MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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3/11/2024 1:48pm
metadave wrote:
While I haven't seen anything in person or on paper, the rumors I've heard is that if there's a Slash-e, it'll be a TQ motor like...

While I haven't seen anything in person or on paper, the rumors I've heard is that if there's a Slash-e, it'll be a TQ motor like the EX-e and the Rail will get a revamp to become a real bike at some point after they get rid of all the duds they have now. Allegedly, the HP infrastructure wouldn't be able to handle a full power motor without a ton of weight added, but we'll see. 

I haven't ridden it, but just on paper I'm a big fan of the Rock Mountain approach with ebike + high pivot. Power the idler pulley (which at that point is no longer idle, haha) and allow for an acoustic crankset. It also dumps at least one stage of internal gear reduction, which has the potential to reduce weight, complexity, and noise. 

4
Uncle Cliffy
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3/11/2024 2:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2024 2:42pm

Mountain bikers seem to have the weakest fingers ever out of any group I've been a part of. The Maven's feel fine. 

Spoken like someone who’s never had to “declaw” their fingers after multiple Dirt Merchant to A-Line runs…

There are just some instances where you don’t want your brake levers to feel like a clapped out 80s ATV...

 

29
4
dwhere
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3/11/2024 3:35pm
bermed wrote:
The 2025 Fox GripX2 got wiped but I’m surprised it didn’t make a bigger splash.    My bet is that the GripX2 will be more heavily...

The 2025 Fox GripX2 got wiped but I’m surprised it didn’t make a bigger splash. 
 

My bet is that the GripX2 will be more heavily damped and the GripX which is positioned as all mountain/trail will be a lighter damping tune. 
 

Really hoping they bring back a longer travel 36 fork. 

I was so pumped I snapped a picture to send my buddy. We’re thinking they are coming out this fall?

noodlenosteeze
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3/11/2024 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2024 1:53pm

Mountain bikers seem to have the weakest fingers ever out of any group I've been a part of. The Maven's feel fine. 

Spoken like someone who’s never had to “declaw” their fingers after multiple Dirt Merchant to A-Line runs… There are just some instances where you don’t want...

Spoken like someone who’s never had to “declaw” their fingers after multiple Dirt Merchant to A-Line runs…

There are just some instances where you don’t want your brake levers to feel like a clapped out 80s ATV...

 

I have had the clawed out feeling you describe, I was also able to fix it by looking at my suspension instead of brakes. Also, working on finger strength goes a long way. Seems like many of the complaints about the Maven seem to be made on two sides of the same mouth. 

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3/11/2024 4:19pm

death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps.
DM & A-line is often death gripping... especially through the braking bumps.

Mavens arnt the issue. I did 3 days recently at skyline QT with Maven SLV's 200mm rs2 rotors on a 180mm bike - and as someone who suffers from clawing, I infact had less with the mavens as you can brake later and for shorter time.

To reference Dale stones vid, Stop dragging your brakes.
 

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3
OldManCook
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Christchurch, NZ
3/11/2024 4:23pm
29 wrote:
Saw an e-bike on the trail yesterday that looked like the new Trek Slash with a motor. Didn’t get to snap any pictures. Completely white frame...

Saw an e-bike on the trail yesterday that looked like the new Trek Slash with a motor. Didn’t get to snap any pictures. Completely white frame, same lower roller and chainstay protection as the Slash. New Rail probably?

sethimus wrote:

tq or bosch motor?

Hopefully neither.  Full power .  Exe is there for sl options

dolface
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3/11/2024 4:25pm
death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps. DM & A-line...

death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps.
DM & A-line is often death gripping... especially through the braking bumps.

Mavens arnt the issue. I did 3 days recently at skyline QT with Maven SLV's 200mm rs2 rotors on a 180mm bike - and as someone who suffers from clawing, I infact had less with the mavens as you can brake later and for shorter time.

To reference Dale stones vid, Stop dragging your brakes.
 

Or people are shaped and ride differently and like different things...

It's nice to have choices Smile

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1
metadave
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3/11/2024 4:29pm
metadave wrote:
While I haven't seen anything in person or on paper, the rumors I've heard is that if there's a Slash-e, it'll be a TQ motor like...

While I haven't seen anything in person or on paper, the rumors I've heard is that if there's a Slash-e, it'll be a TQ motor like the EX-e and the Rail will get a revamp to become a real bike at some point after they get rid of all the duds they have now. Allegedly, the HP infrastructure wouldn't be able to handle a full power motor without a ton of weight added, but we'll see. 

I haven't ridden it, but just on paper I'm a big fan of the Rock Mountain approach with ebike + high pivot. Power the idler pulley...

I haven't ridden it, but just on paper I'm a big fan of the Rock Mountain approach with ebike + high pivot. Power the idler pulley (which at that point is no longer idle, haha) and allow for an acoustic crankset. It also dumps at least one stage of internal gear reduction, which has the potential to reduce weight, complexity, and noise. 

I've ridden them a bit and work on them weekly. The rocky motor setup is by far my favorite layout. Everything is replaceable and most things are repairable. Bad motor board? It's replaceable. Bad drive chain? Replaceable. Crank spindle bearing failure? It's just a normal BB and DH spindle crank. Even the sprague clutch and chain ring can be swapped out in 5 minutes. 

The only thing I can't officially pop open is the actual motor but the bike can be ridden out if it fails. Rocky even provides shops with a full kit of spares with part numbers to re-order. 

I do find them a bit louder than other systems when it's working hard since the chain is directly affected by the drive pulley but I ran into and did a lap up with Vanderham in Golden when they were filming for it's release and we were chatting for half the very chill climb, I didn't even realize it was an E-bike until I saw the display on the top tube.

5
Uncle Cliffy
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3/11/2024 4:32pm
death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps. DM & A-line...

death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps.
DM & A-line is often death gripping... especially through the braking bumps.

Mavens arnt the issue. I did 3 days recently at skyline QT with Maven SLV's 200mm rs2 rotors on a 180mm bike - and as someone who suffers from clawing, I infact had less with the mavens as you can brake later and for shorter time.

To reference Dale stones vid, Stop dragging your brakes.
 

I’m not saying I’m well traveled in this world, but there’s something about doing 15 minute Whistler runs on pure brake bumps that require you to hold on a little bit extra. I’ve never really experienced it anywhere else. Most of the time my fingers weren’t on the brake levers if I could help it. 

My point was that when your hands hurt that bad, pulling on a stiffer than usual brake lever isn’t awesome. Whatever the circumstances…

8
1
samdaman1
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3/11/2024 5:07pm
death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps. DM & A-line...

death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps.
DM & A-line is often death gripping... especially through the braking bumps.

Mavens arnt the issue. I did 3 days recently at skyline QT with Maven SLV's 200mm rs2 rotors on a 180mm bike - and as someone who suffers from clawing, I infact had less with the mavens as you can brake later and for shorter time.

To reference Dale stones vid, Stop dragging your brakes.
 

I’m not saying I’m well traveled in this world, but there’s something about doing 15 minute Whistler runs on pure brake bumps that require you to...

I’m not saying I’m well traveled in this world, but there’s something about doing 15 minute Whistler runs on pure brake bumps that require you to hold on a little bit extra. I’ve never really experienced it anywhere else. Most of the time my fingers weren’t on the brake levers if I could help it. 

My point was that when your hands hurt that bad, pulling on a stiffer than usual brake lever isn’t awesome. Whatever the circumstances…

I do wonder if anyone will ever publish any actual data to prove that a lighter lever is always better, because so far I have only ever seen pretty anecdotal info on the topic, which is of pretty little value as far as I am concerned. It's great that we're starting to see people discuss hydraulic leverage as a metric by which we can actually measure braking power. However, it would be great to see mechanical and hydraulic leverage curves for brakes at various different reach lever reach measurements (not everyone has the same size hands, and I would assume brakes provide different levels of mechanical leverage depending on how big your mitts are), as well as the way that dead stroke affects and breakaway force affects these. 

It would also be interesting to see some data about braking traction in relation to whether brakes are locked up or not, but this would be pretty much impossible due to a colossal amount of variables. It would probably explain why World Cup racers deem to like the Mavens though, as they are going very fast, braking very hard, are very strong, and are never really riding tracks that are over 5 minutes in length, and so all of the alleged issues with them are nonexistent for them. We should probably stop debating over it for this very reason.

Personally I will wait to see what the consensus on (and the used market value of) Mavens is before making any proper judgement, but for now I reckon they probably do what they say they do if you set them up correctly, and that its perfectly ok if not everyone gets on with how they feel, because brakes are very personal for a lot of reasons and what works for one person might not work for the next person. I want to like them though because besides their lack of a good budget drivetrain option, Sram seem to be doing some good stuff at the minute (Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil isa great product, and the move towards increased service intervals in general is great), and I have always liked how their brakes feel in terms of ergonomics and power delivery.

 

On a similar subject, does anyone know anything about the forthcoming TRP prototype levers or is it just pure speculation at this point? They only seem to be on Oisin's bike so far unless anyone has spotted them elsewhere

9
1
metadave
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3/11/2024 6:31pm
death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps. DM & A-line...

death gripping Will kill your hands waaaay faster than brakes - having to declaw is often poor Technique with death grip and bumps.
DM & A-line is often death gripping... especially through the braking bumps.

Mavens arnt the issue. I did 3 days recently at skyline QT with Maven SLV's 200mm rs2 rotors on a 180mm bike - and as someone who suffers from clawing, I infact had less with the mavens as you can brake later and for shorter time.

To reference Dale stones vid, Stop dragging your brakes.
 

I’m not saying I’m well traveled in this world, but there’s something about doing 15 minute Whistler runs on pure brake bumps that require you to...

I’m not saying I’m well traveled in this world, but there’s something about doing 15 minute Whistler runs on pure brake bumps that require you to hold on a little bit extra. I’ve never really experienced it anywhere else. Most of the time my fingers weren’t on the brake levers if I could help it. 

My point was that when your hands hurt that bad, pulling on a stiffer than usual brake lever isn’t awesome. Whatever the circumstances…

samdaman1 wrote:
I do wonder if anyone will ever publish any actual data to prove that a lighter lever is always better, because so far I have only...

I do wonder if anyone will ever publish any actual data to prove that a lighter lever is always better, because so far I have only ever seen pretty anecdotal info on the topic, which is of pretty little value as far as I am concerned. It's great that we're starting to see people discuss hydraulic leverage as a metric by which we can actually measure braking power. However, it would be great to see mechanical and hydraulic leverage curves for brakes at various different reach lever reach measurements (not everyone has the same size hands, and I would assume brakes provide different levels of mechanical leverage depending on how big your mitts are), as well as the way that dead stroke affects and breakaway force affects these. 

It would also be interesting to see some data about braking traction in relation to whether brakes are locked up or not, but this would be pretty much impossible due to a colossal amount of variables. It would probably explain why World Cup racers deem to like the Mavens though, as they are going very fast, braking very hard, are very strong, and are never really riding tracks that are over 5 minutes in length, and so all of the alleged issues with them are nonexistent for them. We should probably stop debating over it for this very reason.

Personally I will wait to see what the consensus on (and the used market value of) Mavens is before making any proper judgement, but for now I reckon they probably do what they say they do if you set them up correctly, and that its perfectly ok if not everyone gets on with how they feel, because brakes are very personal for a lot of reasons and what works for one person might not work for the next person. I want to like them though because besides their lack of a good budget drivetrain option, Sram seem to be doing some good stuff at the minute (Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil isa great product, and the move towards increased service intervals in general is great), and I have always liked how their brakes feel in terms of ergonomics and power delivery.

 

On a similar subject, does anyone know anything about the forthcoming TRP prototype levers or is it just pure speculation at this point? They only seem to be on Oisin's bike so far unless anyone has spotted them elsewhere

The best proto type TRP product we could hope for are replacement levers and calipers instead of having to buy a whole new brake set if you have an issue. Love the brakes, hate the support options. I had to use ZEE levers on a set of Quadium's and while they didn't suck, they didn't feel like they had before either. 

1
3/11/2024 10:06pm
metadave wrote:
The best proto type TRP product we could hope for are replacement levers and calipers instead of having to buy a whole new brake set if...

The best proto type TRP product we could hope for are replacement levers and calipers instead of having to buy a whole new brake set if you have an issue. Love the brakes, hate the support options. I had to use ZEE levers on a set of Quadium's and while they didn't suck, they didn't feel like they had before either. 

I haven’t looked for or seen spare calipers but lever bodies are readily available:

https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/trp-dh-r-evo-disc-brake-lever-asse…

1
Primoz
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3/11/2024 11:32pm

Wait, the idea is that a stiffer lever pull in the dead stroke will cause more arm pump?

I'll take a stiffer lever through the dead stroke if that means more power and more pad clearance. I'm a notorious brake dragger and I've run Code RSCs for 5 years now (and Guide RS before them for another 4 years) and never had arm pump. Never had arm pump in general, that's also worth mentioning, but it doesn't seem like the brakes are a factor. I've had problems holding onto the bike in bike parks (Leogang/Saalbach mid-september, it was washboarded to hell), but doing Megavalanche (50 minutes of descending) was a non issue brake wise.

6
Evil96
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3/12/2024 12:36am
Primoz wrote:
Wait, the idea is that a stiffer lever pull in the dead stroke will cause more arm pump? I'll take a stiffer lever through the dead...

Wait, the idea is that a stiffer lever pull in the dead stroke will cause more arm pump?

I'll take a stiffer lever through the dead stroke if that means more power and more pad clearance. I'm a notorious brake dragger and I've run Code RSCs for 5 years now (and Guide RS before them for another 4 years) and never had arm pump. Never had arm pump in general, that's also worth mentioning, but it doesn't seem like the brakes are a factor. I've had problems holding onto the bike in bike parks (Leogang/Saalbach mid-september, it was washboarded to hell), but doing Megavalanche (50 minutes of descending) was a non issue brake wise.

but why, you can get heaps of power with trp, magura, dominion, hope v4, nearly the same if not more than the said mavens, without the shit stiff lever, it's not that it's the only powerful brake in the market and then it's a good option, it's one between many other that are just better

2
3
Primoz
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3/12/2024 1:21am

It was already mentioned, light lever pull, power, pad clearance. Pick two. Negating light lever pull gives you the option of a progressive linkage which gives power and pad clearance. A light lever throw will mean you either get pad clearance and low power or tight pads (rotors rubbing) and high power. 

As for why not the brakes you mentioned, as for me, Codes seem powerful enough for me, are easy to maintain, don't need bleeds, pads are cheap (original metallic ones) and last a while and have good modulation. I like modulation. 

I might be trying out a set of Lewis brakes in the near future, but testing wise I currently focus on different components. 

9
3/12/2024 4:12am
Primoz wrote:
It was already mentioned, light lever pull, power, pad clearance. Pick two. Negating light lever pull gives you the option of a progressive linkage which gives...

It was already mentioned, light lever pull, power, pad clearance. Pick two. Negating light lever pull gives you the option of a progressive linkage which gives power and pad clearance. A light lever throw will mean you either get pad clearance and low power or tight pads (rotors rubbing) and high power. 

As for why not the brakes you mentioned, as for me, Codes seem powerful enough for me, are easy to maintain, don't need bleeds, pads are cheap (original metallic ones) and last a while and have good modulation. I like modulation. 

I might be trying out a set of Lewis brakes in the near future, but testing wise I currently focus on different components. 

Shiguras (saint/Zee + MT5) can be light, good pad clearance and ons of power.. but I guess this is a modded  setup, so not fair to compare.

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3
Dave_Camp
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3/12/2024 5:40am

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BRAKE LEVER FEEL PLEASE?

45
gibbon
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wales, GB
3/12/2024 6:03am

Which shifter levers have the lightest feel?

19
DServy
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3/12/2024 6:03am
Dave_Camp wrote:

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BRAKE LEVER FEEL PLEASE?

No, this is now the MTB Brake Lever feel thread because who doesn't like to talk about their feelings on the internet.


 

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8
jsray
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3/12/2024 7:25am

Just something to stir the rumors back up again.

As if we couldn’t already tell by the sale, I have a text message confirming Evils new bikes are on the way. 

5
dmcd38
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Lisbon, PT
3/12/2024 7:40am
Dave_Camp wrote:

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BRAKE LEVER FEEL PLEASE?

CAN WE HAVE A RELEASE DATE FOR THE RED ZEB WITH CHARGER 3.1 PLEASE?

6
5
ERGue
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3/12/2024 7:54am
DirkT wrote:
You can learn a lot just by looking at the assembly diagrams for Fox/Marzocchi. Bomber CR diagrams can be found here.  Note, it shares certain...

You can learn a lot just by looking at the assembly diagrams for Fox/Marzocchi.

Bomber CR diagrams can be found here.  Note, it shares certain parts/drawings as what is called the "2011 Van RC"

Float X here...can't find the Bomber Air, but those two shocks share a lot of parts as well.

And, DHX here. Which shares a lot of parts with the Float X.  Looks like shims in the base valve and piston to me...but maybe I'm missing something.

He meant the X2 you know the one with poppets......

2
dwhere
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3/12/2024 8:05am
Dave_Camp wrote:

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BRAKE LEVER FEEL PLEASE?

should i post the new fox dampers again? since no one seems to have seen it before fox pulled some strings to get it removed.

18
1
sspomer
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Boise, ID, USA
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3/12/2024 8:21am

new epic 8 and epic 8 evo are out. flight attendant, too. features on our homepage.

looks like epics can ship directly to home, too. that's new for bikes at specialized isn't it?

Screen Shot 2024-03-12 at 9.20.21 AM.png?VersionId=ERClA4JqPxv9RnmNBy

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3/12/2024 8:33am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2024 1:54pm

Here are links to new Epics and XC Flight Attendant:

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/bikes/specialized/epic-evo-48446…

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/rockshoxs-xc-flight-attenda…

Disclaimer: I grew up racing downhill, and like most folks on Vital, I prefer gravity-focused bikes/riding. I pedal, but usually as a means to access descents, and I'm typically on 140mm+ bikes. Showing up at an XC press camp with flat pedals and a trail helmet was pretty comical. I figured I'd like the EVO more since I enjoy pushing bikes on descents. But turns out, I really underestimated what XC bikes are capable of, as the Epic blew my doors off. It was fun to check out a bike that's a bit outside our wheelhouse, and it's wild how capable small travel bikes have become. 

Also Flight Attendant is still as sick as the first time I rode it two years ago. Don't hate the player, hate the game Wink

29
chriskief
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3/12/2024 8:48am
sspomer wrote:
new epic 8 and epic 8 evo are out. flight attendant, too. features on our homepage. looks like epics can ship directly to home, too. that's...

new epic 8 and epic 8 evo are out. flight attendant, too. features on our homepage.

looks like epics can ship directly to home, too. that's new for bikes at specialized isn't it?

Screen Shot 2024-03-12 at 9.20.21 AM.png?VersionId=ERClA4JqPxv9RnmNBy

Might be new for higher-end bikes, but you've been able to buy lower-end stuff (i.e. kids bikes) direct to home for a number of years in the US.

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3/12/2024 10:48am
Dave_Camp wrote:

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BRAKE LEVER FEEL PLEASE?

dwhere wrote:

should i post the new fox dampers again? since no one seems to have seen it before fox pulled some strings to get it removed.

That would be sweet, I saw it but never took a SS

1
TimBud
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GB
3/12/2024 10:49am
https://dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/DVO-Jade-X-WP-Setup_Guide_Dec5_2023.pdf So I dont know if this has been shown before. But WP is trying their hand at MTB suspension. Or going through DVO to do...

https://dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/DVO-Jade-X-WP-Setup_Guide_Dec5_2023.pdf So I dont know if this has been shown before. But WP is trying their hand at MTB suspension. Or going through DVO to do it (or Suntour?). Regardless I thought it was interesting that this manual comes from DVOs website.

WP already did the Boltron for Magura.

A real shame they marketed it as ebike only.

There was one in the Magura UK office… i’d love to have tried it as it looked pretty decent.

IMG 9083.jpeg?VersionId=ceOxT4vyGk8B9fjgi82aPXw6Z

5
3/12/2024 11:37am
https://dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/DVO-Jade-X-WP-Setup_Guide_Dec5_2023.pdf So I dont know if this has been shown before. But WP is trying their hand at MTB suspension. Or going through DVO to do...

https://dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/DVO-Jade-X-WP-Setup_Guide_Dec5_2023.pdf So I dont know if this has been shown before. But WP is trying their hand at MTB suspension. Or going through DVO to do it (or Suntour?). Regardless I thought it was interesting that this manual comes from DVOs website.

WP partnered with DVO for some GasGas bikes.

Bryson Martin also posted about the DVO Jade X and Topaz "Prime" versions on Instagram the other day, and said to preorder on the DVO website, but there is nothing about those shocks on their website yet.

2
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