MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Uncle Cliffy
Posts
292
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR US
11/25/2024 8:22pm

Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try them.

 

8
krabo83
Posts
586
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
11/26/2024 1:51am
Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try...

Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try them.

 

big hole in the middle of the pedal… what could go wrong 😅

4
11/26/2024 6:17am
Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try...

Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try them.

 

krabo83 wrote:

big hole in the middle of the pedal… what could go wrong 😅

that's actually my only issue with it.  Having seen some pretty gnarly foot injuries over the years I don't think the potential extra grip from the extra concavity is worth the lack of protection.  Even a normal pedal strike seems like it could potentially be abnormally jarring.  
Maybe both ideas really work well in tandem and testing has proved my worries aren't an issue.  But i'd be more interested in this pedal if it had the offset and a more regular and proven pedal body design.  But it's still a really cool idea in a world of a million very boring pedal options.

4
thegromit
Posts
105
Joined
11/19/2015
Location
Durango, CO US
11/26/2024 7:21am

Those pedals are cool, I would love to try some. They kind of remind me of something I've seen before...PNG image.png?VersionId=FGci04qt9h9Sk6oxDqSLdsFdb0G13nj

13
Yoda
Posts
92
Joined
9/24/2021
Location
IT
11/26/2024 7:49am
Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try...

Watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty well done. When I first saw these, I thought they were shite. Now I really want to try them.

 

krabo83 wrote:

big hole in the middle of the pedal… what could go wrong 😅

that's actually my only issue with it.  Having seen some pretty gnarly foot injuries over the years I don't think the potential extra grip from the...

that's actually my only issue with it.  Having seen some pretty gnarly foot injuries over the years I don't think the potential extra grip from the extra concavity is worth the lack of protection.  Even a normal pedal strike seems like it could potentially be abnormally jarring.  
Maybe both ideas really work well in tandem and testing has proved my worries aren't an issue.  But i'd be more interested in this pedal if it had the offset and a more regular and proven pedal body design.  But it's still a really cool idea in a world of a million very boring pedal options.

Agree on that but it’s also unacceptable how little protection mtb shoes offer in general. 

1
11/26/2024 8:07am

damn, didn't think that lower c-o-g pedals with a hole in them would create such a commotion 

4
rustle
Posts
35
Joined
11/18/2010
Location
CA
11/26/2024 9:39am
Snfoilhat wrote:
If lower rider-bike-system COG mattered, riders could bend their knees a few degrees more and achieve lower COG than a new gadget offers. So much about...

If lower rider-bike-system COG mattered, riders could bend their knees a few degrees more and achieve lower COG than a new gadget offers. So much about mountain biking, beyond seated spinning on a regular surface, includes dynamically increasing and decreasing your ‘weight’ on the touch points.

I’m hoping someone offers some evidence that this static COG picture of bike performance matters at all, now that ebike companies are touting it. I can’t think of a single reason it would matter in tbe context of moutain biking.

kperras wrote:
BB Drop has a bigger effect on handling than system COG if weights remain constant. In theory these pedals could solve a high BB height /...

BB Drop has a bigger effect on handling than system COG if weights remain constant. In theory these pedals could solve a high BB height / low BB drop problem that a rider is having, with the platform height being 12mm lower than the BB when the crank arms are level. I'm not sure on the effect of the offset pedal body to the center of BB would ride like, so the ride feel is likely not equivalent to riding the same frame but with 12mm in BB drop difference.

On the flip side if you have issues with pedal strikes, best steer clear of these.

Depending on the pedal you are comparing they might not actually hang too much lower

Depending on the pedal you are comparing they might not actually hang too much lower

Screen Shot 2024-11-25 at 4.07.17 PM

I don’t think that’s accurate. The centre of the axles do not appear lined up. 

11/26/2024 10:11am
sharpy212 wrote:
Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

IMG 7269.jpeg?VersionId=43HHoKbz3OIMG 7270IMG 7271 0IMG 7272 0

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain slap.  I loved the clean bars and ease of swapping frames thought. 

2
sprungmass
Posts
130
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
11/26/2024 10:33am
sharpy212 wrote:
Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

IMG 7269.jpeg?VersionId=43HHoKbz3OIMG 7270IMG 7271 0IMG 7272 0

Looks like a XO1 AXS derailleur with SRAM XO1 7 speed cage. You can mess with the limit screws to make it work with that mini block cassette.

4
jonkranked
Posts
856
Joined
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Location
Norristown, PA US
11/26/2024 10:41am
sharpy212 wrote:
Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

IMG 7269.jpeg?VersionId=43HHoKbz3OIMG 7270IMG 7271 0IMG 7272 0

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain...

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain slap.  I loved the clean bars and ease of swapping frames thought. 

looks very close but not identical. definitely appears to be using the DH cassette, could be something new?

1
WMullins
Posts
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12/1/2022
Location
Blind Bay, BC CA
11/26/2024 10:56am
sharpy212 wrote:
Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

Anyone know what rear mech this is? 

IMG 7269.jpeg?VersionId=43HHoKbz3OIMG 7270IMG 7271 0IMG 7272 0

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain...

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain slap.  I loved the clean bars and ease of swapping frames thought. 

jonkranked wrote:

looks very close but not identical. definitely appears to be using the DH cassette, could be something new?

Seems odd that SRAM would drop a non-Transmission/UDH style DH groupset. Unless this is some sort of old proto they made a while back? 

2
jonkranked
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856
Joined
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Location
Norristown, PA US
11/26/2024 11:06am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 11:15am
It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain...

It could be Sram Force or RED eTap short cage.  I tried one on my DH bike but the clutch wasn't strong enough to stop chain slap.  I loved the clean bars and ease of swapping frames thought. 

jonkranked wrote:

looks very close but not identical. definitely appears to be using the DH cassette, could be something new?

WMullins wrote:

Seems odd that SRAM would drop a non-Transmission/UDH style DH groupset. Unless this is some sort of old proto they made a while back? 

likely something bodged together.... correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe there are any UDH compatible DH frames on the market yet.

edit: i'm a dummy and got udh confused with t-type.

1
chriskief
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445
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4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
11/26/2024 11:10am
jonkranked wrote:
likely something bodged together.... correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe there are any UDH compatible DH frames on the market yet.edit: i'm a...

likely something bodged together.... correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe there are any UDH compatible DH frames on the market yet.

edit: i'm a dummy and got udh confused with t-type.

New Pivot Phoenix is UDH.

3
chriskief
Posts
445
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Location
New York, NY US
11/26/2024 11:16am
chriskief wrote:

New Pivot Phoenix is UDH.

jonkranked wrote:

i'm a dummy and was thinking t-type, not UDH

Same thing. You remove the UDH to install a T-type derailleur.

6
overbiked
Posts
18
Joined
10/23/2024
Location
Orem, UT US
11/26/2024 1:02pm
DServy wrote:
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper...

Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to. 

I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them. 

NOW BACK TO RUMORS!

A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories. 

I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords. 

 

you mean Forbidden going E with the DJI motor?  

hookem34 wrote:
Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will...

Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will indeed be very special.

Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've liked the bosch and specialized units I've ridden.

1
11/26/2024 4:27pm
amaranth wrote:
Put in an order for a pair. The 2 most immediate benefits that come to mind are a lower center of gravity on any given bike...

Put in an order for a pair. The 2 most immediate benefits that come to mind are a lower center of gravity on any given bike and the ability to glance off pedal strikes. No too excited about the "pendulum cradling effect" these will have, I think if you're in the chunk going fast you will get blown off regardless of using these or regular pedals - happy to be proven wrong though! 

The first benefit of the pendulums that came to my mind was that my shins would be 50% less scarred, and butterfly bandages are surprisingly expensive.  Maybe they'll sell a variant that self-rights to pins down for hacks that crash and bash their shins a lot?  

1
jalopyj
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10/23/2023
Location
Concord, CA US
11/26/2024 4:42pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 4:43pm

Something new coming from Aenomaly this Friday...

4
LePigPen
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Location
Harbor City, CA US
11/26/2024 7:27pm

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ 

ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing an X2 stroked to make 125mm just tickles me. Norco went so unhinged with the Optic build and I absolutely love them for it. Short travel high pivot... Entire separate linkage to run MX... and offering stock Vivid/X2 options for 125 travel lol. Surely these product dev team meetings have gotta be a blast.

18
11/26/2024 8:42pm
LePigPen wrote:
https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing...

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ 

ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing an X2 stroked to make 125mm just tickles me. Norco went so unhinged with the Optic build and I absolutely love them for it. Short travel high pivot... Entire separate linkage to run MX... and offering stock Vivid/X2 options for 125 travel lol. Surely these product dev team meetings have gotta be a blast.

Remember when Dodge slapped a hellcat engine into a Pacifica 

14
1
Jotegr
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164
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6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
11/26/2024 9:04pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2024 8:54am

Having spent a bunch of time on the new Optic, it actually does make sense. It's the single best descending 125mm bike I've ever ridden, and with the x2 you can easily stroke it to just shy of 140mm. It pops, it's agile, it jumps extremely well, it plows. On single black chattery tech I kept up with my buddy on his range without issue.  It does EVERYTHING downhill and it does it extremely well (within reason, it's obviously no superenduro/dh bike). The increased oil volume over the float X makes a ton of sense for a lot of the people who are going to ride this bike to its full potential. 

For what it's worth, the FS product manager has his personal Optic set up with a coil. 

 

It just pedals about the same as my long-shocked Deviate Claymore. 

6
monarchmason
Posts
195
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
11/26/2024 10:53pm
LePigPen wrote:
https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing...

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ 

ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing an X2 stroked to make 125mm just tickles me. Norco went so unhinged with the Optic build and I absolutely love them for it. Short travel high pivot... Entire separate linkage to run MX... and offering stock Vivid/X2 options for 125 travel lol. Surely these product dev team meetings have gotta be a blast.

I mean it may seem comical in a way but theyre thinking ahead. They know people are going to do this anyways. Or at least are curious to do this. Why not just make it a 1 stop shop. 

5
11/27/2024 12:57am

you mean Forbidden going E with the DJI motor?  

hookem34 wrote:
Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will...

Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will indeed be very special.

overbiked wrote:
Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've...

Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've liked the bosch and specialized units I've ridden.

I’ve ridden it a little as a riding buddy works for DJI and it’s a big step up in terms of power compared to Bosch, brose and Shimano motors. The software and a few little extras built in seem really clever, the adaptive power mode (like Bosch e-Mtb) uses some built into the bike pitch and yaw sensors so it knows when the bike is going uphill and gives more assistance. The bike they’ve built it into seems decent (simple and well executed 4 bar but not going to get anyone overly excited) the main promise is in the motor and the software. Also helps that it’s about 1.5-2 kg lighter than an equivalent bike with a Bosch, brose or Shimano unit and battery.

4
11/27/2024 6:31am
hookem34 wrote:
Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will...

Another little birdie also mentioned to me that the Forbidden E-Bike is going to be “very special”. If it comes with the DJI motor, it will indeed be very special.

overbiked wrote:
Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've...

Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've liked the bosch and specialized units I've ridden.

I’ve ridden it a little as a riding buddy works for DJI and it’s a big step up in terms of power compared to Bosch, brose...

I’ve ridden it a little as a riding buddy works for DJI and it’s a big step up in terms of power compared to Bosch, brose and Shimano motors. The software and a few little extras built in seem really clever, the adaptive power mode (like Bosch e-Mtb) uses some built into the bike pitch and yaw sensors so it knows when the bike is going uphill and gives more assistance. The bike they’ve built it into seems decent (simple and well executed 4 bar but not going to get anyone overly excited) the main promise is in the motor and the software. Also helps that it’s about 1.5-2 kg lighter than an equivalent bike with a Bosch, brose or Shimano unit and battery.

But thats mainly due to the bike right?

Dji motor: 2,52kg + dji battery 800Wh: 3,74kg = 6,26kg 

Bosch CX5: 2,8kg + 800Wh battery: 3,9kg = 6,7 kg 

So the system difference is 440g right? 

Power is still impressive. With the high power you probably need a quite big battery, otherwise it'll be empty quite soon. For me its still more about the bike.

6
11/27/2024 7:20am
overbiked wrote:
Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've...

Has anybody tried the DJI stuff on a bike yet? I'm curious how it compares to a ep801, cx line gen 5, specialized drive units. I've liked the bosch and specialized units I've ridden.

I’ve ridden it a little as a riding buddy works for DJI and it’s a big step up in terms of power compared to Bosch, brose...

I’ve ridden it a little as a riding buddy works for DJI and it’s a big step up in terms of power compared to Bosch, brose and Shimano motors. The software and a few little extras built in seem really clever, the adaptive power mode (like Bosch e-Mtb) uses some built into the bike pitch and yaw sensors so it knows when the bike is going uphill and gives more assistance. The bike they’ve built it into seems decent (simple and well executed 4 bar but not going to get anyone overly excited) the main promise is in the motor and the software. Also helps that it’s about 1.5-2 kg lighter than an equivalent bike with a Bosch, brose or Shimano unit and battery.

But thats mainly due to the bike right?Dji motor: 2,52kg + dji battery 800Wh: 3,74kg = 6,26kg Bosch CX5: 2,8kg + 800Wh battery: 3,9kg = 6,7 kg So...

But thats mainly due to the bike right?

Dji motor: 2,52kg + dji battery 800Wh: 3,74kg = 6,26kg 

Bosch CX5: 2,8kg + 800Wh battery: 3,9kg = 6,7 kg 

So the system difference is 440g right? 

Power is still impressive. With the high power you probably need a quite big battery, otherwise it'll be empty quite soon. For me its still more about the bike.

Everyone talks about the DJI's power (120Nm vs the industry standard 85Nm) but I'm really excited to see how light DJI could make a 60Nm motor...

6
OutlierMTB
Posts
2
Joined
11/27/2024
Location
Calgary, AB CA
11/27/2024 7:50am
TwinTurbo wrote:
Despite liking the design of the Pendulum pedal I'm wondering if their claim that the plattform sits 12mm below the axle can be true?The outer diameter...

Despite liking the design of the Pendulum pedal I'm wondering if their claim that the plattform sits 12mm below the axle can be true?

The outer diameter of the threads is 9/16 inch which is roughly 14.3mm - for me the distance between the axle and the plattform would be less than half of that so rather 6 or 7mm. Or did I get something wrong?

image 95

Not a major flaw but they should have their numbers right for 300$ Wink
If it wasn't that expensive I would really like to try them - they look really interesting.

Btw the Loam Ranger made a video about them.

mmmartin wrote:
It all depends on how you measure, this is how the "12mm below" could be achieved...

It all depends on how you measure, this is how the "12mm below" could be achieved...

12mm

Hi there, Cam here from Outlier MTB. First and foremost, thank you all for your positive comments and support during our recent launch! 

I see that some of you have been discussing the actual pedal drop on this forum. There have been some misunderstandings that we would like to take some time to clear up. Our Pendulum pedal as it was released has 6mm of drop measured from the centre of the axle to the top of the platform. Most flat pedal platforms are somewhere between 5-7mm above the axle so our pedals are essentially ~12mm bellow your average pedal.

We did in fact test several different amounts of drop. We rode a 12mm version early on and it had more pedal strikes than we were comfortable with, and only a little bit more of that "cradle affect". I hope this helps clear things up a little! For more details visit our site, or DM us on instagram. Cheers!

43
TEAMROBOT
Posts
795
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
11/27/2024 9:36am
LePigPen wrote:
https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing...

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ 

ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing an X2 stroked to make 125mm just tickles me. Norco went so unhinged with the Optic build and I absolutely love them for it. Short travel high pivot... Entire separate linkage to run MX... and offering stock Vivid/X2 options for 125 travel lol. Surely these product dev team meetings have gotta be a blast.

It's nice having a boss whose preferred answer is "Go for it. Give it a try and see how it works."

24
LePigPen
Posts
381
Joined
12/23/2020
Location
Harbor City, CA US
11/27/2024 11:16am
LePigPen wrote:
https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing...

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/25-optic-C2-mx/ 

ok im kinda laughing at this. I know they already made one with a vivid and that was funny enough but for some reason seeing an X2 stroked to make 125mm just tickles me. Norco went so unhinged with the Optic build and I absolutely love them for it. Short travel high pivot... Entire separate linkage to run MX... and offering stock Vivid/X2 options for 125 travel lol. Surely these product dev team meetings have gotta be a blast.

TEAMROBOT wrote:

It's nice having a boss whose preferred answer is "Go for it. Give it a try and see how it works."

Speaking of trying things. Trek needs to stop baiting the steel Top Fuel and do a fun limited run of them. And people need to stop going in the comments asking for a steel enduro rig or steel Roscoe or whatever lol. Give people an inch and they always take a mile. Short travel FS steel is quite unique. Would be cool to see it in the market. Can't quite remember the last time I got genuinely excited about a Trek release. 🤔

7

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