So many bones to pick with that vid. The outgoing Zerode Katipo is very capable and aside from the seat tube angle I have very few...
So many bones to pick with that vid. The outgoing Zerode Katipo is very capable and aside from the seat tube angle I have very few complaints. It's a pleasure to ride. Much more satisfying ride quality than my SB Yetis. It is an enduro bike and they all climb tolerably at best in general race trim with the ethos of get it to the top, make it ride really fast on the way down. I have only washed the belt and lubed the idler in my season and a half of riding. No issues...
With a cable grip shift (or DIY trigger) gearbox setup you can feel the system release pressure and permit a shift as you let off the pedal torque. I kind of preload the shifter and feel it jump into place. An then when it clicks in, it's in. No tickticktick smack bang like from a derailleur, especially in low gears where a big cog jump would be needed. The low gear instant indexing is actually where I appreciate the Pinion the most. Want to go from 5th to 2nd? Just time a pedal stroke letup and twist or do it while coasting. Done.
I have a handful of races on my Katipo. Being able to change gears without needing a risky pedal stroke to set in the new gear is an advantage IF you have the skill and foresight to get it right. I have been burned on an unforseen increase in climb grade while sprinting, but that was on me for try to "SS legs" in too high of a gear in the first place.
Gearbox is a hard sell but if you take the dive with an open mind it's a lot of fun, quiet and low maintenance for general enduro riding. 32" wheels are probably a worse compromise (4).
I loved my Taniwha till I tried more updated geometry 😄 As much as I love the idea of the Smart Shift, I feel like it actually neuters the bike with the slower shifts. The gripshift is so quick and has such a short throw, so you can grab so many gears. The amount of time you actually need to back off the pedals to shift is so short. You're only limited by how quickly you can twist the thing. I was really disappointed with the Cinq shifters. I have video somewhere. If I remember right, I could get through all 12 gears with the gripshift in just over a second, not that you'd need to, while the Cinq was almost 1 second per gear
So many bones to pick with that vid. The outgoing Zerode Katipo is very capable and aside from the seat tube angle I have very few...
So many bones to pick with that vid. The outgoing Zerode Katipo is very capable and aside from the seat tube angle I have very few complaints. It's a pleasure to ride. Much more satisfying ride quality than my SB Yetis. It is an enduro bike and they all climb tolerably at best in general race trim with the ethos of get it to the top, make it ride really fast on the way down. I have only washed the belt and lubed the idler in my season and a half of riding. No issues...
With a cable grip shift (or DIY trigger) gearbox setup you can feel the system release pressure and permit a shift as you let off the pedal torque. I kind of preload the shifter and feel it jump into place. An then when it clicks in, it's in. No tickticktick smack bang like from a derailleur, especially in low gears where a big cog jump would be needed. The low gear instant indexing is actually where I appreciate the Pinion the most. Want to go from 5th to 2nd? Just time a pedal stroke letup and twist or do it while coasting. Done.
I have a handful of races on my Katipo. Being able to change gears without needing a risky pedal stroke to set in the new gear is an advantage IF you have the skill and foresight to get it right. I have been burned on an unforseen increase in climb grade while sprinting, but that was on me for try to "SS legs" in too high of a gear in the first place.
Gearbox is a hard sell but if you take the dive with an open mind it's a lot of fun, quiet and low maintenance for general enduro riding. 32" wheels are probably a worse compromise (4).
I loved my Taniwha till I tried more updated geometry 😄 As much as I love the idea of the Smart Shift, I feel like it actually...
I loved my Taniwha till I tried more updated geometry 😄 As much as I love the idea of the Smart Shift, I feel like it actually neuters the bike with the slower shifts. The gripshift is so quick and has such a short throw, so you can grab so many gears. The amount of time you actually need to back off the pedals to shift is so short. You're only limited by how quickly you can twist the thing. I was really disappointed with the Cinq shifters. I have video somewhere. If I remember right, I could get through all 12 gears with the gripshift in just over a second, not that you'd need to, while the Cinq was almost 1 second per gear
I also loved my Taniwha but could not go back to it after trying a newer bike because of the geo. That side I was a massive fan of the pinion and will for sure have another one some day. I think the shifting gets blown out of proportion. I would just time my shifts when my pedals were are 12 and 6 position and ease up a bit on the power and you could shift no problem. I was very against the grip shift at first but after some time on it I liked it.
I think the same review (tanihwa review maybe?) that mentioned the shifting with a servo motor under full power on the assembly line also mentioned that you could preload a shift and it would click in when you let off the pedals. That doesn't work with electronic shifting though, just like regular shifting, with a cable you have a lot more feel.
As gor spacing out or delaying shifts, again it's like letting up on the pedals, it's just good practice. Running a Garbaruk cassette this becomes more important as it's not as tolerant to multi shifts to easier gears as stock Sram Eagle cassettes are, but still, letting the chain wrap around a ring at least a little before shifting again makes sense and lowers the stress on the chain. I think a big reason we have the ability to shift 3 or 4 gears on trigger shifters is marketing and we'd be better off having only single click ebikeesque trigger shifters.
Long time reader, first time poster. I've heard rumours of an an Ibis HD7 this year from my LBS, and just noticed that the Ibis Ripmo &...
Long time reader, first time poster.
I've heard rumours of an an Ibis HD7 this year from my LBS, and just noticed that the Ibis Ripmo & Ripley have had their build specs updated with the new deore groupset yet the HD6 hasn't..
I’ve heard of a longer travel 29er which I’d assume would be the updated HD since ibis just uses flip chips for mullet now. Not sure...
I’ve heard of a longer travel 29er which I’d assume would be the updated HD since ibis just uses flip chips for mullet now. Not sure on timeline though. I’ve also been meaning to message Jank components if they have tried long stroking the ripmo with their long chainstay links. Jumping to 65 stroke should give a ripmo close to 162mm travel.
Updated HD6 seems like the most logical step for Ibis considering they've refreshed the Ripmo/Ripley, Ripley SL, and OSO in the past few years.
I really hope they take the OSO platform/mentality and apply it to the updated HD7 with the ability to swap wheel sizes and modular dropouts.
Shame effigear can't get their act together. I genuinely think it's a better design; no double seal needed for concentric output, no overdrive, etc means out of the box there is a huge potential for efficiency gains, not to mention the removal of an idler.
Spotted an interesting DH bike in Verbier today, gearbox, high pivot and the rider was wearing what looks a Whyte Bikes t-shirt
Spotted an interesting DH bike in Verbier today, gearbox, high pivot and the rider was wearing what looks a Whyte Bikes t-shirt
Frame looks like a bonded aluminum construction similar to what Frameworks was playing around with. That headtube looks familiar but can’t I remember where I’ve seen it.
Frame looks like a bonded aluminum construction similar to what Frameworks was playing around with. That headtube looks familiar but can’t I remember where I’ve seen...
Frame looks like a bonded aluminum construction similar to what Frameworks was playing around with. That headtube looks familiar but can’t I remember where I’ve seen it.
Faction bike studio products?
@hamncheez2003 Effigear needs the output ring to be driven forward relative to the pedals to release the mechanism and be able to shift. With a rear freehub, you actually need to backpedal to be able to shift, not only lower the power output.
Faction bike studio products?@hamncheez2003 Effigear needs the output ring to be driven forward relative to the pedals to release the mechanism and be able to...
Faction bike studio products?
@hamncheez2003 Effigear needs the output ring to be driven forward relative to the pedals to release the mechanism and be able to shift. With a rear freehub, you actually need to backpedal to be able to shift, not only lower the power output.
That can/should be changed.
All reviews I've seen of the effigear, it's not that great. I'm saying that their layout has the potential to be much more efficient than a Pinion + idler pulley. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pinion works with 4 gears plus 3 overdrives; that's four potential stages of efficiency loss, plus the seals required for concentric output adds a ton of drag too.
PS: YET ANOTHER source of drag is that all gears are always at least partially engaged at all times, so even though most of the gears are not connected to an output path they still spin. For both Pinion and Effigear. This makes a measurable difference to our 1/4 horsepower legs. I'd imagine it would be easier to implement a dual selector design on the Effigear layout, such that only the engaged gears would spin.
All this gearbox talk has me thinking about all the ones that didn’t take off ~Graduation (Friends forever) by Vitamin C plays ~ I also wonder what a...
All this gearbox talk has me thinking about all the ones that didn’t take off
~Graduation (Friends forever) by Vitamin C plays ~
I also wonder what a new look at either setup could yield
I think this was brought up a few pages back, or maybe in the Demo forum? Cesar Rojo and Shimano have the necessary patents for this. Maybe Cesar implements it on an Unno?
Would also love to see this modernized. I’ve always thought 2 small cassette clusters in series could give you the range and close jumps while only driving a one set of cogs at a time. Use the Demo output shaft method and the form factor could be pretty small.
Hard to imagine that setup getting small enough to be practical. As it is, there would be pretty significant constraints on suspension design to work around that. Could you imagine that at last year's Les Gets DH race? I guess you could try to box it in to try to keep mud out. Hard to see this being a better option than Pinion.
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still remember this piece from MBAction
I'm glad you mentioned that product! I've been moonlighting as a copywriter in my freetime, and working on that stem project has been some of my proudest work so far:
"Imagine starting your ride, rolling into the terrain on large 32″ wheels, and immediately feeling it: the handling is on point. Every steering input feels controlled, stable, and precise. That’s exactly why we developed this MTB stem specifically for bikes with 32″ wheels – tailored to the unique demands of a modern 32" setup."
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still...
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still remember this piece from MBAction
I'm glad you mentioned that product! I've been moonlighting as a copywriter in my freetime, and working on that stem project has been some of my...
I'm glad you mentioned that product! I've been moonlighting as a copywriter in my freetime, and working on that stem project has been some of my proudest work so far:
"Imagine starting your ride, rolling into the terrain on large 32″ wheels, and immediately feeling it: the handling is on point. Every steering input feels controlled, stable, and precise. That’s exactly why we developed this MTB stem specifically for bikes with 32″ wheels – tailored to the unique demands of a modern 32" setup."
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still...
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still remember this piece from MBAction
Surely that patent is expired by now if it was purchased by Hayes in 2004?
Exactly, the argument of "der-in-a-box didn't get traction because The Industry™ won't allow us to have nice things" has been buried side by side with these patents for a long time.
Weight is still the main deterrent for massive gearbox adoption IMHO.
I loved my Taniwha till I tried more updated geometry 😄
As much as I love the idea of the Smart Shift, I feel like it actually neuters the bike with the slower shifts. The gripshift is so quick and has such a short throw, so you can grab so many gears. The amount of time you actually need to back off the pedals to shift is so short. You're only limited by how quickly you can twist the thing. I was really disappointed with the Cinq shifters. I have video somewhere. If I remember right, I could get through all 12 gears with the gripshift in just over a second, not that you'd need to, while the Cinq was almost 1 second per gear
I also loved my Taniwha but could not go back to it after trying a newer bike because of the geo. That side I was a massive fan of the pinion and will for sure have another one some day. I think the shifting gets blown out of proportion. I would just time my shifts when my pedals were are 12 and 6 position and ease up a bit on the power and you could shift no problem. I was very against the grip shift at first but after some time on it I liked it.
I think the same review (tanihwa review maybe?) that mentioned the shifting with a servo motor under full power on the assembly line also mentioned that you could preload a shift and it would click in when you let off the pedals. That doesn't work with electronic shifting though, just like regular shifting, with a cable you have a lot more feel.
As gor spacing out or delaying shifts, again it's like letting up on the pedals, it's just good practice. Running a Garbaruk cassette this becomes more important as it's not as tolerant to multi shifts to easier gears as stock Sram Eagle cassettes are, but still, letting the chain wrap around a ring at least a little before shifting again makes sense and lowers the stress on the chain. I think a big reason we have the ability to shift 3 or 4 gears on trigger shifters is marketing and we'd be better off having only single click ebikeesque trigger shifters.
Updated HD6 seems like the most logical step for Ibis considering they've refreshed the Ripmo/Ripley, Ripley SL, and OSO in the past few years.
I really hope they take the OSO platform/mentality and apply it to the updated HD7 with the ability to swap wheel sizes and modular dropouts.
Spotted an interesting DH bike in Verbier today, gearbox, high pivot and the rider was wearing what looks a Whyte Bikes t-shirt
arguing about gearbox shifting sucks. Take it to a new thread please.
Welcome to the thread.
Definitely a Whyte logo, could conceivably be mr Joe Barnes himself. Bike has the very specialized-esque four bar Whyte uses.
Shame effigear can't get their act together. I genuinely think it's a better design; no double seal needed for concentric output, no overdrive, etc means out of the box there is a huge potential for efficiency gains, not to mention the removal of an idler.
Touché
Frame looks like a bonded aluminum construction similar to what Frameworks was playing around with. That headtube looks familiar but can’t I remember where I’ve seen it.
Faction bike studio products?
@hamncheez2003 Effigear needs the output ring to be driven forward relative to the pedals to release the mechanism and be able to shift. With a rear freehub, you actually need to backpedal to be able to shift, not only lower the power output.
That can/should be changed.
All reviews I've seen of the effigear, it's not that great. I'm saying that their layout has the potential to be much more efficient than a Pinion + idler pulley. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pinion works with 4 gears plus 3 overdrives; that's four potential stages of efficiency loss, plus the seals required for concentric output adds a ton of drag too.
PS: YET ANOTHER source of drag is that all gears are always at least partially engaged at all times, so even though most of the gears are not connected to an output path they still spin. For both Pinion and Effigear. This makes a measurable difference to our 1/4 horsepower legs. I'd imagine it would be easier to implement a dual selector design on the Effigear layout, such that only the engaged gears would spin.
All this gearbox talk has me thinking about all the ones that didn’t take off
~Graduation (Friends forever) by Vitamin C plays ~
I also wonder what a new look at either setup could yield
I think this was brought up a few pages back, or maybe in the Demo forum? Cesar Rojo and Shimano have the necessary patents for this. Maybe Cesar implements it on an Unno?
Would also love to see this modernized. I’ve always thought 2 small cassette clusters in series could give you the range and close jumps while only driving a one set of cogs at a time. Use the Demo output shaft method and the form factor could be pretty small.
20 years later, everything is getting re-invented again
Patent link - https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/48/70/fb/31993667ee2adb/WO2007121690A1.pdf
WRP were still plugging away at the derailleur in a can concept last year but who knows where it falls on their list of priorities, guy seems to have a million good ideas and no time to get them all out https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/sea-otter-2025-day-1-part-1/wi…
Hard to imagine that setup getting small enough to be practical. As it is, there would be pretty significant constraints on suspension design to work around that. Could you imagine that at last year's Les Gets DH race? I guess you could try to box it in to try to keep mud out. Hard to see this being a better option than Pinion.
Aftermarket hardware to support 32" XC bikes starting to show up:
https://shop.radoxx.de/en/Stem-XC-32/StemXC32
Didn't Hayes buy the patent for the PeteSpeed (horrible name BTW) derailleur-in-a-can variant from Be One and then bury it in a drawer somewhere? I still remember this piece from MBAction
https://mbaction.com/hayes-to-market-chain-driven-gearbox-system-oct-5/
I'm glad you mentioned that product! I've been moonlighting as a copywriter in my freetime, and working on that stem project has been some of my proudest work so far:
"Imagine starting your ride, rolling into the terrain on large 32″ wheels, and immediately feeling it: the handling is on point. Every steering input feels controlled, stable, and precise. That’s exactly why we developed this MTB stem specifically for bikes with 32″ wheels – tailored to the unique demands of a modern 32" setup."
Just imagine it.
Surely that patent is expired by now if it was purchased by Hayes in 2004?
Imagining intensifies.
Exactly, the argument of "der-in-a-box didn't get traction because The Industry™ won't allow us to have nice things" has been buried side by side with these patents for a long time.
Weight is still the main deterrent for massive gearbox adoption IMHO.
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