2024 Racing Talk

sspomer
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12/19/2023 3:35pm

here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb insta followers don't watch live world cup dh racing. tragic. hopefully WBD lawyers don't come after the poachers LOL.

WCwatchStats.png?VersionId=BSzT2tsLTey2Znh7WqQ0kIxZr

2
chriskief
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12/19/2023 4:14pm
sspomer wrote:
here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb...

here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb insta followers don't watch live world cup dh racing. tragic. hopefully WBD lawyers don't come after the poachers LOL.

WCwatchStats.png?VersionId=BSzT2tsLTey2Znh7WqQ0kIxZr

Didn't even bother with the option for "Didn't watch before 2023 WBD/GCN+" Laughing

sspomer
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12/19/2023 4:34pm

last option - "i don't watch"

2
chriskief
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12/19/2023 4:38pm Edited Date/Time 12/19/2023 4:39pm
sspomer wrote:

last option - "i don't watch"

No, I mean didn't watch in 2022 or before, started watching in 2023 (thinking back to Carlson's quote about massive amounts of new viewers).

Curly
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12/19/2023 4:57pm

uh..... whats this Vital?!
 

image-20231219165703-1

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veefour
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12/20/2023 1:34am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 1:36am
sspomer wrote:
here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb...

here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb insta followers don't watch live world cup dh racing. tragic. hopefully WBD lawyers don't come after the poachers LOL.

WCwatchStats.png?VersionId=BSzT2tsLTey2Znh7WqQ0kIxZr

Tiz has been showing the grand tours for the whole time that WB/Discovery have owned Eurosport (since 2015). When you look at the viewership of those races and the potential lost revenue I don't think any of us DH poachers  have too much to worry about. Grinning

3
fartsack
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12/20/2023 2:01am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 2:12am
sspomer wrote:
here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb...

here are results from that insta poll we did. metaZuckerberg said 7k participated, so pretty good data. the saddest part is that 20% of vital mtb insta followers don't watch live world cup dh racing. tragic. hopefully WBD lawyers don't come after the poachers LOL.

WCwatchStats.png?VersionId=BSzT2tsLTey2Znh7WqQ0kIxZr

one can only imagine if 55% of the vital fanbase didn't watch worldcups in 2023 and 20% doesnt even bother watching the worldcups at all, how bad it is in the world out there Sad  

 

a cashflow driven corporate company like discovery will pull the plug quicker  than the keyboard warriors moan about the fee rising.

 

edit: and i hope WB will come after the poachers! cmon, not paying for a service if you like it is ridiculous.

8
veefour
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12/20/2023 2:22am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 2:25am
fartsack wrote:
one can only imagine if 55% of the vital fanbase didn't watch worldcups in 2023 and 20% doesnt even bother watching the worldcups at all, how...

one can only imagine if 55% of the vital fanbase didn't watch worldcups in 2023 and 20% doesnt even bother watching the worldcups at all, how bad it is in the world out there Sad  

 

a cashflow driven corporate company like discovery will pull the plug quicker  than the keyboard warriors moan about the fee rising.

 

edit: and i hope WB will come after the poachers! cmon, not paying for a service if you like it is ridiculous.

The bottom line is I don't like it enough to pay for it if I don't have to and I dislike Discovery as a company. What they've done with Max will just lead to more poachers. Are you one of those people who believe the riders will see any of that subscription money? Good luck with that.

3
fartsack
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12/20/2023 2:38am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 3:34am

if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough.

it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just so little they don't have to pay for it. so it wouldn't be a problem for most if racing and or streamin will be shut.

will discovery pay riders? probably not or not yet. if not even the special interest fans are keen on racing who should be? so why paying the "actors"?

the thing is if we stay the cheap bastards we are and watch it from whatever site we don't have to pay a dime or not at all, streaming will be shut. lots of sponsoring and partnerships will be cancelled, riders and teams will get kicked/shut and not get any rise, nor getting paid at all.

the goal in my eyes should be: generating money from outside industry partners. and THEY will pay riders. can you imagine a "Grundig Cup" like it used to be? Can you imagine Samsung/Siemens/Barilla [insert whatever brand] will step up and sponsor the worldcup and bring back the money the worldcup once had?

frankly, no outside the industrie partner will ever jump aboard if not even the "fans" are willing to commit to a streaming plattform and or consuming racing as it is.

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veefour
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12/20/2023 3:14am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 3:23am
fartsack wrote:
if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough. it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just...

if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough.

it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just so little they don't have to pay for it. so it wouldn't be a problem for most if racing and or streamin will be shut.

will discovery pay riders? probably not or not yet. if not even the special interest fans are keen on racing who should be? so why paying the "actors"?

the thing is if we stay the cheap bastards we are and watch it from whatever site we don't have to pay a dime or not at all, streaming will be shut. lots of sponsoring and partnerships will be cancelled, riders and teams will get kicked/shut and not get any rise, nor getting paid at all.

the goal in my eyes should be: generating money from outside industry partners. and THEY will pay riders. can you imagine a "Grundig Cup" like it used to be? Can you imagine Samsung/Siemens/Barilla [insert whatever brand] will step up and sponsor the worldcup and bring back the money the worldcup once had?

frankly, no outside the industrie partner will ever jump aboard if not even the "fans" are willing to commit to a streaming plattform and or consuming racing as it is.

Out of interest do you think we should be paying to watch Vital Raw, as the same arguments can be made?

4
fartsack
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12/20/2023 3:31am Edited Date/Time 12/20/2023 3:48am
fartsack wrote:
if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough. it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just...

if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough.

it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just so little they don't have to pay for it. so it wouldn't be a problem for most if racing and or streamin will be shut.

will discovery pay riders? probably not or not yet. if not even the special interest fans are keen on racing who should be? so why paying the "actors"?

the thing is if we stay the cheap bastards we are and watch it from whatever site we don't have to pay a dime or not at all, streaming will be shut. lots of sponsoring and partnerships will be cancelled, riders and teams will get kicked/shut and not get any rise, nor getting paid at all.

the goal in my eyes should be: generating money from outside industry partners. and THEY will pay riders. can you imagine a "Grundig Cup" like it used to be? Can you imagine Samsung/Siemens/Barilla [insert whatever brand] will step up and sponsor the worldcup and bring back the money the worldcup once had?

frankly, no outside the industrie partner will ever jump aboard if not even the "fans" are willing to commit to a streaming plattform and or consuming racing as it is.

veefour wrote:

Out of interest do you think we should be paying to watch Vital Raw, as the same arguments can be made?

service needs to be paid as nothing is for free.

rider vlogs are paid mostly by outside industry partners, plus rider sponsors.

how outside industry: the platform (mostly YT in this case)  made the transformation to all industries with ads. if you don't want ads: it's the user who pays. would i pay for YT? no i'd rather watch ads, since i'm mostly not a vlog guy anyway. a couple of riders made the transission to subscription platforms like onlyfans and charge the user directly. (plus only fans as a sponsor)

same goes for vital raw. in this case it's adpartners on the website and raw is a "marketing tool" to drive up reach and website clicks. other than that vital raw is hosted on YT, so the same as above.

would i pay for vital mtb? no sure probably yes.

bottom line: if the quality is good and has some added value, people will pay for it. for example in my case with vital raw. another example newsplatforms: i consume news through free newsplatforms that are littered with ads. but i also consume news through a paid subsription with way more depth to the stories and better journalism. this is the aded value to it. consuming news as news doen't have that much of value to me. the quality does.

 

edit: sorry for the thread derailment, i'll shut up now :D

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Mr.Nally
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12/20/2023 7:15am
fartsack wrote:
if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough. it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just...

if you don't like it enough to pay for it, fair enough.

it seems lot of people don't care much at all about racing or just so little they don't have to pay for it. so it wouldn't be a problem for most if racing and or streamin will be shut.

will discovery pay riders? probably not or not yet. if not even the special interest fans are keen on racing who should be? so why paying the "actors"?

the thing is if we stay the cheap bastards we are and watch it from whatever site we don't have to pay a dime or not at all, streaming will be shut. lots of sponsoring and partnerships will be cancelled, riders and teams will get kicked/shut and not get any rise, nor getting paid at all.

the goal in my eyes should be: generating money from outside industry partners. and THEY will pay riders. can you imagine a "Grundig Cup" like it used to be? Can you imagine Samsung/Siemens/Barilla [insert whatever brand] will step up and sponsor the worldcup and bring back the money the worldcup once had?

frankly, no outside the industrie partner will ever jump aboard if not even the "fans" are willing to commit to a streaming plattform and or consuming racing as it is.

Very close to some of my points I've made before in this debate. Keeping the cozy UCI run, RBTV broadcast series was always going to reach a dead end of sorts (probably very soon). In terms of potential for outside sponsorship etc. 

While things were great for lots of "real" fans. It's clear that the ones who won't now tune in care more for their entertainment than they do the sport. Which is fine of course. But, you can't have the cake and it it and all that. 

More prize money for riders, more outside sponsors, more professionalism etc... have all been called for... but at the same time the same fans want to keep 150 privateers, see safety improved, keep the TV free to air etc...

I honestly don't know if fans realize how good we have it in terms of social media access, access to riders at races, web coverage for many sources etc... compared to more established sports we kind of have an amazing deal. But if the sport is gonna progress it needs something along the lines of what WBD have planned. Sadly not all growth is good.

So time will tell. But all the conspiracy stuff about how WDB want to "kill" the sport is nonsense. They've got an eight year investment that they need return on. 

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sharpy212
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12/25/2023 1:43pm

What if….. instead of everyone that qualifies, the top 30 are in the finials (full runs televised) and everyone else that qualifies below the top 30 does the semi finals.. recorded and highlights condensed to show before the main the main event. 

No idea how the points system could work. 

The coverage at times this year just felt to long, and when it got the the finals it kinda lost its shine after watching hours of riding before hand. Even if a rider went down… straight on to the next rider, no time to even see if they were all right. 

Show a pre show before the main event, given you a recap who qualified the day before. Who won the semi finals event. Rider interview. That’s the kinda thing I thought Discovery was going to bring, but it just didn’t deliver in some aspects. 

And maybe just leave the drone footage for open areas.. low down side on shots to show the speed the riders are going. You don’t need to try include it at every round, only places it works. 

 

Losifer
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12/28/2023 10:12am
sspomer wrote:
The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill-series-announced-2024

The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill…

1a Monster Energy Pro DH Logo Badge 1

Hallelujah!

I may have to drive to SoCal in August. 
 

You know, to visit the in-laws…

2
hreylalno
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12/28/2023 11:44am
sspomer wrote:
The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill-series-announced-2024

The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill…

1a Monster Energy Pro DH Logo Badge 1

Throw in a NW Cup, DH Rockies, and BMDH round and we'll have ourselves the world's most diverse DH series (terrain wise). SoCal dust, East Coast grease, the high alpine Rockies, and PNW loam in a single series?!

6
TayRob
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12/28/2023 2:03pm
sspomer wrote:
The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill-series-announced-2024

The USA has a National Downhill Series - Monster Energy Pro Downhill

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/monster-energy-pro-downhill…

1a Monster Energy Pro DH Logo Badge 1

hreylalno wrote:
Throw in a NW Cup, DH Rockies, and BMDH round and we'll have ourselves the world's most diverse DH series (terrain wise). SoCal dust, East Coast...

Throw in a NW Cup, DH Rockies, and BMDH round and we'll have ourselves the world's most diverse DH series (terrain wise). SoCal dust, East Coast grease, the high alpine Rockies, and PNW loam in a single series?!

Seriously incredible news, and to hear this is title sponsored by a massive, somewhat outside the industry company is even better news! 
 

I’m stoked to see where they take it. I hope it turns into a multi event weekend style thing, with XC, DH and maybe some slalom/pump track so we can have a now a days NORBA!

9
funktekk
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12/28/2023 2:11pm

Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains momentum we could see the relevance of the World Cup fade.

2
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Stewyeww
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12/28/2023 6:49pm

A big us series is great, hopefuly it goes well and is able to expand and challenge the UCI events in the comming years.

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BGoldstone
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12/28/2023 10:39pm
Stewyeww wrote:

A big us series is great, hopefuly it goes well and is able to expand and challenge the UCI events in the comming years.

These are UCI events. Most likely the goal is to be a feeder series for WC like the IXS cup

2
Stewyeww
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12/29/2023 8:00am Edited Date/Time 12/29/2023 8:04am
Stewyeww wrote:

A big us series is great, hopefuly it goes well and is able to expand and challenge the UCI events in the comming years.

BGoldstone wrote:

These are UCI events. Most likely the goal is to be a feeder series for WC like the IXS cup

Ahh I see, I thought they might be going for the (sory for the MX comparison) US based SX/MX series and then the MXGP's which monster is title sponsor for both.

swoopswoop
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12/29/2023 4:36pm
funktekk wrote:
Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains...

Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains momentum we could see the relevance of the World Cup fade.

Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National level racing...

1
hreylalno
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12/30/2023 12:34pm
funktekk wrote:
Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains...

Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains momentum we could see the relevance of the World Cup fade.

swoopswoop wrote:
Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National...

Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National level racing...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

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mcfadden999
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12/30/2023 1:17pm
funktekk wrote:
Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains...

Too bad WB/D is too out of touch to know what a threat this could be to their product. Not this year, but if this gains momentum we could see the relevance of the World Cup fade.

swoopswoop wrote:
Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National...

Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National level racing...

hreylalno wrote:
Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

You really think this series is a threat to them, the best athletes in the world will stay race the wc series, these other series are just for B and C level racers that can’t qualify for a wc. This is the way it should be.

1
swoopswoop
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12/30/2023 1:18pm
hreylalno wrote:
Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as a feeder for riders and viewers for World Cups in a way. A rising tide lifts all ships, etc...

hogfly
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12/30/2023 4:52pm
swoopswoop wrote:
Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National...

Unless this is what they want to help facilitate their plan of reduced team/rider numbers at World Cups? The only way that works is stronger National level racing...

hreylalno wrote:
Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

You really think this series is a threat to them, the best athletes in the world will stay race the wc series, these other series are...

You really think this series is a threat to them, the best athletes in the world will stay race the wc series, these other series are just for B and C level racers that can’t qualify for a wc. This is the way it should be.

They keep throwing around 10k prize purses like at the US Open, and you might see some of “the best”  riders prioritize the series. 

4
ak_trnsplnt
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12/30/2023 9:23pm
hreylalno wrote:
Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite...

Stronger national-level racing might be the outcome of the shrinking WC field, but I doubt it was intentional. I'd bet someone at WB/Disco is actually quite displeased with the announcement of the Monster US Pro series, especially since Monster has the capital and incentive to broadcast the new series.

swoopswoop wrote:
Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as...

Possibly, although it's unlikely a US-only series would ever really rival the World Cups (or at least any time soon), so it all still acts as a feeder for riders and viewers for World Cups in a way. A rising tide lifts all ships, etc...

A US only series rivaled the World Cup in the not so distant past. At the height of the NORBA series all of the big names would show and the series was on actual broadcast TV in the US. I’m not saying a 4 round startup will recreate the success of the past just dropping a reminder that the UCI World Cup hasn’t always been the only game in town. Especially for top North American talent. Obviously the way we consume media has changed and it’s far easier to get information on the WCs now than in 90s but I see some renewed incentive for the large US based bicycle industry to engage in and support a healthy US race ecosystem. 

5
sethimus
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12/31/2023 2:56am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2023 2:57am

how many stops did the norba races had per year when they were the most succesful?

Wipperman_95
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12/31/2023 5:26am
Mr.Nally wrote:
Very close to some of my points I've made before in this debate. Keeping the cozy UCI run, RBTV broadcast series was always going to reach...

Very close to some of my points I've made before in this debate. Keeping the cozy UCI run, RBTV broadcast series was always going to reach a dead end of sorts (probably very soon). In terms of potential for outside sponsorship etc. 

While things were great for lots of "real" fans. It's clear that the ones who won't now tune in care more for their entertainment than they do the sport. Which is fine of course. But, you can't have the cake and it it and all that. 

More prize money for riders, more outside sponsors, more professionalism etc... have all been called for... but at the same time the same fans want to keep 150 privateers, see safety improved, keep the TV free to air etc...

I honestly don't know if fans realize how good we have it in terms of social media access, access to riders at races, web coverage for many sources etc... compared to more established sports we kind of have an amazing deal. But if the sport is gonna progress it needs something along the lines of what WBD have planned. Sadly not all growth is good.

So time will tell. But all the conspiracy stuff about how WDB want to "kill" the sport is nonsense. They've got an eight year investment that they need return on. 

I made a similar point elsewhere; RBTV did a lot for the sport, and put it back on track. However, nothing was really changing year after year - anything from 6-9 World Cups, and only live coverage of Elite XCC, XCO & DHI......

That's not going to grow the sport - and bring in outside industry sponsors, is it? And non MTB cycling media hardly bothered with the sport....that also needed to change, whether people on here like it or not. 

I was disappointed when RBTV lost the rights - but something had to change; UCI & WBDsports figured putting the coverage on the same channels as road, track cycling & CX makes sense.....(in theory). Time will tell.....

Trek Factory Racing have XC, DHI, Enduro, plus World Tour road teams which have managed to snag sponsorship from Lidl - But nothing for the MTB teams. I wonder why? Less than 10 weekends a year isn't cutting it from a sponsors view. And non World Cup events get very little, if any live coverage.......

MTB has been the poor relation for too long....something had to change.

 

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