Yeti: Yeti was what I thought it was at first glance. Same link size/shape/cable ports. DW-Link is no longer under patent so a lot of brands...
Yeti: Yeti was what I thought it was at first glance. Same link size/shape/cable ports. DW-Link is no longer under patent so a lot of brands playing with it. DW-Link is probably the closest 'design' in terms of kinematics/solid rear triangle to Switch Infinity. Probably pretty easy to make a frame that rides very similarly. Also, Yeti's "SB" frame design is heavy (all the carbon associated with Switch Infinity area makes it one of the heaviest on the market per travel bracket) and expensive (the Switch Infinity doo-dad/hardware). Moving to a new frame design would cut their production costs per frame and drop weight. I don't think it's a guarantee Yeti will do the 6-bar on their trail/enduro bikes because of the complexity ($) and weight associated with it. If they do, they will be looking for a way to simplify it as much as possible for both weight and cost. It would ride great though.
Evil: They're in such financial tightness I doubt they're investing in $1mil in molds for a new frame design that will 'obsolete' their DELTA frames--meaning they would need to update all of their bikes in the next year-ish. Which would be $5mil+ in frame tooling costs. *I also don't know that Yeti has this kind of cash either. Also, as has been said above, I do think that the DELTA system does offer one of the most (if not the most) unique 'feels' to a suspension system on the market. Moreso than the Yeti Switch Inifity system. Going away from DELTA would really make it 'just another brand'. That said, with Delta they are unable to do frame storage, which is becoming a requirement on MTBs.
I bet Yeti has a ton of cash on hand compared to other bike companies. They introduced the switch infinity system and then basically have just been selling the same bikes, no constant updates for years. Smart move on their part. No major geometry tweaks, no feature introductions (not even in-frame storage) for the SB160.
I would bet their business model is based on doing a huge change in design, updating all models, and then sitting quietly and selling for a long period of time. Their heavy investment in racing is reflective of that - to stay relevant, rather than investing in yearly product updates, they splurge that cash on racing as marketing.
Given that, it seems likely to me this is a DW-link style Yeti and they are getting ready for jumping from Switch Infinity and to a new design for another 5-7 years.
My theory for not Yeti, if they're switching to this design, they would have done it for their eBike the 160E so there is a consistent design language across their bikes, so the SB165 160E SB140 all have the same layout. This has been a priority for every bike brand that makes eBikes. Yet Yeti made the 160E with a vertical shock position and a 6 link (as you can't fit switch infinity and the motor etc) instead of a design like this.
If Yeti are ditching switch infinity, surely it would be for the 6bar layout you see on the DH and eBike
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so...
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
I think it looks awful and definitely going backwards. I don't like anything Scott is doing, but the current Gambler is one of the best looking dh bikes out there right now.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
They’ve been going backwards for years with all the integration bullshit
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so...
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Podiums only exist for the purpose of selling bikes. Yeti care about sales primarily, and podiums they achieve are a means to that goal. Maybe they are moving away from Switch Infinity to a cheaper layout where the patent has expired.
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans to commercialize the carbon lugged mule, it’s just for prototyping (sad!). Apparently costs like 22k per frame or something crazy. Looks amazing in person. Had a 38 and an X2, no high pivot, had what looked like shortish chain stays and didn’t appear super slacked out, but tough to say for sure.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of...
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
If the cover works similar to the Genius models I’ve worked on, it snaps on and off quickly. The design is secure enough that I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t fall off in a crash, or just riding down the trail.
Your skit is amusing. I would wager there’s a coil under there. Again, if the orientation of the shock is like the genius; it allows access to all the piggyback adjustments. Getting that rebound adjustment that’s usually on the other end? That’s probably going to be a stretch.
I’ve always had this vibe that Scott engineers are in some sort of echo chamber where they don’t ride other bikes on the market, or really pay much attention to them. They do certain standards and wheel size trends, but that’s about it.
If the cover works similar to the Genius models I’ve worked on, it snaps on and off quickly. The design is secure enough that I’m pretty...
If the cover works similar to the Genius models I’ve worked on, it snaps on and off quickly. The design is secure enough that I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t fall off in a crash, or just riding down the trail.
Your skit is amusing. I would wager there’s a coil under there. Again, if the orientation of the shock is like the genius; it allows access to all the piggyback adjustments. Getting that rebound adjustment that’s usually on the other end? That’s probably going to be a stretch.
I’ve always had this vibe that Scott engineers are in some sort of echo chamber where they don’t ride other bikes on the market, or really pay much attention to them. They do certain standards and wheel size trends, but that’s about it.
i'd love to hear a podcast with an explanation behind every stupid solution they adopted on their bikes, especially with an interviewer that tries to talk some sense into them
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of...
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
Alternate ending:
Rider shrugs and heads back up for more laps. Rather than endlessly fiddling with shock settings, they just get used to how the bike rides.
They get faster, more confident, more faster, more confident.
Lap times tumble, the confidence is there.
Come finals the heavens open while they’re waiting to drop. Other riders scramble, calling Jordie asking for wet settings, stressing out. Our rider looks down at the frame, their fate sealed just as the shock below them. Shrugs. They couldn’t do anything even if they wanted to.
They drop. The confidence. Bike and rider as one they dance over roots and rock, for conditions they care not. Crosses the line. Green.
Our rider looks down once more…
“Man this thing is ugly, I wonder if Ol’ Max is looking for a new rider?”
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans...
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans to commercialize the carbon lugged mule, it’s just for prototyping (sad!). Apparently costs like 22k per frame or something crazy. Looks amazing in person. Had a 38 and an X2, no high pivot, had what looked like shortish chain stays and didn’t appear super slacked out, but tough to say for sure.
22k for a prototype frame isn't insane when you consider what production carbon frame molds cost.
I was trying to generalize the differences (needle vs. orifice vs. shimstack), not trying to pigeonhole the CTS system. But looking at how the valves are...
I was trying to generalize the differences (needle vs. orifice vs. shimstack), not trying to pigeonhole the CTS system. But looking at how the valves are made, it looks like the orifice layout is the main driving factor for differences in damping, but the shim mounted on top of the valve is not just a check valve. For it to be a check valve, it should move out of the way easily, But we can see in the NSMB article that the nut is rounded for the shim to be able to bend, indicating that it is a) somewhat solidly mounted on top of the valve and b) bends, not moves away. Plus the fact the whole valve assembly also has an adjuster, it looks like there is some preloading going on (that's why I say somewhat solidly mounted above) to achieve some changes in the characteristic of a given valve.
Not quite shimstack, but the shim bending does add 'flavour' to the damping behaviour. But yes, like I said, the main differentiator is the orifice layout and how the oil flows through the piston (and then subsequently how it bends the shim out of the way).
When formula started to work with MOJO, they made series of vids, in one of them Chris Porter described pretty well what CTS valves do and what are the differences at play.
Left field innovation question. Any chance of a review on the WRC Centrehub or Zero Drag DT internals? Looking forward to the E13 Sidekick hub review.
Would really like to see that as the hub witchcraft going on rn is much more interesting than anything happening in drivetrains. I had a current gen Shimano XT hub with a similar system to the Zero Drag internals and had to warranty it. It’s been sitting in my garage for a while since it’s laced up to an E13 LG1 in its inevitable form. Also really interested in wtf happened to Shimano’s full silent hub. Played with one in a work stand and it would be a game changer if it was brought down to SLX level prices.
Would really like to see that as the hub witchcraft going on rn is much more interesting than anything happening in drivetrains. I had a current...
Would really like to see that as the hub witchcraft going on rn is much more interesting than anything happening in drivetrains. I had a current gen Shimano XT hub with a similar system to the Zero Drag internals and had to warranty it. It’s been sitting in my garage for a while since it’s laced up to an E13 LG1 in its inevitable form. Also really interested in wtf happened to Shimano’s full silent hub. Played with one in a work stand and it would be a game changer if it was brought down to SLX level prices.
Re: the Shimano hub design--I believe they found that they couldn't profitably manufacture it in large quantities while still maintaining the necessary tolerances for the design to work reliably. Or at least that's what I recall hearing. Seemed like a cool concept at the time.
The rear triangle looks like new Ibis with the same 29/27.5 flipchip. Could this of been a proto?
I bet Yeti has a ton of cash on hand compared to other bike companies. They introduced the switch infinity system and then basically have just been selling the same bikes, no constant updates for years. Smart move on their part. No major geometry tweaks, no feature introductions (not even in-frame storage) for the SB160.
I would bet their business model is based on doing a huge change in design, updating all models, and then sitting quietly and selling for a long period of time. Their heavy investment in racing is reflective of that - to stay relevant, rather than investing in yearly product updates, they splurge that cash on racing as marketing.
Given that, it seems likely to me this is a DW-link style Yeti and they are getting ready for jumping from Switch Infinity and to a new design for another 5-7 years.
My theory for not Yeti, if they're switching to this design, they would have done it for their eBike the 160E so there is a consistent design language across their bikes, so the SB165 160E SB140 all have the same layout. This has been a priority for every bike brand that makes eBikes. Yet Yeti made the 160E with a vertical shock position and a 6 link (as you can't fit switch infinity and the motor etc) instead of a design like this.
If Yeti are ditching switch infinity, surely it would be for the 6bar layout you see on the DH and eBike
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Turns out it's from a Chinese company called Extention Bicycles.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8_jnanxdzI/?r=nametag&img_index=2
Richie would get top 5 on a 2015 Stumpjumper
So we're all correct, it is a yeti/pivot/evil. Just a Chinese knock-off version.
*this is a joke, I don't want another lewis v trickstuff argument.
So it would seem. Ha ha
Still looks pretty darn good, though. But I'm a sucker for matte carbon and polished links/hardware. Early Yeti dh proto. Pivot dh proto. WAO.
I think it looks awful and definitely going backwards. I don't like anything Scott is doing, but the current Gambler is one of the best looking dh bikes out there right now.
They’ve been going backwards for years with all the integration bullshit
Might be time for the new Spindrift
Wondering if it will have the IRC as an option along with the proper routing or not
They were going backwards when they made the bolt heads T30 Torx…
Let's hope they go backwards to when their gambler was solid. The current frame breaks more often than a Commencal cracks!
Surly isn't this group's core demo, but 'big' surly anniutin September. My guess is an updated ICT.
I guess the Yoke's on us......
Podiums only exist for the purpose of selling bikes. Yeti care about sales primarily, and podiums they achieve are a means to that goal. Maybe they are moving away from Switch Infinity to a cheaper layout where the patent has expired.
6 Bar lugged firebird
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans to commercialize the carbon lugged mule, it’s just for prototyping (sad!). Apparently costs like 22k per frame or something crazy. Looks amazing in person. Had a 38 and an X2, no high pivot, had what looked like shortish chain stays and didn’t appear super slacked out, but tough to say for sure.
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
Camera phones can be handy eh?
If the cover works similar to the Genius models I’ve worked on, it snaps on and off quickly. The design is secure enough that I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t fall off in a crash, or just riding down the trail.
Your skit is amusing. I would wager there’s a coil under there. Again, if the orientation of the shock is like the genius; it allows access to all the piggyback adjustments. Getting that rebound adjustment that’s usually on the other end? That’s probably going to be a stretch.
I’ve always had this vibe that Scott engineers are in some sort of echo chamber where they don’t ride other bikes on the market, or really pay much attention to them. They do certain standards and wheel size trends, but that’s about it.
i'd love to hear a podcast with an explanation behind every stupid solution they adopted on their bikes, especially with an interviewer that tries to talk some sense into them
Alternate ending:
Rider shrugs and heads back up for more laps. Rather than endlessly fiddling with shock settings, they just get used to how the bike rides.
They get faster, more confident, more faster, more confident.
Lap times tumble, the confidence is there.
Come finals the heavens open while they’re waiting to drop. Other riders scramble, calling Jordie asking for wet settings, stressing out. Our rider looks down at the frame, their fate sealed just as the shock below them. Shrugs. They couldn’t do anything even if they wanted to.
They drop. The confidence. Bike and rider as one they dance over roots and rock, for conditions they care not. Crosses the line. Green.
Our rider looks down once more…
“Man this thing is ugly, I wonder if Ol’ Max is looking for a new rider?”
22k for a prototype frame isn't insane when you consider what production carbon frame molds cost.
When formula started to work with MOJO, they made series of vids, in one of them Chris Porter described pretty well what CTS valves do and what are the differences at play.
Left field innovation question. Any chance of a review on the WRC Centrehub or Zero Drag DT internals? Looking forward to the E13 Sidekick hub review.
Would really like to see that as the hub witchcraft going on rn is much more interesting than anything happening in drivetrains. I had a current gen Shimano XT hub with a similar system to the Zero Drag internals and had to warranty it. It’s been sitting in my garage for a while since it’s laced up to an E13 LG1 in its inevitable form. Also really interested in wtf happened to Shimano’s full silent hub. Played with one in a work stand and it would be a game changer if it was brought down to SLX level prices.
Re: the Shimano hub design--I believe they found that they couldn't profitably manufacture it in large quantities while still maintaining the necessary tolerances for the design to work reliably. Or at least that's what I recall hearing. Seemed like a cool concept at the time.