2019 UCI World Cup Downhill Tech

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UCI Mountain Bike World Cup
ride
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ride 3/25/2019 7:44am
3/25/2019 7:44am
Screw the bike, is that an Alpinestars 1piece suit?!
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watchcwgo
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watchcwgo 3/25/2019 9:29am
3/25/2019 9:29am
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy
Roots_rider
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Roots_rider 3/25/2019 9:40am
3/25/2019 9:40am
SB14 wrote:
Pulldamper. And a traditional spring setup. My guess. And that they are toying with a new pull shock. I few pages ago you could see this...
Pulldamper. And a traditional spring setup. My guess.

And that they are toying with a new pull shock. I few pages ago you could see this bike(?) at whistler without the spring, so the might bring back a pull shock? But since it has the mounts for a regular shock as well, might be testing both, and a combination.

Still looks to me like like a standard shock. Rocker pivots and pushes back down on it. I think his leg is hiding the upper and lower mounting points for the other shocks mounting bracket. Think they just left a standard damper with no spring on it in the screen grabs.

Mud Dauber-G
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Mud Dauber-G 3/25/2019 10:18am
3/25/2019 10:18am
It appears to be linkage to in some way stabilizer the rear triangle at the top which makes sense given there aren't any upper pivot points that I see.
djbutcher13
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djbutcher13 3/25/2019 10:32am
3/25/2019 10:32am
Since this thread seems to be more of an any AM/DH tech rummer thread, check the build kits on this bike,

thttps://www.liteville.com/en/412/bikes/301-mk15/werksmaschine/301-mk15-…

We knew the lyric and pike were coming but it looks like there will be new brakes as well. Also, the fact that they appear in build kits bodes well for their being inventory on launch (looking at you Shimano).
Loki87
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Loki87 3/25/2019 10:38am
3/25/2019 10:38am
watchcwgo wrote:
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing...
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy
The thing that´s weird though is that the frame doesn´t look like a proto. It looks like a production carbon frame.
If this was a prototype, fine, but going carbon proto seems rather excessive and cost inefficient. So why build in that top tube mount if it´s not gonna do anything in the end?
In the end it seems like a lot of trouble to go through just so people don´t get what´s going on.

Obviously the linkage is theoretically able to compress two shocks at once.
My guess, the upper coil does work as a pure spring and rebound control unit, while the lower damper serves as a seperate compression damping unit. That way we would finally end up with completely independent damping circuits.
They probably tested it with the single lower shock for lower spec versions or as a "freeride" setup for people who don´t want to fiddle with two shocks.
I don´t know if this would even work though. Any engineers around who can comment?
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ride
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ride 3/25/2019 10:54am
3/25/2019 10:54am
watchcwgo wrote:
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing...
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy
Loki87 wrote:
The thing that´s weird though is that the frame doesn´t look like a proto. It looks like a production carbon frame. If this was a prototype...
The thing that´s weird though is that the frame doesn´t look like a proto. It looks like a production carbon frame.
If this was a prototype, fine, but going carbon proto seems rather excessive and cost inefficient. So why build in that top tube mount if it´s not gonna do anything in the end?
In the end it seems like a lot of trouble to go through just so people don´t get what´s going on.

Obviously the linkage is theoretically able to compress two shocks at once.
My guess, the upper coil does work as a pure spring and rebound control unit, while the lower damper serves as a seperate compression damping unit. That way we would finally end up with completely independent damping circuits.
They probably tested it with the single lower shock for lower spec versions or as a "freeride" setup for people who don´t want to fiddle with two shocks.
I don´t know if this would even work though. Any engineers around who can comment?
A little birdie may or may not have peeped that there is no plan for this bike to make it to the market. FRO, would explain why. Could be an investment in a testing platform for other products.

Might seem weird, but Dorel has resources and $$ to burn.
tjbiker38
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tjbiker38 3/25/2019 10:57am
3/25/2019 10:57am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2019 10:58am
watchcwgo wrote:
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing...
Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy
Nope ive seen the bike in person and it was running a air shock in the upper position and a coil shock on the lower mount with no coil. The air shock had to be real in order to provide the spring.

AdamZiegler52 3/25/2019 12:40pm
3/25/2019 12:40pm
Hyperpower! wrote:
It doesn't seem to have a reservoir indeed. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2019/03/24/7902/s1200_Captura_de_ecr_2019_03_24_s_18.27.15.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2019/03/24/7903/s1200_Captura_de_ecr_2019_03_24_s_18.27.49.jpg[/img]
It doesn't seem to have a reservoir indeed.




It sure seems there are multiple test frames out there, some with upper and lower shock options and one with only the upper... Hard to say but it seems like the bottom of the down tube has an access point to hide some stuff too.
pyromaniac 3/26/2019 2:14am
3/26/2019 2:14am
dmcd38 wrote:


lots of clips with Matt Simmons on the new cannondale bike Wink

Matt Simmons
@0:06
@5:26
@14:23

Watched it several times at 0.25x speed. Hard to tell whether the coil is compressing.


dmcd38
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dmcd38 3/26/2019 5:01am
3/26/2019 5:01am
dmcd38 wrote:


lots of clips with Matt Simmons on the new cannondale bike Wink

pyromaniac wrote:
Matt Simmons @0:06 @5:26 @14:23 Watched it several times at 0.25x speed. Hard to tell whether the coil is compressing. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2019/03/26/7911/s1200_cd_ms_1.jpg[/img]
Matt Simmons
@0:06
@5:26
@14:23

Watched it several times at 0.25x speed. Hard to tell whether the coil is compressing.


Matt Simmonds is wearing number 105 and we spotted him at 0:05, 5:26, 10:00, 10:52 and 14:24 Smile
StainedSilver 3/26/2019 8:26am
3/26/2019 8:26am
Last few shots of Danny Hart on his insta have him running a Monster branded D3. Still tagging Lazer in his photos with no reference to TLD. Have I missed something?
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Darth_Sloth
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Darth_Sloth 3/27/2019 12:47pm
3/27/2019 12:47pm
The coil doesnt look likeit has a piggy back lie the normal DHX2... Separate damper and spring seems more and more likely.



Broken_spoke.photo 3/28/2019 10:02am
3/28/2019 10:02am
qblambda wrote:
He's riding a dropper too
That looks more like a Pro Tharsis seat post than the new axs dropper.
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Subtenz 3/28/2019 1:22pm
3/28/2019 1:22pm

Dylan
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Dylan 3/29/2019 2:31am
3/29/2019 2:31am
Santa Cruz feeding the forum again, this time its bike weights.

Minnaar 17.41kg
Shaw 17.71kg
Vergier 16.91kg

https://youtu.be/dpaAKqodis8

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qblambda
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qblambda 3/29/2019 3:22am
3/29/2019 3:22am
Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...
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qblambda
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qblambda 3/29/2019 5:52am
3/29/2019 5:52am
qblambda wrote:
Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...
Dylan wrote:
Longer frames and larger wheels are where the extra weight would come from.

For comparison, Minnaar's 2011 worlds bike weighed in at 15.87 kg https://www.sicklines.com/2011/04/01/santa-cruz-syndicate-preps-for-wor…
The Trek Session 9.9 29 XL is 15.36kg, aluminium wheels, saint groupset. Less than the 26" you pointed.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html
The Cube 215 is also very competitive in aluminium...

Sure longer bike and bigger wheels may rise the weight, but years of research and experience are supposed to lower that weight too.
Those Santas are heavy.

I do ride a 29er 2018 Gambler in L +7 reach at 16.21kg tho...
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MPH24
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MPH24 3/29/2019 6:35am
3/29/2019 6:35am
I also think the lighter frame and, potentially wheels, allow them to have heavier parts in other areas and stay at a weight they want. Who knows, they may also be fucking with us.
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sspomer
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sspomer 3/29/2019 7:18am
3/29/2019 7:18am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2019 7:23am
assegai 29er dh casing weight from our test last year. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really pedally track or tight/twisty, would these weights be bad? stability in spades, right?

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bokCZ
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bokCZ 3/29/2019 8:00am
3/29/2019 8:00am
qblambda wrote:
Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...
Dylan wrote:
Longer frames and larger wheels are where the extra weight would come from.

For comparison, Minnaar's 2011 worlds bike weighed in at 15.87 kg https://www.sicklines.com/2011/04/01/santa-cruz-syndicate-preps-for-wor…
qblambda wrote:
The Trek Session 9.9 29 XL is 15.36kg, aluminium wheels, saint groupset. Less than the 26" you pointed. [url=https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html]https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html[/url] The Cube 215 is also very competitive...
The Trek Session 9.9 29 XL is 15.36kg, aluminium wheels, saint groupset. Less than the 26" you pointed.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html
The Cube 215 is also very competitive in aluminium...

Sure longer bike and bigger wheels may rise the weight, but years of research and experience are supposed to lower that weight too.
Those Santas are heavy.

I do ride a 29er 2018 Gambler in L +7 reach at 16.21kg tho...
add two pieces of cush core and you are on the scale, also honestly I would say for DH the edge of where the bike is too light could be around 15,5kg, it can be just a feeling, but I don´t like to ride really light bikes on gnarly trails, first thing is just the feeling is not so reliable, the second is that the heavier bikes sits better on track and not jumping around
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LTrumpore
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LTrumpore 3/29/2019 8:10am
3/29/2019 8:10am
sspomer wrote:
assegai 29er dh casing weight from [url=https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/We-Ride-Greg-Minnaars-Maxxis-Tire-The-Assegai,2301]our test last year[/url]. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really...
assegai 29er dh casing weight from our test last year. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really pedally track or tight/twisty, would these weights be bad? stability in spades, right?

Maybe if there were a track that required constant accelerations the added weight might be detrimental, but that doesn't really describe a modern DH track. The same could be said about 29 inch wheels, but the fact that almost everyone has made the move to the bigger wheels suggests more of a premium on maintaining and gaining speed, and a heavy tire while being more difficult to accelerate is also going to hold that momentum once up to pace (much like a 29 inch wheel). I believe it was Graves who mentioned this at Worlds in South Africa a few years back when asked why he was running DH tires when so many other riders were chancing it with trail casings, on a track with few slow speed accelerations he felt the heavier tires actually helped.

That said, I think most casual observers might be shocked at just how heavy both World Cup DH and EWS enduro bikes are compared to the stock versions, and how little the racers are concerned about it. Bike weight just doesn't seem to be a metric that greatly impacts race performance nearly as much as it does sales.
11
sspomer
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sspomer 3/29/2019 8:34am
3/29/2019 8:34am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2019 8:35am
just put up florian's bike from tasmania
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Whats-Stock-Whats-Not-Tasmania…

he's full DH casing because he likes the feel. it's been mentioned numerous times by plenty of riders, but the damping and feel of heavier tires or setups w/ inserts seems to be embraced for performance. just like you're saying lee, weight is not an issue for serious competitors in these gravity disciplines. grip and momentum is what counts. i've been on some lighter-casing tires lately and i really dislike rocky sections as they feel like balloons or beach balls getting bounced around. they're fun going up, but not worth the trade-off personally.
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Loki87
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Loki87 3/29/2019 8:39am
3/29/2019 8:39am
MPH24 wrote:
I also think the lighter frame and, potentially wheels, allow them to have heavier parts in other areas and stay at a weight they want. Who...
I also think the lighter frame and, potentially wheels, allow them to have heavier parts in other areas and stay at a weight they want. Who knows, they may also be fucking with us.
Releasing wrong weight numbers for trolling purposes seems like a darn dumb thing to do for a bike manufacturer though, given how obsessed bikers are still with weight.
I know they like to troll but...nah, i really don´t think those weights are off Wink
tmano2
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tmano2 3/29/2019 8:43am
3/29/2019 8:43am
sspomer wrote:
assegai 29er dh casing weight from [url=https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/We-Ride-Greg-Minnaars-Maxxis-Tire-The-Assegai,2301]our test last year[/url]. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really...
assegai 29er dh casing weight from our test last year. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really pedally track or tight/twisty, would these weights be bad? stability in spades, right?

LTrumpore wrote:
Maybe if there were a track that required constant accelerations the added weight might be detrimental, but that doesn't really describe a modern DH track. The...
Maybe if there were a track that required constant accelerations the added weight might be detrimental, but that doesn't really describe a modern DH track. The same could be said about 29 inch wheels, but the fact that almost everyone has made the move to the bigger wheels suggests more of a premium on maintaining and gaining speed, and a heavy tire while being more difficult to accelerate is also going to hold that momentum once up to pace (much like a 29 inch wheel). I believe it was Graves who mentioned this at Worlds in South Africa a few years back when asked why he was running DH tires when so many other riders were chancing it with trail casings, on a track with few slow speed accelerations he felt the heavier tires actually helped.

That said, I think most casual observers might be shocked at just how heavy both World Cup DH and EWS enduro bikes are compared to the stock versions, and how little the racers are concerned about it. Bike weight just doesn't seem to be a metric that greatly impacts race performance nearly as much as it does sales.
most bikes now a days come specked with lighter parts and tires.
My own bike witch is a yt capra 29 cf pro came with single ply tires wish give vague cornering feeling with load or poor flat resistance, 28 spoke wheels wish bend an touch the frame and once more give vague corner feeling , and don't ride at the speed that those guy's in DH or ews ride, once a put a proper wheel-set and tires que bike weighted 1kg more, and i am running DD tipe of tires, would be like 400g more if it was dh front and rear.

saying that a trek session xl weights 15.36kg says nothing, as it's a stock bike, if you guy and weight a xl session from TFR it will probably weight more as if you go and wight a stock v10 it will probably weight less
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TEAMROBOT
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TEAMROBOT 3/29/2019 10:17am
3/29/2019 10:17am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2019 11:00pm
Minnaar’s brain broke when he saw that his 2019 all-carbon bike weighs 38 pounds. I predict more puzzling in the near future.

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DubC
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DubC 3/29/2019 12:03pm
3/29/2019 12:03pm
Woah. Minnaar off Gamut and running a Shimano guide this year it looks like. He's been running Gamut forever.
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