Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
Just to try and make sure this little bit makes sense, a yoke is essentially a method to increase the eye-to-eye length of a shock. It is rigidly connected to the shock so increasing the length of the yoke can be viewed as increasing the eye-to-eye. This is also what Specialized flip chips do.
The Enduro is an interesting one because there are a few things going on that can do this. To correct geo for the smaller rear wheel you need to make the shock yoke about 6mm longer. There is not enough clearance to go this far. The longest the shock yoke can be made before clearance becomes an issue is around 4.5mm. The mullet yoke can also only be used in low. It is the max length you can make the yoke/shock member. The difference in effective length of the shock yoke between high and low with the flip chip is 3mm... only a 1.5mm difference between that an a mullet yoke, which works out to a about a 3mm difference in BB height compared to doing the same wheel change with the bike in high. So in reality, the BB ends up being a little lower than the low setting with a 29" rear wheel, which is a fair bit lower than high with a 29" wheel. Looking at how stock in high vs mullet yoke impacts travel/leverage ratio, there actually isn't a massive difference because the total change in length is only 1.5mm. That said, for a given wheel speed input and damping ratio, force as felt at the wheel is inversely proportional to leverage ratio squared. So if you go to middle of travel, spring force as felt at the wheel might be 3% less with the yoke, but damping at the wheel is 7% less for this bike.
Looping back to the bike feeling less poppy and the spring feeling soft, I would say this is most likely the result of the compression damping now being lower as you feel it at the wheel and the bike being slacker. Dropping the rear of the bike shifts some weight to the rear. That alone can make things feel softer. If you've left compression damping untouched that could potentially result in the softer feel as well. That can be remedied by just adding some damping though.
It's been a little while since I've looked into kinematics stuff and I'm sure the folks at Cascade would have a better answer than me (of course they already replied by the time I finished typing all this out, lol), but here goes:
I assume you're referring to the WRP mullet link, which results in similar geometry to the stock 29" Enduro in Low but also gives it a higher leverage rate throughout its travel (see the graphs here). Since your shock now has more leverage over the wheel, you're getting more travel, and therefore less force at the wheel, from the same shock stroke if I have my math right. Basically as an example, with a higher leverage ratio you would need less force than before to compress the shock a given amount. Normally you'd compensate for this with additional spring force at the shock, and it seems like you can already tell why that is, since the bike feels softer and less poppy.
I've also been interested in exploring the effects of chain tension and anti-squat on the 'poppiness' of a bike, and the WRP link does lower the anti-squat throughout the entire travel, but I'd guess what you're feeling is much more influenced by the change in leverage.
As for general 'High/Low' flip chips, I'd assume the effect generally varies by the implementation, but I'd typically expect the 'Low' position to be more progressive (which would usually be achieved by increasing leverage) since it's intended as a more aggressive geometry. At least one generation of the SC Megatower also had a more progressive end behavior in 'Low' versus 'High', according to PB's old Behind the Numbers here, which might have offset the slightly softer-feeling mid-stroke (again assuming no compensation from the shock). Chances are, though, any of the changes to the leverage curve from a geometry flip chip won't have nearly as noticeable an effect as a dedicated progression chip (think Trek Fuel EX/Session).
TL;DR: Your mullet link also changed the bike's leverage rate; higher leverage = softer; you could try increasing your spring rate to find a better balance between softness and support. (Or try compression first, since the guys at Cascade are much smarter than me, their answer sure seems correct and adjusting compression is way easier anyways if you have a coil
)
Did Ancillotti make a mistake in their website? It's stated the frame has 170mm of rear travel by using a 210x55mm shock, which is not good!
Love this but they are smoking something stroking making a small 462 reach. Too big for me at 5 10
Nicolai Saturn 16 for example in Small has 465-469 reach for their standard frame sizes, so Ancillotti is pretty spot on with their reach numbers.
Here you go:
It was something that was told to me by a well-known suspension tuner.
Truthfully looking at this new shock a bit more, I just don't get where it fits in with its price point (in spite of my earlier enthusiasm).
Besides the HBO what are you getting that a $280 Bomber doesn't get you? If it came with true custom tuning at that price, I think that would be a fair deal, but as is, nah.
you don't have to talk to Craig at avalanche, that's a saving in itself.....
A $280 Bomber doesn't get you much; a harsh and digressive base valve setup prone to breaking wave springs, a super high IFP pressure, and (from the stock ones I have had) an over damped rebound stack.
An Avalanche tuned Bomber CR is light years better, but is also usually $600-$700 when you are done.
The PUSH SV8 looks to be a solid $500-$600 shock with a nice "made in Colorado" markup, and an HBO heavily influenced by the stroke you are running.
The sv8 is a cool product, it'll sell loads to dudes with levo's I'm sure. I don't quite get the limited off the shelf tunes with how resistant they are to sell/configure an 11.6 for bikes that are not in their catalog or they don't have data on. The pricing isn't a great value, but it's not terrible for a small volume product made and assembled in the US. I agree the HBO situation is a head scratcher.
Fwiw, regarding the other options people are quoting... I tend to agree with @brash and @dirty booger I have in my fleet the following: 21 dhx2, 11.6 (s-series), RS SDU Coil with VS tractiv tune, cc db inline coil.
I've used craig @ avalanche twice in the past and while the products I got from him were decent, I don't care much to do business with him again. I briefly used a marz bomber cr and as stated above, that shock is a great platform for aftermarket work but performs like trash stock unless you are 250+ lbs or sending huge stuff and need ALL of the damping and don't care much about traction or performance.
The current answer is clear if you want value and 90% of the performance of custom tuned stuff without the expense. 23+ rs super deluxe ultimate. I would buy one of those over the 11.6 I have, over the dhx2 and over the tractiv tuned shock I have. The tractiv tuned super deluxe ultimate is seriously 95% as good as the 11.6 and if you have a previous gen super deluxe it's the clear choice on value/performance. However, there isn't much reason to go down that road as the new super deluxe is absolute butter, stupid easy to setup and find the right end user settings and the performance is imo as good as an 11.6 and anything else I've tried.
The only negative to going that route, is that rockshox is a real pita do deal with on certain parts being available aftermarket. For example, if you scratch a damper shaft... you likely won't be able to get one through your LBS/RS dealer as there seems to be a reluctance for RS to sell those parts without a warranty or in house service request attached. If RS had parts availability and documentation like fox does, I'd never buy another fox product. The saving grace is that RS is truly amazing to deal with on warranty stuff through their LBS's... they just seem to not offer parts support.
Are you serious regarding RS vs. Fox parts situation? While I haven't looked into how many replacement parts are available for Fox products, just the fact that each product requires multiple hundreds of euros in custom tools to be able to service it is an utter no go compared to how easy it is to service RS stuff. The guides are also much more clear than they are for Fox products. One saving grace is the fact that with Fox you buy separate service kits for the lowers, damper and the spring while a 200h kit for RS forks is a one stop shop. There is a ~*2 price difference between the two though (in favour of RS). And the shaft you mention for a C1+ air shock is available at European e-tailers. Not in in stock in all lengths, but it is offered in all variants.
Regarding warranty... there is no doubt it comes down to the local reps, but the warranty handling for RS (all Sram in fact) products in Slovenia is utter garbage. And not much better in the UK based on my (single case) experience. But we are again outside the scope of tech rumors
Thanks I didn’t need to know that
Yeah, UK warranty/backup for Sram is pretty poor. However, rumour has it that they’ll be doing their own thing here soon anyway.
Just when i thought id figured out my next frame they bring out another option to ponder! A cruel cruel world indeed.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0UuYEBt1gN/
lmao
Id still take it over an Orange… actually i dont know.
Orange make a functional mountain bike. That thing never will be. Considering the seatpost insertion it's not even drawn by someone who mountain bikes, and given the design choices elsewhere i would've thought it was probably put together by an industrial design student for a project.
Don't see any bottle mounts either... Maybe it's a downhill bike? The seattube certainly makes it unusable for any other purpose.
Very disappointing, I would be quite tempted to get this, but 55mm is just not enough to provide adequate damping on a 170mm travel frame.
Sure it‘s not a Gravel bike?
There was a video from Saint and that they posted that says the dh bike was going to be released in late November ti early December.
New Ext shock? Anyone knows anything?
Probably for the "MX" line like their doublecrown, light motorbikes?
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/abs
Not the same shape as the picture above, but the tech is out there.
Yeah definitely. Just strange I guess. The red light is a new thing I've never seen before and from what I saw there is no secondary rotor for the ABS.
ENHANCE!
Wireless brake tech certainly wouldn't be all that complicated. Small motor controlling a little piston that pushes fluid into the calipers. But there is a ton of drawbacks and zero benefits besides no cables (who cares)
Lag time from lever to brakes, no real way to create brake feel, you are adding weight in general but all the weight you are adding is unsprung weight.