MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/1/2025 8:34pm
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me...

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me 2 seasons with 1-2 regreases and they cost about a quarter of those. Maybe for $30 they'd make sense for people in certain climates but I can't see them selling too many of these. To be fair, I'm not against more options and this is a solid product for a niche of the industry.

 

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

3
3
ShapeThings
Posts
115
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
1/1/2025 9:19pm
jazza_wil wrote:
Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be...

Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be wrong though 

Yes, had one of their bottom brackets — didn’t last. Might work better for a headset or suspension application that doesn’t involve constant rotation. But I won’t pay the money to try it again. 

2
1/1/2025 10:00pm

I tried the SKF MTRX bearings in my BB. It was supposed to last a long time but seized up due to corrosion faster than anything else. 

3
Outlawed
Posts
55
Joined
3/29/2023
Location
Vancouver Island, BC CA
1/1/2025 10:28pm

For what it is worth, the Enduro SL bearing in my idler pulley has seen almost 2500 miles of PNW riding and still spins freely.

4
iRider
Posts
105
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 2:49am
Outlawed wrote:

For what it is worth, the Enduro SL bearing in my idler pulley has seen almost 2500 miles of PNW riding and still spins freely.

So does every bushing in an old school XT derailleur if it is regularly maintained. This spinning freely is a marketing thing, what is more important is how well they spin under the load of the chain pull.

6
iRider
Posts
105
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 2:54am
Onawalk wrote:
The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.With the...

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease, SKF bearings with the better seals and prepped with marine grease last way longer on suspension pivots. 

For hub and BB bearings the marine grease gives too much resistance IMO, so I usually do not go down that route and instead buy just well-sealed items (or regrease them often).

1
boozed
Posts
646
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
1/2/2025 3:21am
jazza_wil wrote:
Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be...

Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be wrong though 

The idea seems like it's primed for crevice corrosion if even a tiny amount of moisture gets in there

Disclaimer: definitely not a tribologist

3
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/2/2025 5:37am
Onawalk wrote:
The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.With the...

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

iRider wrote:
I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease...

I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease, SKF bearings with the better seals and prepped with marine grease last way longer on suspension pivots. 

For hub and BB bearings the marine grease gives too much resistance IMO, so I usually do not go down that route and instead buy just well-sealed items (or regrease them often).

Interesting considering they are touting full contact seals in their pivot bearings whereas normal 2RS seals on most bearings are non or light contact at most..

3
iRider
Posts
105
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 6:38am
Primoz wrote:

Interesting considering they are touting full contact seals in their pivot bearings whereas normal 2RS seals on most bearings are non or light contact at most..

I buy SKF 2RSH bearings, the "H" indicates a high friction seal (=tight).

https://evolution.skf.com/added-versatility-as-use-of-rsh-heavy-duty-seals-is-extended/#

Much longer lifespan on pre-regreasable bearings on Intense VPP frames.

3
HexonJuan
Posts
375
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
1/2/2025 7:12am

I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the mech/user. Had a convo with one of the guys at the moto shop I rent space at about bearing failures and we went down a shallow rabbit hole. Turns out excessive grease causes premature bearing failure in a few ways, but one of the interesting ones was due to 'churning', where the balls have to force the grease out of their way as they rotate. This drives more heat in the system, prematurely breaking the grease down and of course prevents the balls and running surfaces from cooling, one of the whole points of grease in the first place. So, armed with new knowledge, he went about rebuilding his customer's KTM. Fast forward a year and the bike came back for a completely separate issue (dumped in a mud crossing, resulting in water ingestion into the carb). Wheels were still spinning smooth. What changed? He went with approx 50% fill rather than packing it in. I can't say I know a mech that hasn't overfilled a cartridge thinking it would improve longevity (myself included). For easy reading, check out this link: https://baartgroup.com/greasing-a-bearing-avoid-failure/#:~:text=Not%20….  

The idea of self-lubing cartridge balls is intriguing, but I think it's still in a bit of nascency. For now, I'll inspect new units prior to install for fill, clean out the stock grease and refill em to around 50% if necessary. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a plain bronze bearing in pivots though, and if I ever get off my hands and finish modeling my frame design I'll continue looking into angular needle bearings for the main pivot(s).

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1
Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR US
1/2/2025 7:32am
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me...

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me 2 seasons with 1-2 regreases and they cost about a quarter of those. Maybe for $30 they'd make sense for people in certain climates but I can't see them selling too many of these. To be fair, I'm not against more options and this is a solid product for a niche of the industry.

 

I have had a frame or two that lower link bearings wouldn't stay very fresh in. I put them in said link and they were bullet proof. I don't understand why they need to be $50 though. I'd use them in all my pivot locations and headtube if they were half as much. 

2
Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR US
1/2/2025 7:34am
HexonJuan wrote:
I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the...

I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the mech/user. Had a convo with one of the guys at the moto shop I rent space at about bearing failures and we went down a shallow rabbit hole. Turns out excessive grease causes premature bearing failure in a few ways, but one of the interesting ones was due to 'churning', where the balls have to force the grease out of their way as they rotate. This drives more heat in the system, prematurely breaking the grease down and of course prevents the balls and running surfaces from cooling, one of the whole points of grease in the first place. So, armed with new knowledge, he went about rebuilding his customer's KTM. Fast forward a year and the bike came back for a completely separate issue (dumped in a mud crossing, resulting in water ingestion into the carb). Wheels were still spinning smooth. What changed? He went with approx 50% fill rather than packing it in. I can't say I know a mech that hasn't overfilled a cartridge thinking it would improve longevity (myself included). For easy reading, check out this link: https://baartgroup.com/greasing-a-bearing-avoid-failure/#:~:text=Not%20….  

The idea of self-lubing cartridge balls is intriguing, but I think it's still in a bit of nascency. For now, I'll inspect new units prior to install for fill, clean out the stock grease and refill em to around 50% if necessary. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a plain bronze bearing in pivots though, and if I ever get off my hands and finish modeling my frame design I'll continue looking into angular needle bearings for the main pivot(s).

The greasing topic to me is a matter of application. Headset and linkage pivots, sure I'll pack them heavy with thick grease to keep moisture and dirt out. Wheel bearings or anything spinning fast, lighter grease, maybe even a few drops of trans oil to keep the slurry light and fast. 

9
1/2/2025 10:58am

They've had these for a few years, so I'm not sure why Brain picked it up now but I guess most people didn't realise they existed? I got a couple to test but haven't fitted them to anything - they appear to be a standard-ish ball bearing with something similar to a wax lubricant filling. It's possibly a good idea, the wax should handle high pressure better than grease as well as resisting washout better. I thought they might suit some of the stupid bearing sizes bike companies often use in pivots like 6802 which are way undergunned for the application. It's tough to get alternatives from someone like SKF too, because no sane industry would use that size in a high-load application!

2
shreda
Posts
207
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
GB
1/2/2025 1:14pm

Dave Weagle revealed that there will be more dual idler bikes coming this year.


IMG 4272


Maybe the Atherton G200 will use it? Pivot Enduro Bike? Any other ideas? 

6
MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
1/2/2025 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 2:09pm
j0lsrud wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DEUv1_KuiiR/?igsh=MWdhMnk3dXNoa2RjZg==

This looks like a bike from some pages ago, but i dont think anyone found out what brand/bike it was.

 

Looks like the new KHS catalog bike they were slated to start selling. 

It says in the description eurus c165. Made by a company called extension it looks like

https://www.instagram.com/extention.potential/p/DEFqiOZTCHr/?img_index=1

Edit : looks like veefour beat me to it

2
HexonJuan
Posts
375
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
1/2/2025 2:18pm
HexonJuan wrote:
I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the...

I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the mech/user. Had a convo with one of the guys at the moto shop I rent space at about bearing failures and we went down a shallow rabbit hole. Turns out excessive grease causes premature bearing failure in a few ways, but one of the interesting ones was due to 'churning', where the balls have to force the grease out of their way as they rotate. This drives more heat in the system, prematurely breaking the grease down and of course prevents the balls and running surfaces from cooling, one of the whole points of grease in the first place. So, armed with new knowledge, he went about rebuilding his customer's KTM. Fast forward a year and the bike came back for a completely separate issue (dumped in a mud crossing, resulting in water ingestion into the carb). Wheels were still spinning smooth. What changed? He went with approx 50% fill rather than packing it in. I can't say I know a mech that hasn't overfilled a cartridge thinking it would improve longevity (myself included). For easy reading, check out this link: https://baartgroup.com/greasing-a-bearing-avoid-failure/#:~:text=Not%20….  

The idea of self-lubing cartridge balls is intriguing, but I think it's still in a bit of nascency. For now, I'll inspect new units prior to install for fill, clean out the stock grease and refill em to around 50% if necessary. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a plain bronze bearing in pivots though, and if I ever get off my hands and finish modeling my frame design I'll continue looking into angular needle bearings for the main pivot(s).

Cougar797 wrote:
The greasing topic to me is a matter of application. Headset and linkage pivots, sure I'll pack them heavy with thick grease to keep moisture and...

The greasing topic to me is a matter of application. Headset and linkage pivots, sure I'll pack them heavy with thick grease to keep moisture and dirt out. Wheel bearings or anything spinning fast, lighter grease, maybe even a few drops of trans oil to keep the slurry light and fast. 

That article I linked to (and others we found digging down into that rabbit hole) made a solid point about excess grease causing the seal to break or bulge, allowing contaminant into the system. Not saying it doesn't work in low rotation environs, but for my part I just like to adhere to a consistent regiment based on info a buncha bearing co's and engineering studies invested time to research. I like predictable results, and if the same fill ratio works for all applications then I'll stick with it across applications for consistency.

1
Johnboy
Posts
122
Joined
7/31/2018
Location
AU
1/2/2025 2:33pm
HexonJuan wrote:
That article I linked to (and others we found digging down into that rabbit hole) made a solid point about excess grease causing the seal to...

That article I linked to (and others we found digging down into that rabbit hole) made a solid point about excess grease causing the seal to break or bulge, allowing contaminant into the system. Not saying it doesn't work in low rotation environs, but for my part I just like to adhere to a consistent regiment based on info a buncha bearing co's and engineering studies invested time to research. I like predictable results, and if the same fill ratio works for all applications then I'll stick with it across applications for consistency.

Excess grease is indeed probably the most common cause of failure. No different in older cars (and trailers) with cup and cone bearings, over pack the bearings and they will fail. I work on large centrifugal pumps that mostly run white metal bearings however, some still use deep groove roller bearings and the OEM manual states the amount of grease (in grams) to pack each bearing with. 

Suspension bearings...? Pack them with the thickest bearing grease you can get your hands on (IMO). Never, ever have had a problem with this. 

4
ballz
Posts
464
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
1/2/2025 2:43pm

Y we no roller bearings in load-carrying places?

2
MrDuck
Posts
70
Joined
2/2/2021
Location
CA
1/2/2025 2:56pm
ballz wrote:

Y we no roller bearings in load-carrying places?

I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.

Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I guess a roller would be about the same size with much better contact surface between the rollers and races.

I've also seen a lot of doubled up bearings in the last few years - I mean 2 pressed in together at some pivot locations, think that wouldn't be more expensive to replace with rollers, would it?
Wonder if there's some sizes that would actually fit to replace said ball bearings.

4
airwreck
Posts
105
Joined
4/7/2015
Location
Wailuku, HI US
1/2/2025 3:25pm
ballz wrote:

Y we no roller bearings in load-carrying places?

Turner DHR's used them but that was like 20 years ago.

3
ballz
Posts
464
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
1/2/2025 3:45pm
ballz wrote:

Y we no roller bearings in load-carrying places?

MrDuck wrote:
I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I...

I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.

Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I guess a roller would be about the same size with much better contact surface between the rollers and races.

I've also seen a lot of doubled up bearings in the last few years - I mean 2 pressed in together at some pivot locations, think that wouldn't be more expensive to replace with rollers, would it?
Wonder if there's some sizes that would actually fit to replace said ball bearings.

Back in the old good days, I was replacing the darned double-row bearings in the Mojo HD lower link every 4-6 months. That bike was devouring them, what a royal PITA.

3
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/2/2025 9:02pm
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 bearings will make you so much faster. Wonder how much the ceramic ones that will come out next year will be. 

Or, you know, possibly more durable for those that live in areas that are harder on bearings.

Some peoples kids man....

1
3
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/2/2025 11:27pm

Sometimes getting some more life out of a pivot bearing will not be worth if it means said bearing is 5 times the price and/or lasts only 50 % more or something along those lines. If it was a forever solution, sure, go ahead. But based on what I've seen, I'd bet that the best option for a forever bearing is sealing it in and not counting on the 2RS seals to do the job (that and tolerances of the assembled parts).

Part of the sealing is also shielding from the dirt - QED, I've ran 3D printed covers on my previous and run one on my current bike to cover the gap between the frame and chainstay on the main (BCool pivot location. Seems to do the job... Based on the cost of my current and previous frame (Bird) and based on how it's designed, it's crude. There's not much thought put into protecting the bearings - details like that are expensive and are lower priority items for smaller companies with smaller runs, even more so if they are aiming at a price point.

Roller bearings have a distinct negative of not having any axial load carrying capability whereas deep groove ball bearings have a ~20 to maybe 30 % axial load capacity of the radial capacity - outside a specific axial (thrust) bearing design, this is very good and thus they give a really good middle ground. An angular contact bearing is even better in that regard, but is often directional, requires care during assembly, needs to have the proper design, etc.

Dual row bearings are often also angular contact and a back-to-back design at that, meaning they are not directional. They have high load carrying capacity, are fairly compact (much more so than 2 ordinary deep groove ball bearings back to back), but are also quite heavy. And expensive too. A double row bearing is usually 4+ times the price of a similarly sized (internal and external diameter) deep groove ball bearing so twice the price of using two single row bearings. Plus it still takes up more space. With bikes it's often easier to go larger in diameter than it is in width...

7
TheFBI
Posts
45
Joined
5/20/2024
Location
London GB
1/3/2025 2:18am

Back to rumours : a major suspension player is making USD fork

23
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