2024 Racing Talk

mickey
Posts
94
Joined
2/19/2010
Location
Roanoke, VA US
12/31/2023 7:02am
sethimus wrote:

how many stops did the norba races had per year when they were the most succesful?

7 stops, all with XC, DH, DS, Observed Trials and eventually short track XC replaced trials.

Until 1998 we also crowned our National Series Champions as our National Champions.  Going to a single day national championship really killed the vibe.

NORBA existed as it’s own entity until 1995 when it was merged with the pro and amateur road racing governing bodies.

Until 2001 there was a person who worked at NORBA offices at USAC who’s job it was to run the national series.   Destroying mountain bike racing in America was an inside job.

 

11
All-MTN-MTB
Posts
89
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Boulder, CO US
12/31/2023 8:32am
hreylalno wrote:
Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

swoopswoop wrote:
Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as...

Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as a feeder for riders and viewers for World Cups in a way. A rising tide lifts all ships, etc...

A US only series rivaled the World Cup in the not so distant past. At the height of the NORBA series all of the big names...

A US only series rivaled the World Cup in the not so distant past. At the height of the NORBA series all of the big names would show and the series was on actual broadcast TV in the US. I’m not saying a 4 round startup will recreate the success of the past just dropping a reminder that the UCI World Cup hasn’t always been the only game in town. Especially for top North American talent. Obviously the way we consume media has changed and it’s far easier to get information on the WCs now than in 90s but I see some renewed incentive for the large US based bicycle industry to engage in and support a healthy US race ecosystem. 

I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues becoming European only and becoming more difficult to watch in the US. If that happens then I think the bottom of the series will really fall out. 

sethimus
Posts
198
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9/20/2014
Location
CH
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625th
12/31/2023 8:49am
swoopswoop wrote:
Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as...

Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as a feeder for riders and viewers for World Cups in a way. A rising tide lifts all ships, etc...

A US only series rivaled the World Cup in the not so distant past. At the height of the NORBA series all of the big names...

A US only series rivaled the World Cup in the not so distant past. At the height of the NORBA series all of the big names would show and the series was on actual broadcast TV in the US. I’m not saying a 4 round startup will recreate the success of the past just dropping a reminder that the UCI World Cup hasn’t always been the only game in town. Especially for top North American talent. Obviously the way we consume media has changed and it’s far easier to get information on the WCs now than in 90s but I see some renewed incentive for the large US based bicycle industry to engage in and support a healthy US race ecosystem. 

I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues...

I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues becoming European only and becoming more difficult to watch in the US. If that happens then I think the bottom of the series will really fall out. 

you know what you americans should do? stop thinking that you are the center of the world.

image 3

14
14
hogfly
Posts
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Location
Fayetteville, AR US
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1799th
12/31/2023 9:20am
sethimus wrote:
you know what you americans should do? stop thinking that you are the center of the world.

you know what you americans should do? stop thinking that you are the center of the world.

image 3

I’m definitely not into US ethnocentrism, but the current state of affairs with regards to US and North American races isn’t doing a whole lot to encourage me to think globally, either. 

5
Mr.Nally
Posts
301
Joined
1/2/2021
Location
AS
12/31/2023 9:41am
I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues...

I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues becoming European only and becoming more difficult to watch in the US. If that happens then I think the bottom of the series will really fall out. 

The trend isn't a more "euro-centric" one though, the series opened last year in Australia (2 X enduro races), opens in 2024 in Brazil with two XCO races and has a new XC venue in the U.S. (Lake Placid).  So while short term DH kinda gets d*cked, longer term it seems to be far more new venues and less euro-centric than when the series was ran by the UCI.

But you know i'm clearly crazy Woohoo

2
4
JVP
Posts
75
Joined
4/20/2016
Location
Seattle, WA US
12/31/2023 10:32am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2023 10:38am
sethimus wrote:
you know what you americans should do? stop thinking that you are the center of the world.

you know what you americans should do? stop thinking that you are the center of the world.

image 3

This is an awkwardly ironic Eurocentric take. Sure, us Yanks can too often be parochial, but this isn't that. "World Cup" DH is now just a 7-stop Euro Cup, and everyone knows it. No Asia, N or S America, Africa, Australia, Oceania. It sure feels like WBD knows the core market is Europe and is bailing on the rest of us to keep logistics easy and costs in check. 

Even the viewer packages are very Eurocentric. Everywhere else it's either non-existent or lumped into an overpriced package that isn't compelling at al. View live races?  Europe only (*edit: due to time zones), so I hope they have a really good on-demand replay option that isn't over-edited. 

This whole thing is meh for Europe, and suuuuucks for the rest of us.

13
1
veefour
Posts
389
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
GB
12/31/2023 11:21am
JVP wrote:
This is an awkwardly ironic Eurocentric take. Sure, us Yanks can too often be parochial, but this isn't that. "World Cup" DH is now just a...

This is an awkwardly ironic Eurocentric take. Sure, us Yanks can too often be parochial, but this isn't that. "World Cup" DH is now just a 7-stop Euro Cup, and everyone knows it. No Asia, N or S America, Africa, Australia, Oceania. It sure feels like WBD knows the core market is Europe and is bailing on the rest of us to keep logistics easy and costs in check. 

Even the viewer packages are very Eurocentric. Everywhere else it's either non-existent or lumped into an overpriced package that isn't compelling at al. View live races?  Europe only (*edit: due to time zones), so I hope they have a really good on-demand replay option that isn't over-edited. 

This whole thing is meh for Europe, and suuuuucks for the rest of us.

Last round is at MSA.

4
JVP
Posts
75
Joined
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Location
Seattle, WA US
12/31/2023 12:09pm
veefour wrote:

Last round is at MSA.

Ahh, somehow I missed that. Point still stands, 1 race in the rest of the world doesn’t make a proper World Cup. 

5
1
chriskief
Posts
332
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Location
New York, NY US
Fantasy
441st
12/31/2023 12:11pm
I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues...

I am curious to see if US based brands stop supporting the DH and Enduro World Cups if it continues the trend of the race venues becoming European only and becoming more difficult to watch in the US. If that happens then I think the bottom of the series will really fall out. 

Mr.Nally wrote:
The trend isn't a more "euro-centric" one though, the series opened last year in Australia (2 X enduro races), opens in 2024 in Brazil with two...

The trend isn't a more "euro-centric" one though, the series opened last year in Australia (2 X enduro races), opens in 2024 in Brazil with two XCO races and has a new XC venue in the U.S. (Lake Placid).  So while short term DH kinda gets d*cked, longer term it seems to be far more new venues and less euro-centric than when the series was ran by the UCI.

But you know i'm clearly crazy Woohoo

Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this)

In 2022 there were 3 EWS stops outside EU:

June, Innerleithen, GBR
June, Petzen Jamnica, SLO
June, Canazei, ITA
August, Whistler, CAN
August, Burke Vermont, USA
August, Sugarloaf Maine, USA
September, Crans-Montana, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

In 2023, there were 2 EDR rounds outside EU:

March, Maydena, AUS
April, Derby, AUS
June, Final Outdoor Region, ITA
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val Di Fassa, ITA
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA

In 2024 there will be 0:

May, Finale Outdoor Region, ITA
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
July, Valais, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

DH had 2 rounds outside the EU in 2022 & 2023:

March, Lourdes, FRA
May, Fort William, GBR
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

In 2024 that drops to 1:

May, Fort William, GBR
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Loudenvielle, FRA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

XC does a little better with 3 rounds outside EU in 2022, 2 in 2023 and 4 in 2024:

April, Petropolis, BRA
May, Albstadt, GER
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

April, Mairiporã, BRA
April, Araxá, BRA
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Crans-Montana, SUI
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Lake Placid, USA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

So while there are some new venues, the data doesn't support your "less euro-centric" hypothesis unless you're referring to XC racing (which still has half the rounds in EU).

2
Kusa
Posts
152
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6/25/2010
Location
CH
Fantasy
1431st
12/31/2023 12:33pm

The euro centric WC can be simply for the reason that EU rounds are wiling to place money for it while US doesn’t.
 

At the end it is always a business, just in case you thought there is some other reason.

No one is doing it for love of bikes in the first place no matter how much you think they do - money poured into venue come also from different resources and in EU its often to support local travel business and it is funded by government.
 

Is that the same in the US? I doubt that since a lot of things here (in US) is driven more by private money and so the resources might be simply falling under different priorities.

7
veefour
Posts
389
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
GB
12/31/2023 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 12/31/2023 1:13pm
veefour wrote:

Last round is at MSA.

JVP wrote:

Ahh, somehow I missed that. Point still stands, 1 race in the rest of the world doesn’t make a proper World Cup. 

Yes, I fully agree. I'd love to see more rounds in different countries, but as Kusa says not much can be done if venues aren't bidding.

 

4
mcozzy
Posts
17
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
GB
12/31/2023 1:31pm
chriskief wrote:
Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this) In 2022 there were...

Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this)

In 2022 there were 3 EWS stops outside EU:

June, Innerleithen, GBR
June, Petzen Jamnica, SLO
June, Canazei, ITA
August, Whistler, CAN
August, Burke Vermont, USA
August, Sugarloaf Maine, USA
September, Crans-Montana, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

In 2023, there were 2 EDR rounds outside EU:

March, Maydena, AUS
April, Derby, AUS
June, Final Outdoor Region, ITA
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val Di Fassa, ITA
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA

In 2024 there will be 0:

May, Finale Outdoor Region, ITA
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
July, Valais, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

DH had 2 rounds outside the EU in 2022 & 2023:

March, Lourdes, FRA
May, Fort William, GBR
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

In 2024 that drops to 1:

May, Fort William, GBR
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Loudenvielle, FRA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

XC does a little better with 3 rounds outside EU in 2022, 2 in 2023 and 4 in 2024:

April, Petropolis, BRA
May, Albstadt, GER
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

April, Mairiporã, BRA
April, Araxá, BRA
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Crans-Montana, SUI
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Lake Placid, USA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

So while there are some new venues, the data doesn't support your "less euro-centric" hypothesis unless you're referring to XC racing (which still has half the rounds in EU).

No we wont!

GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held.

The EU is a collection of countries within Europe that are part of a political and economical union.

They are European rounds, not EU rounds.

2
1
chriskief
Posts
332
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
Fantasy
441st
12/31/2023 1:38pm
chriskief wrote:
Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this) In 2022 there were...

Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this)

In 2022 there were 3 EWS stops outside EU:

June, Innerleithen, GBR
June, Petzen Jamnica, SLO
June, Canazei, ITA
August, Whistler, CAN
August, Burke Vermont, USA
August, Sugarloaf Maine, USA
September, Crans-Montana, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

In 2023, there were 2 EDR rounds outside EU:

March, Maydena, AUS
April, Derby, AUS
June, Final Outdoor Region, ITA
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val Di Fassa, ITA
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA

In 2024 there will be 0:

May, Finale Outdoor Region, ITA
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
July, Valais, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

DH had 2 rounds outside the EU in 2022 & 2023:

March, Lourdes, FRA
May, Fort William, GBR
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

In 2024 that drops to 1:

May, Fort William, GBR
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Loudenvielle, FRA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

XC does a little better with 3 rounds outside EU in 2022, 2 in 2023 and 4 in 2024:

April, Petropolis, BRA
May, Albstadt, GER
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

April, Mairiporã, BRA
April, Araxá, BRA
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Crans-Montana, SUI
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Lake Placid, USA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

So while there are some new venues, the data doesn't support your "less euro-centric" hypothesis unless you're referring to XC racing (which still has half the rounds in EU).

mcozzy wrote:
No we wont! GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held. The EU is a collection...

No we wont!

GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held.

The EU is a collection of countries within Europe that are part of a political and economical union.

They are European rounds, not EU rounds.

If you want to get technical...

Although not a member of the European Union, Andorra uses the euro as its currency and enjoys a 'special relationship' with the EU, such as being treated as an EU member for trade in manufactured goods (no tariffs) and as a non-EU member for agricultural products.

But let's get back to racing...

1
1
mfoga
Posts
450
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9/21/2015
Location
Moreno Valley, CA US
Fantasy
437th
12/31/2023 2:57pm
JVP wrote:
This is an awkwardly ironic Eurocentric take. Sure, us Yanks can too often be parochial, but this isn't that. "World Cup" DH is now just a...

This is an awkwardly ironic Eurocentric take. Sure, us Yanks can too often be parochial, but this isn't that. "World Cup" DH is now just a 7-stop Euro Cup, and everyone knows it. No Asia, N or S America, Africa, Australia, Oceania. It sure feels like WBD knows the core market is Europe and is bailing on the rest of us to keep logistics easy and costs in check. 

Even the viewer packages are very Eurocentric. Everywhere else it's either non-existent or lumped into an overpriced package that isn't compelling at al. View live races?  Europe only (*edit: due to time zones), so I hope they have a really good on-demand replay option that isn't over-edited. 

This whole thing is meh for Europe, and suuuuucks for the rest of us.

veefour wrote:

Last round is at MSA.

That is still pretty much Europe Laughing

2
mickey
Posts
94
Joined
2/19/2010
Location
Roanoke, VA US
12/31/2023 3:04pm

fun fact-

St Anne de Beaupre is the patron saint of safe Atlantic ocean crossings.  

2
sethimus
Posts
198
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
Fantasy
625th
12/31/2023 3:09pm

maybe the us first needs some proper tracks that also attracts some people watching? remember windham, aka boringham? few people in the woods and a small gathering in the finish area, looked like a amateur race on screen. THAT was the pinnacle of us racing for several years. no atmosphere, at all. yawn

4
4
veefour
Posts
389
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
GB
12/31/2023 4:03pm
mickey wrote:

fun fact-

St Anne de Beaupre is the patron saint of safe Atlantic ocean crossings.  

For Max protection. Smile

Stewyeww
Posts
161
Joined
6/10/2021
Location
CA
12/31/2023 4:16pm
chriskief wrote:
Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this) In 2022 there were...

Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this)

In 2022 there were 3 EWS stops outside EU:

June, Innerleithen, GBR
June, Petzen Jamnica, SLO
June, Canazei, ITA
August, Whistler, CAN
August, Burke Vermont, USA
August, Sugarloaf Maine, USA
September, Crans-Montana, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

In 2023, there were 2 EDR rounds outside EU:

March, Maydena, AUS
April, Derby, AUS
June, Final Outdoor Region, ITA
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val Di Fassa, ITA
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA

In 2024 there will be 0:

May, Finale Outdoor Region, ITA
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
July, Valais, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

DH had 2 rounds outside the EU in 2022 & 2023:

March, Lourdes, FRA
May, Fort William, GBR
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

In 2024 that drops to 1:

May, Fort William, GBR
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Loudenvielle, FRA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

XC does a little better with 3 rounds outside EU in 2022, 2 in 2023 and 4 in 2024:

April, Petropolis, BRA
May, Albstadt, GER
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

April, Mairiporã, BRA
April, Araxá, BRA
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Crans-Montana, SUI
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Lake Placid, USA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

So while there are some new venues, the data doesn't support your "less euro-centric" hypothesis unless you're referring to XC racing (which still has half the rounds in EU).

mcozzy wrote:
No we wont! GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held. The EU is a collection...

No we wont!

GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held.

The EU is a collection of countries within Europe that are part of a political and economical union.

They are European rounds, not EU rounds.

Same same

funktekk
Posts
98
Joined
6/13/2023
Location
Shawnee, KS US
12/31/2023 4:57pm

Professional mountain bike racing exists as a marketing tool for bicycle related business and adjacents. The largest market for mountain bike riders is in North America, but yet I would venture interest in professional racing per rider is the lowest in North America. That means huge amounts of potential growth. The UCI/ESO/WB has shown little interest in developing this market so of course someone else has stepped in. 
 

It has been well established mtb racing is not a prize money venture, so riders will go where they are told to go… which will be where the most amount of eyes are tuning in. 
 

North America certainly has a diverse landscape, enough to support a multitude of world class tracks with a large amount of variation. They haven’t been created because there hasn’t been a need. With the market for “destination mountain biking” expanding in North America I can see new locations looking for ways to draw in visitors.

 

5
Mr.Nally
Posts
301
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12/31/2023 9:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/31/2023 11:20pm
chriskief wrote:
Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this) In 2022 there were...

Hmmm... let's check the schedules for the past couple years.... (we'll count Great Britain and Andorra as part of the EU for this)

In 2022 there were 3 EWS stops outside EU:

June, Innerleithen, GBR
June, Petzen Jamnica, SLO
June, Canazei, ITA
August, Whistler, CAN
August, Burke Vermont, USA
August, Sugarloaf Maine, USA
September, Crans-Montana, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

In 2023, there were 2 EDR rounds outside EU:

March, Maydena, AUS
April, Derby, AUS
June, Final Outdoor Region, ITA
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val Di Fassa, ITA
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA

In 2024 there will be 0:

May, Finale Outdoor Region, ITA
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
July, Valais, SUI
September, Loudenvielle, FRA

DH had 2 rounds outside the EU in 2022 & 2023:

March, Lourdes, FRA
May, Fort William, GBR
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Loudenvielle-Peyragudes, FRA
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

In 2024 that drops to 1:

May, Fort William, GBR
May, Bielsko Biala, POL
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Loudenvielle, FRA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

XC does a little better with 3 rounds outside EU in 2022, 2 in 2023 and 4 in 2024:

April, Petropolis, BRA
May, Albstadt, GER
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Leogang, AUT
July, Lenzerheide, SUI
July, Vallnord Pal Arinsal, AND
July, Snowshoe, USA
August, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN
September, Val di Sole, ITA

May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Lenzerheide, SUI
June, Leogang, AUT
June, Val di Sole Trentino, ITA
August, Pal Arinsal, AND
September, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Snowshoe, USA
October, Mont-Sainte-Anne, CAN

April, Mairiporã, BRA
April, Araxá, BRA
May, Nové Město na Moravě, CZE
June, Val di Sole, ITA
June, Crans-Montana, SUI
June, Haute-Savoie, FRA
September, Lake Placid, USA
October, Mont-Saint-Anne, CAN

So while there are some new venues, the data doesn't support your "less euro-centric" hypothesis unless you're referring to XC racing (which still has half the rounds in EU).

I don't have a hypothesis. I agree with you by in large. The TREND is not for the world cup to be more eurocentric. It has ALWAYS been Eurocentric.  My point is that things are not trending to be more eurocentric, There is little change. But the change there is points to a longer term strategy of building new venues in a sustainable way. Just because enduro and DH got a pretty lacking calendar in 24 doesn't mean it's going to be like that forever. And probably most important in trying to analyze this is you have to include xc in your analysis. It's a touch bigger than DH in marketing revenues I think and got the bigger TV viewership in the red bull days. So judging the new organizers without taking xc into account is silly. XC is critical to the growth and success of the series.i

With the addition of some new non-euro rounds in 2024. Things are trending slightly less Euro centric. And as I've said elsewhere before on here my hunch is that the new world cup owners will stagger the introduction of non European venues. So 2024 it's Brazil and Lake Placid for XC and in 2025 I'm guessing we'll get some new DH venues in north America or Australasia.

I'll happily eat my words in 2026 if we are still getting an 8 round DH series with six euro venues. But til then I'll remain optimistic 

 

2
1
Mr.Nally
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12/31/2023 9:38pm
mcozzy wrote:
No we wont! GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held. The EU is a collection...

No we wont!

GB and Andorra, plus other countries are in the landmass that is Europe where these rounds are held.

The EU is a collection of countries within Europe that are part of a political and economical union.

They are European rounds, not EU rounds.

Seems the European Union have done a great marketing job as many people seem to forget Europe is a region and continent 😂😂😂

2
BGoldstone
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12/31/2023 10:06pm

I think I saw an IG post that one of the Aussie resorts was going for a race in 2025

2
sethimus
Posts
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12/31/2023 11:22pm
funktekk wrote:
Professional mountain bike racing exists as a marketing tool for bicycle related business and adjacents. The largest market for mountain bike riders is in North America...

Professional mountain bike racing exists as a marketing tool for bicycle related business and adjacents. The largest market for mountain bike riders is in North America, but yet I would venture interest in professional racing per rider is the lowest in North America. That means huge amounts of potential growth. The UCI/ESO/WB has shown little interest in developing this market so of course someone else has stepped in. 
 

It has been well established mtb racing is not a prize money venture, so riders will go where they are told to go… which will be where the most amount of eyes are tuning in. 
 

North America certainly has a diverse landscape, enough to support a multitude of world class tracks with a large amount of variation. They haven’t been created because there hasn’t been a need. With the market for “destination mountain biking” expanding in North America I can see new locations looking for ways to draw in visitors.

 

[citation needed]

3
casey79
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AU
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1/1/2024 2:12am
BGoldstone wrote:

I think I saw an IG post that one of the Aussie resorts was going for a race in 2025

Correct, Maydena was asked to hold any bids for a World Cup (EDR, DHI or XC) off until the 2025 season.

Traditionally Australian/NZ held a EDR/EWS every 2nd year.

DH and XC World Cups are far and few between and as a test event before the year before a World Champs (Cairns x 2 and Canberra).

3
1/1/2024 3:22am

I wonder how ESO/WBD plan to get more venues, while at the same time, they want to the disciplines to become more professional?

Looking back at the EWS, it appears the boom a couple years back was fostered due to the nonprofessionalism of the sport, aka the spirit of Enduro. And thereby I mean freedom to have multi-day events, more or less climbing in and out of stages/time on course prior to racing/assistence e.g. Even a different race format. And also the enthusiasm of a riding community to showcase local riding to the rest of the world, or so it felt. You could call it innocence of the youth, as the sport wasn't prone to cheating like course cutting or performance enhancement of every kind, legal or not.

Anyhow, that's when it strived. Some of its initial magic is lost forever for sure. But to me it felt it was bigger, when it was less regulated. At the same time, stricter rules, means a better because more fair competition, but it needs a stronger governing body, what in turn means more cost. And that meant only the big bikeparkresort or holidaydestinations  remained as series stops.

So how to get back to that point where anyone wanted to have the EWS (DHI) in town? For sure outside industry sponsors help to carry the cost, but for EWS/EDR I don't know if the push to make it more marketable isn't contrary to the reason it was so well received in the beginning. A participation sport in places I'd like to visit. So while DHI is growing into F1 of MTB racing, EDR/EWS could be the sport for the people and the hook to keep them involved. Interestingly ESO/WDB tried to market them both the same way, to the same audience or at least it seams so. If that's a push from WB I don't know, but somehow Chris Ball should know better.

As for E-EDR - please someone stop it. E-bike racing is nonsense. I think the money spent for marketing ebikes is better invested in the experience (trailbuilding at recreational venues, participation events) or the events promoting this experience and that hasn't necessarily to be racing motorized bikes against each other. It could just be bikes. If nothing else, the entrie numbers in the E-EDR clearly showed this.

3
1/2/2024 2:57pm
sspomer wrote:
Starting a 2024-specific race thread to discuss event dates, venues and eventually the actual racing. Kicking it off with USA Cycling National Championships schedule. Gravity is...

Starting a 2024-specific race thread to discuss event dates, venues and eventually the actual racing. Kicking it off with USA Cycling National Championships schedule. Gravity is back in North Carolina, July 31, Aug 4 2024.

Screen Shot 2023-10-30 at 10.07.44 AM

I love what you're doing here! Check out some of our XC and Enduro races this year! We're USAC sanctioned and will be teaming up with Downhill Southeast this year on a few events. Going to be an epic year for sure!2024 Social GoNutsSchedule.png?VersionId=CG

1
1/4/2024 9:47am

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/how-a-small-new-york-town-attra…

Some very interesting tidbits in this article... 
1. They signed a 3-year deal with Warner Brothers/Discovery to host world cups. 
2. This Lake Placid, NY venue says Warner Brothers/Discovery REACHED OUT OT THEM to host the event. Which is interesting as we have been discussing and know, PART of the reason there aren't more rounds outside Europe is that venues are not bidding. You can't have a World Cup race in Vail, CO if they don't bid for the race. However, this information, flips that on it's head a little bit. Saying that WB/D was actively pursuing the venue. The article states how this place is basically a copy of Nove Mesto, so that makes sense. But it is interesting hearing that WB/D was actually reaching out to venues rather than the other way around. 
3. Says the course will be similar to MSA. Since the course is going to be build for TV, I would assume there will be 4-5 'features' on the course (similar to worlds or Olympics) that are techy and visual in nature for the cameras.  
 

10
1/4/2024 10:20am

With Danny and Aaron both currently seeking bike sponsors super close to the 2024 season - my original concerns about industry health are being unfortunately seen here I feel.  Wonder where we are going and where we are going to end up?  I am concerned on many levels.  As a shop owner, as a passionate rider, a racer  / a all things mountain bike/trail riding fan.... I think this is very concerning.  

I am going to post a link here because I was super inspired by her episode and I believe it comes at a pivotal moment and time in and for our sport.  Donna Carpenter, the widow of the late great Jake Burton, and head of Burton Snowboards appears on this episode The Bomb Hole podcast.  She is a badass but to be short she is essentially like a matriarch for the sport of Snowboarding.  She is constantly looking out for the best interest of the sport and making sure it is shown and marketed in the best of light.  Listen to her get candid about the International Olympic Committee and how they screwed up turn after turn and she took them to task for it.  Showing real leadership and authenticity that is truly rad and tone applauded in because its so lacking in this day in age.  She was and is so inspiring.  All the charities and charitable causes Burton spearheads and is involved in.  I have to ask myself, why or how do we not have similar leadership in our industry?  Donna is a rock star I believe and I want more people to hear her story and vision.  We have great companies and people but Burton takes giving back and being the changes they want to see better than probably any company in the Outdoor Sports Industry.  Our sport -- A sport/ a art form/ a industry all about the same age as snowboarding with so manny parallels -- we can learn from each other.  Be inspired by each other.  I know the riders are.  I believe we can learn and take something from this leadership example Donna has set. The amount of community projects and initiatives that Burton and Donna spearhead are amazing examples of how to lead and give back to build a bigger better strong community of ridership and riding.  Attached is a link to her podcast in hopes that others can see what I find is seriously inspiring at a very pivotal time in our sport and industry.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-KyV-aUXM

2
1
mcfadden999
Posts
53
Joined
12/29/2023
Location
Albuquerque, NM US
1/4/2024 10:36am
With Danny and Aaron both currently seeking bike sponsors super close to the 2024 season - my original concerns about industry health are being unfortunately seen...

With Danny and Aaron both currently seeking bike sponsors super close to the 2024 season - my original concerns about industry health are being unfortunately seen here I feel.  Wonder where we are going and where we are going to end up?  I am concerned on many levels.  As a shop owner, as a passionate rider, a racer  / a all things mountain bike/trail riding fan.... I think this is very concerning.  

I am going to post a link here because I was super inspired by her episode and I believe it comes at a pivotal moment and time in and for our sport.  Donna Carpenter, the widow of the late great Jake Burton, and head of Burton Snowboards appears on this episode The Bomb Hole podcast.  She is a badass but to be short she is essentially like a matriarch for the sport of Snowboarding.  She is constantly looking out for the best interest of the sport and making sure it is shown and marketed in the best of light.  Listen to her get candid about the International Olympic Committee and how they screwed up turn after turn and she took them to task for it.  Showing real leadership and authenticity that is truly rad and tone applauded in because its so lacking in this day in age.  She was and is so inspiring.  All the charities and charitable causes Burton spearheads and is involved in.  I have to ask myself, why or how do we not have similar leadership in our industry?  Donna is a rock star I believe and I want more people to hear her story and vision.  We have great companies and people but Burton takes giving back and being the changes they want to see better than probably any company in the Outdoor Sports Industry.  Our sport -- A sport/ a art form/ a industry all about the same age as snowboarding with so manny parallels -- we can learn from each other.  Be inspired by each other.  I know the riders are.  I believe we can learn and take something from this leadership example Donna has set. The amount of community projects and initiatives that Burton and Donna spearhead are amazing examples of how to lead and give back to build a bigger better strong community of ridership and riding.  Attached is a link to her podcast in hopes that others can see what I find is seriously inspiring at a very pivotal time in our sport and industry.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-KyV-aUXM

Please the bike industry is run by a bunch of greedy guys, I hope we a see an implosion of more brands and definitely bike shops, you guys deserve it. The smart and strong will survive.

32

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