The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

Bummer. Hate to see it.

It’s sad to hear about Kona.  Good riddance to Pole.

Oof… It’s starting to feel like everyone in the bike industry will be gone or at least partially owned by Giant, Merida, PON, SRAM, Shimano, or Fox in the next 5 years. - with Giant and Merida being much bigger players than the others in that list. 

That sucks about Kona. Weirdest thing was that they were set up at the Taipei show (other site’s podcast commented on how strange it was), which isn’t even really a show for actually bike brands to set up as vendors. 

I'm more sad about Kona. To think the company behind the Process 167 and redesigned carbon Process 153 is likely either shutting down or switching to adventure/gravel only or something. No good deed goes unpunished. It seemed like this was inevitable when the DH bikes stopped and almost no new models were released. Not even sure how unique the X models are. Just seemed like slightly redesigned 29er 153 frames. Meh. (Looks over at Marin.) Help me Marin, you're my only hope for fun and playful mountain bikes.

This sucks. Such an iconic brand who did so much for the sport. Especially Freeride

To me, it sounds more like the current owners just sold the brand in a quick deal and the whole thing with the Sea Otter was just a part of the bad timing.

I have my fingers crossed that if there is a new owner, he will put them back onto the map in a proper way.

Sent Kona a message through the website help on January 6, 2024 after purchasing a used Honzo frame simply asking,

"Will the DROPOUT CC-142 and CNOAXR01 fit a 2023 Honzo ESD?"

I got a confirmation email that my message was sent,

"We've received your message..."

however there's nobody on the other end, I still haven't gotten a response from Kona. I have solved the question on my own and moved on.

Kona RIP.

*the Honzo ESD rips though, and is chromoly, so local repairs if needed

Had a similar experience. With a CS request about brand new bike. Eventually got through and the communication didn't go well.Kind of a bummer as a Kona fan/customer.

The inaugural Sea Otter Australia was scheduled for 2019 but was delayed several times by COVID lockdowns and travel restrictions, then an inability to secure a venue, so now it's 2025 and on the NSW south coast of all places.  Lovely part of the world but not trivial to get to.  Will there be anyone other than the big three left who can afford to travel all the way over here for a trade show by then?

I think it's sad to hear about both. 

However when times are tuff, Pole's owner being an abrasive a-hole to people on line surerly hurt their sales a bit and jeopardized their future. It often comes down to such small margins to continue through the rough patch, if they sold 5% more maybe they'd be around still. Maybe yelling at people and arguing that it's their fault the frame broke was the straw that broke them. 

Interesting how some companies are really gearing up with expensive frames (different CS lengths for each size) and others are exit stage left. 

It must have been difficult for Pole recently since they only really sell big 'enduro' bikes. I don't know actual sales numbers but the big brands usually talk about their 'trail' bike like a Stumpjumper being the primary sales model for MTB. 

As for Kona, did they not just release a new carbon gravel bike? Given the scale of their 'meeting' I assume something big is happening, but maybe it's just scaling down travel/marketing as opposed to a full on bankruptcy situation. It just seems weird to drop a new product and potentially leave the market a few days later. 

My 2cents.

Pole had a huge issue with their first run of bonded bikes and effectively had to replace or refund most of them to my knowledge, I don't think a company that size can recover from that unless they are seeing huge growth/success/margins. Also, despite Pole being a very niche and out there manufacturer, their sales prices were way under many boutique brands, so their margins probably were not even that high.

For Kona, they had huge success ten-ish years ago with the process line, the 111 was the media darling, but we saw loads of the trail and enduro bikes (I don't remember the exact number naming). The issue is that around that time in Europe, Kona suddenly priced themselves as one of the most expensive brands out there. So suddenly an alu Kona with an average build was competing against entry level to mid spec Santa Cruzes, or dreambuild levels YT/Canyon/Commencal. They never made for a good value proposition.

Not that weird. I went to the Tapei show for about a decade and lots of bike brands had booths there. Of course it's primarily a show for suppliers to the industry, but you still see a lot of bike companies, especially if they are based in Asia. That said, perhaps Kona was trying to court potential buyers by having a presence there.

I ordered a voima last November as part of their sales. At the time it was stated to be a 3 week delivery. This slipped and slipped to 5 months. Every excuse under the sun.

I was in contact with others who were in a similar situation, some got their bikes, but assembly quality was poor.

Ultimately a month back I requested a refund and they then proceeded to ignore me for 2 weeks. Once I threatened the Finnish consumer authority I was fully refunded within 5 days.

All this time still taking customers money in full with the website still claiming 3 weeks to delivery.

I feel they have been knowing scamming people and I'm bloody lucky to have got my money back. Not so others, many have lost thousands.

Not to mention no warranty. The voima swingarms are known to crack and they then send out the revision 3 arm. Anyone with an earlier revision, it's just a matter of time before the whole frame is scrap.

out of curiosity i went to Kona's website to see what they have in-stock (since they are now consumer direct).  none of the full suspension bikes were in stock, only hardtails and non-mtbs.  although this jives with the rumored new process line coming. 

Kona is owned by Kent Outdoors, which is presumably (I haven't looked) well capitalized. They purchased Kona at the peak of the Covid boom, which is an LOL to Kent and a good-on-ya to the former owners of Kona.

I doubt this is bankruptcy, but it could be the end or a major change to the Kona brand. Maybe Kent punts on this recent purchase and sells Kona? Close down Kona? Gravel and casual bikes only?

This feels eerily similar to what another Washington state brand wend through. Raleigh USA included Diamondback and really went through the grist mill. It was years of flailing and bad decisions by the various companies that bought/sold them. Kona is feeling the same.

I think the thing that really killed off Pole was their bikes are really ugly, if you are in business to sell things its best to give the consumer what they want. If I'm going to spend that much money on a boutique and unique bike it can't look like someones science project from the 90s.

Kona is sad to see. It seemed they had a lack of capital that lead to a lack of reinvestment in design and updates after the push to develop the Process line. I would argue the Process 111 is one of the most influential bikes of the 2010's and set the standard for what a 29er trail bike would be. It appears the influx of capital following their purchase was used on inventory of their existing lines (5 year old bikes). Also their pricing is high compared to competitors so it is a tough sell at MSRP.

If I were tasked with saving Kona, I wouldn’t pay to send anyone to Sea Otter either. If I had normal job at Kona though, I’d definitely be trying to get down there to find a new gig!

To everyone thinking we will be down to 5 brands, we could lose 70 more and still have 100 full-suspension frame builders out there. There are too many companies slicing the pie. That's the problem. 

Where did the list go? We should start naming bike brands one at a time again.

Not 5 brands, but 5-ish parent corporations who own all the major brands. They market them towards different consumers, but the bikes become more and more similar. Like cars.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/125-mtb-companies-too-many-heres-li…

Aren’t we already there?

How many more bikes with a 64 degree head tube angle, 76 degree seat tube angle and 435mm chainstays do we really need that all fall within the same 5% of leverage and progression rate?

TBF, even back pre C19 Kona's CS/TS was, how you say, 'interesting' in its professionalism. Forgot the guy's name but he was far less than accommodating. A couple interactions was all it took to decide I'd rather waste time hunting parts down on their poorly designed and referenced website than ask for him to do his job. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vcwLBCpS4t89gUnkGrINlGweUBES7BEiU4K…

Here is a list narrowed down but still well over 100

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQNLSoxqC8yH5fW8VACzBlSFAMs…

Heard from a credible source that Kona is done. Employees told today, PR tomorrow. RIP

(Small chance a buyer will step in but not holding my breath).

Yeah but this one comes in blue, and looks slightly different. 

Let's be honest, cars for their intended purposes are all functionally the same, but there is a huge diversity as their premium products people differentiate themselves with. 

Bikes are the same. We don't all want to ride the Toyota corolla of the mountain bike world.