram post.

Looks like the new reverb battery hides just under the seat away from the sides when in the dropped position.

Also somewhat of different view of the code / maven callipers (not rounded like production more boxy).

94DF25DA-964B-4CCB-8C07-11BA210B022CA5110F84-58A1-4383-9BD4-D8C0781C8CB8.jpeg?VersionId=z0QDFPO.r4E.eLS
alannz wrote:

Could be the new SRAM Motive brakes, but hard to tell from Ben's pictures.

I wonder if existing Level levers could be paired to these new calipers...

2/18/2025 12:06pm
Fantaman wrote:

I spy with my little eye, a jackshaft

I'd assumed the second chain was on the non-drive side.

Could be hidden by a 3d printed fairing? I never had Specialized down as a high pivot company though.

3
2/18/2025 12:07pm

They could put a belt on in place of the short chain and scoop up the belted purse no problem with Loic on the bike. 

Likely a small belt drive or gearbox going on there. Rather than 2-chainz setup like Pivot's bike. I enhanced the image a bit and there's no visible second chain on the exterior. 

1
2/18/2025 12:07pm
bermed wrote:

I wonder if existing Level levers could be paired to these new calipers...

Yes, that was shown in the link yesterday from the XCO race. 

2
1
alannz
Posts
50
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Location
California, CA US
2/18/2025 12:15pm
schowny wrote:
Taken from Ben’s most recent instagram post.Looks like the new reverb battery hides just under the seat away from the sides when in the dropped position.Also...

Taken from Ben’s most recent instagram post.

Looks like the new reverb battery hides just under the seat away from the sides when in the dropped position.

Also somewhat of different view of the code / maven callipers (not rounded like production more boxy).

94DF25DA-964B-4CCB-8C07-11BA210B022CA5110F84-58A1-4383-9BD4-D8C0781C8CB8.jpeg?VersionId=z0QDFPO.r4E.eLS
alannz wrote:

Could be the new SRAM Motive brakes, but hard to tell from Ben's pictures.

bermed wrote:

I wonder if existing Level levers could be paired to these new calipers...

The Motive brakes are probably also Mineral Oil so I don’t think the seals/internals for SRAM’s DOT brakes will work unfortunately 🙁

4
TEAMROBOT
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1372
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
2/18/2025 12:36pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

12
MrDuck
Posts
71
Joined
2/2/2021
Location
CA
2/18/2025 1:05pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

I love Pete's bits. Absolute legend.. I broke my SECOND axle in a month in my DT350 on a Saturday before leaving for a month long BC cup trip. A few texts later, I'm picking up a custom stainless steel axle on a nice Sunday morning.

To further derail thread into a rumor about innovative bleeding..when the current gen Shimano brakes came out I worked in shops and did a lot of brake work. I gave their top-down bleed a try on my own bike. Just let the fluid run from the bleed cup, close the system, do the "zip tie"(use a toe strap m8) situation overnight, pump the lever a few times, remove the cup and I usually don't need to bleed my brake until I break a frame and have to route it. Haven't tried it with Mavens, but absolutely would try.

 

I'll see myself out until I innovate.

9
2/18/2025 1:06pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

There's a "piston massage" process that seems to be important.

Dario mentions it on the pinkypod. Two other reviewers in the mtb-o-sphere mention disliking the brakes with one mentioning "a bleed (from SRAM) that didn't seem to get all the air out." After bleeding with the piston massage those reviewers liked them a lot.

Worth looking up the process (it doesn't seem to be a time-heavy step, just important) and giving it another try, probably!

7
Digit Bikes
Posts
180
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Location
Irvine, CA US
2/18/2025 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 1:13pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

The ziptie the lever overnight trick works because of increased pressure (not vacuum). The pressure squeezes any air bubbles which allows them (being smaller) to more easily rise up past fluid in the hose. Conversely, bleeding with a vaccum may actually make the bubbles less likely to rise.

Flicking the levers does something similar - shrinking the bubbles momentarily which can help them to detatch from the hose wall (and start moving or pass into the reservoir).

IME the weakest link when trying to vacuum bleed a brake is where the barb on a bleed fitting goes into the clear hose; a vacuum can pull air bubbles into the system through those cracks (very bad, the opposite of the intent of bleeeding), pressure might cause seeping leaks (not as bad, mop it up with a rag).

In the real world if you struggle to achieve good bleeds in just a few minutes, improved technique and practice will likely help more than anything. Having a vacuum bleeder won't mitigate poor technique, it will take longer to set up, cost more and might suck bubbles in to the system. 

Let's continue this conversation over here: vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/nerding-out-brakes-shall-we-not-another-tech-deraliment

9
1
2/18/2025 1:20pm
segamethod wrote:
Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers...

Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers decent value.

Oso - Ibis Cycles Inc.

image 207.png?VersionId=whqTEoeWPiUBT

Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.
at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are just to small...(115-130ht, 635-650 stack eta)

trails have evolved so much, especially since 29'ers became a thing it's time to ride bikes that are big enough without letting this stupid chainstay length thing get to long.

 

2
17
2/18/2025 1:20pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

There's a "piston massage" process that seems to be important.Dario mentions it on the pinkypod. Two other reviewers in the mtb-o-sphere mention disliking the brakes with...

There's a "piston massage" process that seems to be important.

Dario mentions it on the pinkypod. Two other reviewers in the mtb-o-sphere mention disliking the brakes with one mentioning "a bleed (from SRAM) that didn't seem to get all the air out." After bleeding with the piston massage those reviewers liked them a lot.

Worth looking up the process (it doesn't seem to be a time-heavy step, just important) and giving it another try, probably!

I recommend some type of "piston massage" process on any hydraulic brake - will be slightly different for 2-pot vs 4-pot and mineral vs DOT but its good practice and I've used it on all kinds of brands over the years

9
2/18/2025 1:28pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
This is getting dangerously close to a brake forum comment, but I think the reason you wouldn't see a vacuum bleeder for brakes is that the...

This is getting dangerously close to a brake forum comment, but I think the reason you wouldn't see a vacuum bleeder for brakes is that the seals are designed to seal against positive pressure, but not against significant negative pressure. I've been testing Mavens and DB8's for the last 6 months and, even though the official SRAM mineral oil bleed procedure recommends drawing a vacuum using the Pro Bleed Kit syringe, I've stopped doing that part of the bleed process because I'm able to draw basically an endless amount of air out of my lines, at the lever or at the caliper, by pulling a significant vacuum. I think the seals are just letting more air in, so I've started bleeding with positive pressure only and that's been working A LOT better. My two cents. Also possible that I'm doing something else wrong, but yes I did try switching syringes, bleed fittings, etc and kept producing endless air bubbles.

Make sure you torque the barb/olive to correct torque and dont use the sram bleed kit. the bit that goes into the lever leaks air.

I've installed probably 30 pairs of mavens and I've not had one come back with issues.

p.s make sure you piston masage with HARD lever pulls and BEFORE!!!!! bleeding, Also Rotate the bike upwards with rear caliper basically vertical.
I pull vaccum at the caliper end with lever shut off.

I often get asked how to make the brake less powerful....

Nothing wrong with mavens, just the installers.

4
6
2/18/2025 1:31pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

There's a "piston massage" process that seems to be important.Dario mentions it on the pinkypod. Two other reviewers in the mtb-o-sphere mention disliking the brakes with...

There's a "piston massage" process that seems to be important.

Dario mentions it on the pinkypod. Two other reviewers in the mtb-o-sphere mention disliking the brakes with one mentioning "a bleed (from SRAM) that didn't seem to get all the air out." After bleeding with the piston massage those reviewers liked them a lot.

Worth looking up the process (it doesn't seem to be a time-heavy step, just important) and giving it another try, probably!

I recommend some type of "piston massage" process on any hydraulic brake - will be slightly different for 2-pot vs 4-pot and mineral vs DOT but...

I recommend some type of "piston massage" process on any hydraulic brake - will be slightly different for 2-pot vs 4-pot and mineral vs DOT but its good practice and I've used it on all kinds of brands over the years

This made a huge difference on my Codes. 

DServy
Posts
233
Joined
5/28/2015
Location
Jackson, WY US
2/18/2025 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 2:01pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

I really hate to derail this conversation but I must talk about those maven cups. I've always been a fan of the Shimano overnight cup bleed rubber band thing and I thought these cups would help me do the same things to my mavens.

Needless to say, it did not work, in fact it made my mavens feel terrible. So I've never used them again and suck with syringes. I think having a bit of positive pressure in the system and "overfilling" it a bit by pushing a little bit of oil from the caliper up with the bleed port on the lever closed makes them feel the best.

Though I'd be really interested in your thoughts. 

2
1
2/18/2025 3:50pm
29 wrote:

I’ve had two pairs of Mavens and both had one caliper that could be vacuum bled just fine and one that pulled bubbles without end. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in...

Sick. Sounds like my brakes. I was worried this was somehow my fault. I just purchased a Maven/DB8 compatible bleed cup from Pinner Machine Shop in Pemberton and I'm excited to be able to do simple lever bleeds without needing to pull a vacuum. Between this and the old "zip tie the lever overnight" trick, I'm, hoping I should be able to get these things feeling good.

 

Bigger Brake Bleed Cup

DServy wrote:
I really hate to derail this conversation but I must talk about those maven cups. I've always been a fan of the Shimano overnight cup bleed...

I really hate to derail this conversation but I must talk about those maven cups. I've always been a fan of the Shimano overnight cup bleed rubber band thing and I thought these cups would help me do the same things to my mavens.

Needless to say, it did not work, in fact it made my mavens feel terrible. So I've never used them again and suck with syringes. I think having a bit of positive pressure in the system and "overfilling" it a bit by pushing a little bit of oil from the caliper up with the bleed port on the lever closed makes them feel the best.

Though I'd be really interested in your thoughts. 

I replied to this in the brake thread but forgot who wrote it and was to lazy to come back and check so I could tag you

2
Mitch7MTB
Posts
24
Joined
1/9/2025
Location
Bend, OR US
2/18/2025 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 4:15pm
segamethod wrote:
Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers...

Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers decent value.

Oso - Ibis Cycles Inc.

image 207.png?VersionId=whqTEoeWPiUBT
Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are...

Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.
at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are just to small...(115-130ht, 635-650 stack eta)

trails have evolved so much, especially since 29'ers became a thing it's time to ride bikes that are big enough without letting this stupid chainstay length thing get to long.

 

Personally, I find their sizing wonky - new Oso, Ripley, and Ripmo included (read the full post and I'll also explain why their geo might make sense too). While obviously some people who always ride large frames will continue to order the size they normally do without looking at the numbers, I'd wager plenty of people who test ride are sizing down - at least as far as labeled size goes. I looked into the new Ripmo as I searched for a long travel trail bike, but between a long reach (by labeled size) and the not-so-super-steep seat tube angle, it had an effective top tube measurement that I would never be able to work with if I were to go with the large frame, and even the extra medium was on the longer ETT side for me. There were other geo quibbles I had, but the reach is what is being discussed here.

For reference, I'm 6'1" tall, have a 770mm BB to rails saddle height, and prefer my ETT's in the 610mm ballpark, give or take 5mm. I've found that after quite a bit of time riding bikes with a 470-475mm reaches, I prefer my trail bikes between 480-485mm these days paired with a shorter 40mm stem. Because of my fairly tall saddle height on a large frame, the actual seat tube angle matters to me as it directly influences how centered I am on the bike. I also find myself feeling less efficient while pedaling with slacker seat tube bikes, as I like the feeling and efficiency of not having my feet too far in front of me while pedaling. We're talking about fairly minute differences compared to 10 year old bikes, but as geo changes less and less rapidly/significantly, I've really found where my sweet spot lies. I'll get off my soap box now, as these are just my personal preferences.

However, I'll contradict myself for the benefit of Ibis as well. I worked for a manufacturer for a number of years that was on the pioneering side of steeper seat tube angles. I swear, every day for a couple of years (and then occasionally for the next few years I worked there) people complained about or asked why the cockpit of the bike felt so "tight" riding around the parking lot, or mentioned the weight on their hands when riding on flat asphalt. The reaches were fairly current, and the steeper seat tube and 50mm stems were designed to help with technical and/or steeper climbing by keeping the rider centered. However, as a "new trend" it made the bike feel weird when setting it up in the parking lot prior to getting on the trails where the performance benefit became more obvious. To this day I still know people who think "modern" bikes are too short in the cockpit based on ETT - and I'm over here riding the new Sentinel (LG) with a 605mm ETT. Even though this is a broad generalization and there's much more to discussing any bike companies design ethos, companies with geo charts like Ibis will appeal to people who want the "roomy" cockpit feel. However, instead of it being due to old slack STA's and long stems, it's now being driven quite a bit by reach to achieve a similar saddle to handlebar length by those searching out roomier bikes that still have more modern STA's, HTA's, etc.

TLDR: I'm not saying that anyone who wants a 500mm reach bike at 6ft tall is wrong (there are tons of body shapes/proportions, terrain types, and definitely personal preferences), but to say that a large frame has to have a 490+ reach or it was basically designed for teenagers isn't exactly accurate either. Thankfully we have choices!

11
2/18/2025 4:34pm
segamethod wrote:
Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers...

Did I miss the press release on the new Ibis Oso? Reach numbers seem completely nuts, but I guess it's a touch less ugly and offers decent value.

Oso - Ibis Cycles Inc.

image 207.png?VersionId=whqTEoeWPiUBT
Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are...

Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.
at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are just to small...(115-130ht, 635-650 stack eta)

trails have evolved so much, especially since 29'ers became a thing it's time to ride bikes that are big enough without letting this stupid chainstay length thing get to long.

 

Mitch7MTB wrote:
Personally, I find their sizing wonky - new Oso, Ripley, and Ripmo included (read the full post and I'll also explain why their geo might make...

Personally, I find their sizing wonky - new Oso, Ripley, and Ripmo included (read the full post and I'll also explain why their geo might make sense too). While obviously some people who always ride large frames will continue to order the size they normally do without looking at the numbers, I'd wager plenty of people who test ride are sizing down - at least as far as labeled size goes. I looked into the new Ripmo as I searched for a long travel trail bike, but between a long reach (by labeled size) and the not-so-super-steep seat tube angle, it had an effective top tube measurement that I would never be able to work with if I were to go with the large frame, and even the extra medium was on the longer ETT side for me. There were other geo quibbles I had, but the reach is what is being discussed here.

For reference, I'm 6'1" tall, have a 770mm BB to rails saddle height, and prefer my ETT's in the 610mm ballpark, give or take 5mm. I've found that after quite a bit of time riding bikes with a 470-475mm reaches, I prefer my trail bikes between 480-485mm these days paired with a shorter 40mm stem. Because of my fairly tall saddle height on a large frame, the actual seat tube angle matters to me as it directly influences how centered I am on the bike. I also find myself feeling less efficient while pedaling with slacker seat tube bikes, as I like the feeling and efficiency of not having my feet too far in front of me while pedaling. We're talking about fairly minute differences compared to 10 year old bikes, but as geo changes less and less rapidly/significantly, I've really found where my sweet spot lies. I'll get off my soap box now, as these are just my personal preferences.

However, I'll contradict myself for the benefit of Ibis as well. I worked for a manufacturer for a number of years that was on the pioneering side of steeper seat tube angles. I swear, every day for a couple of years (and then occasionally for the next few years I worked there) people complained about or asked why the cockpit of the bike felt so "tight" riding around the parking lot, or mentioned the weight on their hands when riding on flat asphalt. The reaches were fairly current, and the steeper seat tube and 50mm stems were designed to help with technical and/or steeper climbing by keeping the rider centered. However, as a "new trend" it made the bike feel weird when setting it up in the parking lot prior to getting on the trails where the performance benefit became more obvious. To this day I still know people who think "modern" bikes are too short in the cockpit based on ETT - and I'm over here riding the new Sentinel (LG) with a 605mm ETT. Even though this is a broad generalization and there's much more to discussing any bike companies design ethos, companies with geo charts like Ibis will appeal to people who want the "roomy" cockpit feel. However, instead of it being due to old slack STA's and long stems, it's now being driven quite a bit by reach to achieve a similar saddle to handlebar length by those searching out roomier bikes that still have more modern STA's, HTA's, etc.

TLDR: I'm not saying that anyone who wants a 500mm reach bike at 6ft tall is wrong (there are tons of body shapes/proportions, terrain types, and definitely personal preferences), but to say that a large frame has to have a 490+ reach or it was basically designed for teenagers isn't exactly accurate either. Thankfully we have choices!

Exactly, which Is why i referenced my own height an not others, i had a cheeky dig at bikes being small with my first comment which obviously had some effect haha.

I was all about 470-480 reach etc untill i tried a Merida one sixty and it changed my perspective massively, It was nimble but also stable, It turns on its front wheel so well as theres no having to extra weight it.

All the good reviews of it make sense now(i dont really care for reviews online as often influenced by $$$)

Im a big advocator now for bigger bikes and these larges reaches (490-500).
but im heavily against the idea of big chainstays, just feel lazy and hangy to me.
 

2
12
Mitch7MTB
Posts
24
Joined
1/9/2025
Location
Bend, OR US
2/18/2025 4:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 4:56pm
Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are...

Not really, brands are just making bikes to fit adults now instead of 13-15 year olds.
at 6ft, anything less than 490ish reach and the bikes are just to small...(115-130ht, 635-650 stack eta)

trails have evolved so much, especially since 29'ers became a thing it's time to ride bikes that are big enough without letting this stupid chainstay length thing get to long.

 

Mitch7MTB wrote:
Personally, I find their sizing wonky - new Oso, Ripley, and Ripmo included (read the full post and I'll also explain why their geo might make...

Personally, I find their sizing wonky - new Oso, Ripley, and Ripmo included (read the full post and I'll also explain why their geo might make sense too). While obviously some people who always ride large frames will continue to order the size they normally do without looking at the numbers, I'd wager plenty of people who test ride are sizing down - at least as far as labeled size goes. I looked into the new Ripmo as I searched for a long travel trail bike, but between a long reach (by labeled size) and the not-so-super-steep seat tube angle, it had an effective top tube measurement that I would never be able to work with if I were to go with the large frame, and even the extra medium was on the longer ETT side for me. There were other geo quibbles I had, but the reach is what is being discussed here.

For reference, I'm 6'1" tall, have a 770mm BB to rails saddle height, and prefer my ETT's in the 610mm ballpark, give or take 5mm. I've found that after quite a bit of time riding bikes with a 470-475mm reaches, I prefer my trail bikes between 480-485mm these days paired with a shorter 40mm stem. Because of my fairly tall saddle height on a large frame, the actual seat tube angle matters to me as it directly influences how centered I am on the bike. I also find myself feeling less efficient while pedaling with slacker seat tube bikes, as I like the feeling and efficiency of not having my feet too far in front of me while pedaling. We're talking about fairly minute differences compared to 10 year old bikes, but as geo changes less and less rapidly/significantly, I've really found where my sweet spot lies. I'll get off my soap box now, as these are just my personal preferences.

However, I'll contradict myself for the benefit of Ibis as well. I worked for a manufacturer for a number of years that was on the pioneering side of steeper seat tube angles. I swear, every day for a couple of years (and then occasionally for the next few years I worked there) people complained about or asked why the cockpit of the bike felt so "tight" riding around the parking lot, or mentioned the weight on their hands when riding on flat asphalt. The reaches were fairly current, and the steeper seat tube and 50mm stems were designed to help with technical and/or steeper climbing by keeping the rider centered. However, as a "new trend" it made the bike feel weird when setting it up in the parking lot prior to getting on the trails where the performance benefit became more obvious. To this day I still know people who think "modern" bikes are too short in the cockpit based on ETT - and I'm over here riding the new Sentinel (LG) with a 605mm ETT. Even though this is a broad generalization and there's much more to discussing any bike companies design ethos, companies with geo charts like Ibis will appeal to people who want the "roomy" cockpit feel. However, instead of it being due to old slack STA's and long stems, it's now being driven quite a bit by reach to achieve a similar saddle to handlebar length by those searching out roomier bikes that still have more modern STA's, HTA's, etc.

TLDR: I'm not saying that anyone who wants a 500mm reach bike at 6ft tall is wrong (there are tons of body shapes/proportions, terrain types, and definitely personal preferences), but to say that a large frame has to have a 490+ reach or it was basically designed for teenagers isn't exactly accurate either. Thankfully we have choices!

Exactly, which Is why i referenced my own height an not others, i had a cheeky dig at bikes being small with my first comment which...

Exactly, which Is why i referenced my own height an not others, i had a cheeky dig at bikes being small with my first comment which obviously had some effect haha.

I was all about 470-480 reach etc untill i tried a Merida one sixty and it changed my perspective massively, It was nimble but also stable, It turns on its front wheel so well as theres no having to extra weight it.

All the good reviews of it make sense now(i dont really care for reviews online as often influenced by $$$)

Im a big advocator now for bigger bikes and these larges reaches (490-500).
but im heavily against the idea of big chainstays, just feel lazy and hangy to me.
 

Interesting! I spent many years on trail bikes with 435-440mm chainstays. Once I got longer stays (450mm) on a new enduro machine, I found that I really like them for the purpose of stability when going fast in rougher terrain compared to shorter stays. Yes, it influences the handling negatively in other ways, but it felt like it had better balance since I slightly skew to being a rearward centered rider on the descents. I'm also not the most playful or slap-corners-happy rider out there, so I could get past it for the intended use benefits. 

I was accidentally given an XL Forbidden Dreadnought V2 to demo (instead of a LG) at Crankworx last year - it had a 500mm reach, and I'd have to double check, but I think the chainstays were 470+ static. That bike was like steering a ship to me for the first lap, but I have never felt more confident descending on a bike in my life. If I lived somewhere that mandated a plow bike or basically a DH bike you could kinda pedal, then maybe I would have got one. 

All this said, for the plentiful flow trails around Bend, OR in the summer, I do wish I had a mid travel trail bike with a short rear end to rip around on, but the aggressive XC/"downcountry" bike will have to serve that purpose since I already have too many bikes. 

5
2
2/18/2025 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2025 3:24am
It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. …Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike...

It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. 

…Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike completely apart to change it. Having a wireless dropper that you just pop it in the hole like a normal post sounds heavenly in these cases.

This is crazy, but hear me out.  What if the housing came out the bottom of the seat tube and ran along the outside of the downtube and then to the lever?

I get what you're saying, and we're never going back to mass adoption of external routing.  But it's insanity that electronic droppers are being offered as a solution to a problem the industry created and could so easily solve.  

It's like a horror movie when the person being held in a room realizes the door's been unlocked for quite some time and they could have just walked out.

15
metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
2/18/2025 6:36pm
It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. …Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike...

It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. 

…Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike completely apart to change it. Having a wireless dropper that you just pop it in the hole like a normal post sounds heavenly in these cases.

This is crazy, but hear me out.  What if the housing came out the bottom of the seat tube and ran along the outside of the...

This is crazy, but hear me out.  What if the housing came out the bottom of the seat tube and ran along the outside of the downtube and then to the lever?

I get what you're saying, and we're never going back to mass adoption of external routing.  But it's insanity that electronic droppers are being offered as a solution to a problem the industry created and could so easily solve.  

It's like a horror movie when the person being held in a room realizes the door's been unlocked for quite some time and they could have just walked out.

1000000312.jpg?VersionId=cjCLi1
14
1
2/18/2025 8:25pm
It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. …Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike...

It sounds like you haven’t changed a lot of cable/housings on droppers. 

…Especially on an E bike. Some frames you damn near have to take the bike completely apart to change it. Having a wireless dropper that you just pop it in the hole like a normal post sounds heavenly in these cases.

This is crazy, but hear me out.  What if the housing came out the bottom of the seat tube and ran along the outside of the...

This is crazy, but hear me out.  What if the housing came out the bottom of the seat tube and ran along the outside of the downtube and then to the lever?

I get what you're saying, and we're never going back to mass adoption of external routing.  But it's insanity that electronic droppers are being offered as a solution to a problem the industry created and could so easily solve.  

It's like a horror movie when the person being held in a room realizes the door's been unlocked for quite some time and they could have just walked out.

metadave wrote:
1000000312.jpg?VersionId=cjCLi1

Extinguish the heretics. Purge them 

4
TimBud
Posts
530
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
2/19/2025 1:13am

I've been meaning to bring them up for ages too

1
moust
Posts
6
Joined
2/17/2025
Location
Innsbruck AT
2/19/2025 4:02am
TimBud wrote:
That looks real nice.Any idea on price... If its designed with at home servicing in mind, then hopefully it won't be as expensive as the "pro"...

That looks real nice.

Any idea on price... If its designed with at home servicing in mind, then hopefully it won't be as expensive as the "pro" ones.

it definitely is targeted at home mechanics and those interested in fully servicing their own shocks. 

Can't comment on pricing yet, as they're still sorting out manufacturing. But i think it will be way more affordable than the "pro" options out there. 

I just got to test out one of their prototype machines and it turned out great. First time for me doing anything more than a lower leg service on my forks and with the service manual on hand and the guide of the machine it was quite enjoyable to work on. 

fli
17
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