E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment

jsray
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10/22/2025 4:50pm
segamethod wrote:
Gonna guess this is not folks here's idea of the perfect ebike (though they will let you spend $200 to slap on some Kenda's with the...

Gonna guess this is not folks here's idea of the perfect ebike (though they will let you spend $200 to slap on some Kenda's with the "offroad" package), but Rivian spin-off "ALSO" announced their thing today: TM-B – ALSO

Apparently features in-house suspension, anti-lock brakes, and (most interestingly to me) a super unique mid drive motor system. From what they've released so far, there is no gearbox or mechanical connection to the cranks whatsoever. The cranks drive a motor, while the main motor direct drives the rear wheel at whatever it guesses feels about right. Presumably this also means that the cranks do pretty much nothing when the battery dies (or the bike is "locked"). No idea if the execution is any good, but it's a seriously novel way to sidestep needing a traditional derailleur or even a gearbox. Sadly, sounds like they locked it up with a patent -- though I haven't looked for it.


lolz

IMG 4817.jpeg?VersionId=zK
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gbcoke
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10/26/2025 1:38pm
unnamed 4.jpg?VersionId=o4wtl.ktI50 ki.2cRvuvQZa

Carbon pinion MGU Zerode ??

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thresh
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10/26/2025 9:59pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2025 10:00pm

are brakes translucent?

what's up with the ex471 logos?

why is the seatpost collar that high?

where are the cranks?

does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?

what makes such a large shadow on the non-drive side?

 

So many questions, and I hope the answer isnt the obvaious one ...

2
gbcoke
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10/26/2025 10:41pm
thresh wrote:
are brakes translucent?what's up with the ex471 logos?why is the seatpost collar that high?where are the cranks?does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?what...

are brakes translucent?

what's up with the ex471 logos?

why is the seatpost collar that high?

where are the cranks?

does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?

what makes such a large shadow on the non-drive side?

 

So many questions, and I hope the answer isnt the obvaious one ...

This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

IMG 7178 0
1
6
boozed
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10/27/2025 1:15am
thresh wrote:
are brakes translucent?what's up with the ex471 logos?why is the seatpost collar that high?where are the cranks?does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?what...

are brakes translucent?

what's up with the ex471 logos?

why is the seatpost collar that high?

where are the cranks?

does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?

what makes such a large shadow on the non-drive side?

 

So many questions, and I hope the answer isnt the obvaious one ...

gbcoke wrote:
This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

IMG 7178 0

Why would you post an AI-altered image here in the first place?

14
sethimus
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10/27/2025 1:19am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2025 1:19am
gbcoke wrote:
This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

IMG 7178 0

and this, kids, is why we can’t have nice things (the fucking reality!!!!) anymore 

6
2
10/27/2025 2:25am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2025 2:31am

The funniest thing is that it (ai) didn't change the brand logo for orange.

4
10/28/2025 9:56am

(sorry if this has already been posted before)

KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds like they're just for Kenevo/Levo SL right now. The concept is interesting though. Makes having just one bike even more of a reality. 

2
10/28/2025 10:14am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 10:59am
(sorry if this has already been posted before)KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds...

(sorry if this has already been posted before)

KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds like they're just for Kenevo/Levo SL right now. The concept is interesting though. Makes having just one bike even more of a reality. 

Orbea developing their downhill bike the way they did seems to have opened up interest in a product like this, smart of them to take advantage of it. 

AndehM
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10/28/2025 10:15am
(sorry if this has already been posted before)KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds...

(sorry if this has already been posted before)

KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds like they're just for Kenevo/Levo SL right now. The concept is interesting though. Makes having just one bike even more of a reality. 

That looks just like what I was imagining.  Does he have a website?  I didn't see one in either the YT or IG videos you posted.  I want him to make one for a Fazua 60.

Blake_Motley
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10/28/2025 1:11pm
(sorry if this has already been posted before)KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds...

(sorry if this has already been posted before)

KrankE MTB is making these motor replacement adaptors. I couldn't find a website or too much detail. Sounds like they're just for Kenevo/Levo SL right now. The concept is interesting though. Makes having just one bike even more of a reality. 

I expected WRP to be the first to do this. Super practical if your one bike is an ebike and you plan to fly with it anywhere

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Blake_Motley
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10/28/2025 1:15pm
thresh wrote:
are brakes translucent?what's up with the ex471 logos?why is the seatpost collar that high?where are the cranks?does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?what...

are brakes translucent?

what's up with the ex471 logos?

why is the seatpost collar that high?

where are the cranks?

does one of the cables/brake lines go to the fork?

what makes such a large shadow on the non-drive side?

 

So many questions, and I hope the answer isnt the obvaious one ...

gbcoke wrote:
This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

This is the original,just removed the helmet with ai so the rest got the treatment as well.

IMG 7178 0

If you had a negative reaction to this post I implore you to channel your rage to the AI in MTB marketing thread

3
10/28/2025 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 1:52pm
AndehM wrote:
That looks just like what I was imagining.  Does he have a website?  I didn't see one in either the YT or IG videos you posted...

That looks just like what I was imagining.  Does he have a website?  I didn't see one in either the YT or IG videos you posted.  I want him to make one for a Fazua 60.

https://www.krankemtb.com/category/all-products

~$450-$500. Close to the cost of a replacement motor. 

1
AndehM
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10/28/2025 2:04pm
AndehM wrote:
That looks just like what I was imagining.  Does he have a website?  I didn't see one in either the YT or IG videos you posted...

That looks just like what I was imagining.  Does he have a website?  I didn't see one in either the YT or IG videos you posted.  I want him to make one for a Fazua 60.

https://www.krankemtb.com/category/all-products

~$450-$500. Close to the cost of a replacement motor. 

When my brother's secondhand YT Decoy's EP8 shit the bed, it cost him $1,200 for a new motor.  The idea of this is appealing to me also when brands stop supporting motors or go out of business - it's a way to keep using the ebike as a bike.

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Suns_PSD
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10/28/2025 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 2:22pm

You can get an e-bike motor rebuilt for <$300. Mostly it's just bearings and seals. Some motors have some random proprietary belt or the like the rebuilder has to source.

10/28/2025 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 2:24pm

If I have this already set up with cranks/chainring/pedals and only have to drop the motor/battery that's like 5 minutes fo easy wrenching. I'd be happy with my emtb as a mtb, it would be a true quiver killer.

AndehM
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10/28/2025 2:33pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
You can get an e-bike motor rebuilt for <$300. Mostly it's just bearings and seals. Some motors have some random proprietary belt or the like the...

You can get an e-bike motor rebuilt for <$300. Mostly it's just bearings and seals. Some motors have some random proprietary belt or the like the rebuilder has to source.

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

5
10/28/2025 2:36pm
If I have this already set up with cranks/chainring/pedals and only have to drop the motor/battery that's like 5 minutes fo easy wrenching. I'd be happy...

If I have this already set up with cranks/chainring/pedals and only have to drop the motor/battery that's like 5 minutes fo easy wrenching. I'd be happy with my emtb as a mtb, it would be a true quiver killer.

With the caveat that a lot of e-MTBs don't pedal as well as regular bikes, because they are designed with less anti-squat properties in the rear linkage (easy to favor the descending side of the equation when the motor literally does the heavy lifting for you). But for those wanting to take their long-travel eeb for a week's vacation at the bike park for example, this looks pretty neat indeed.

2
10/28/2025 3:15pm
iceman2058 wrote:
With the caveat that a lot of e-MTBs don't pedal as well as regular bikes, because they are designed with less anti-squat properties in the rear...

With the caveat that a lot of e-MTBs don't pedal as well as regular bikes, because they are designed with less anti-squat properties in the rear linkage (easy to favor the descending side of the equation when the motor literally does the heavy lifting for you). But for those wanting to take their long-travel eeb for a week's vacation at the bike park for example, this looks pretty neat indeed.

Fair point, park days were my intention. Even if I wanted to take a 180mm travel emtb on a pedally trail the weight, tires, body position, etc would make it miserable. Can't get too extreme with the spectrum of uses but it would be a cool option. Now only for a quick release headtube so I can quickly throw on a double crown. 
Blake_Motley
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10/28/2025 5:08pm
If I have this already set up with cranks/chainring/pedals and only have to drop the motor/battery that's like 5 minutes fo easy wrenching. I'd be happy...

If I have this already set up with cranks/chainring/pedals and only have to drop the motor/battery that's like 5 minutes fo easy wrenching. I'd be happy with my emtb as a mtb, it would be a true quiver killer.

iceman2058 wrote:
With the caveat that a lot of e-MTBs don't pedal as well as regular bikes, because they are designed with less anti-squat properties in the rear...

With the caveat that a lot of e-MTBs don't pedal as well as regular bikes, because they are designed with less anti-squat properties in the rear linkage (easy to favor the descending side of the equation when the motor literally does the heavy lifting for you). But for those wanting to take their long-travel eeb for a week's vacation at the bike park for example, this looks pretty neat indeed.

I’m not sure designers think this way. High power and torque is gonna make the backwards weight shift a lot more aggressive when you accelerate. I could see bike companies favoring higher antisquat since the added mass could mask increased chain tension anyway

1
JVP
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10/28/2025 5:33pm
AndehM wrote:
Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the...

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

Grant Gunderson (sen?) is rebuilding EP8 motors in Bellingham. I've just seen it on IG so no first hand knowledge.

2
10/29/2025 2:49am
I’m not sure designers think this way. High power and torque is gonna make the backwards weight shift a lot more aggressive when you accelerate. I...

I’m not sure designers think this way. High power and torque is gonna make the backwards weight shift a lot more aggressive when you accelerate. I could see bike companies favoring higher antisquat since the added mass could mask increased chain tension anyway

You don't need more anti-squat for a more powerful rider or motor. Anti-squat is anti-squat - i.e. 100% anti-squat cancels out the pedal/power input-generated squat by generating an opposing force that is 100% of the force that causes squat. It doesn't matter how hard you pedal or how hard the motor pushes. As far as I can tell, many designers choose to dial in a bit less anti-squat on the e-MTBs than they would on a regular, pedal-powered MTB, in order to favor descending capabilities. Also, motor output is typically smoother than a pure, human-powered pedal stroke, so you do have less bobbing motion to deal with inherently.

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veefour
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10/29/2025 5:15am Edited Date/Time 10/29/2025 5:16am

The other (probably cheaper) alternative is to buy a dead motor and convert it.

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AndehM
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10/29/2025 6:48am
AndehM wrote:
Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the...

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

JVP wrote:

Grant Gunderson (sen?) is rebuilding EP8 motors in Bellingham. I've just seen it on IG so no first hand knowledge.

Nice, I knew he was doing suspension via TGR forums, didn't realize he'd branched out.

jhome
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10/29/2025 7:35am

 

Unno revealing the next gen avinox? 

May be an image of bicycle and text

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bicycle019
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10/29/2025 8:19am Edited Date/Time 10/29/2025 8:21am
AndehM wrote:
Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the...

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

Fazua has been bought by Porsche who have committed to continuing support for the existing in-market Fazua product for next several years.  This while they push the Fazua design concepts (which were solid, just had execution/quality issues) forward with new iterations using new suppliers/manufacturing locations to address the issues that the current Fazua product has. Expect to see some stuff hit light of day going into next year.  

AndehM
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10/29/2025 8:30am
AndehM wrote:
Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the...

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

bicycle019 wrote:
Fazua has been bought by Porsche who have committed to continuing support for the existing in-market Fazua product for next several years.  This while they push...

Fazua has been bought by Porsche who have committed to continuing support for the existing in-market Fazua product for next several years.  This while they push the Fazua design concepts (which were solid, just had execution/quality issues) forward with new iterations using new suppliers/manufacturing locations to address the issues that the current Fazua product has. Expect to see some stuff hit light of day going into next year.  

Continued support like cancelling the range extender that they promised "soon" at launch a couple years ago, and was a selling point of every brand launch spec'ing their motor?  lol  Instead they try to get you to buy a new main battery for like $900 that is only 50wH (11%) larger.

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ebruner
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10/29/2025 9:06am

For the first time in a long time, porsche is not doing well.  I would not put stake into them holding onto fazua as a brand/effort and would be watching to see if they put any capital into that side of their "business".  It would make sense for them to hold onto it long term, having a foot into the electrified mobility space is a smart play for any auto mfg... Porsche will wise up to the fact that the technology is very much in it's infancy and the development cycles are simultaneously too fast, and too fleeting to be a profitable space to be in.  

Said another way, this space screams of not being worth it to be in early... best to wait and see where the market settles and jump in at that point.  Think of it like tesla with electric cars or apple with phones.  Being first bought them some time, but those that were second learned from those mistakes for free.  

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AndehM
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10/29/2025 9:50am
ebruner wrote:
For the first time in a long time, porsche is not doing well.  I would not put stake into them holding onto fazua as a brand/effort...

For the first time in a long time, porsche is not doing well.  I would not put stake into them holding onto fazua as a brand/effort and would be watching to see if they put any capital into that side of their "business".  It would make sense for them to hold onto it long term, having a foot into the electrified mobility space is a smart play for any auto mfg... Porsche will wise up to the fact that the technology is very much in it's infancy and the development cycles are simultaneously too fast, and too fleeting to be a profitable space to be in.  

Said another way, this space screams of not being worth it to be in early... best to wait and see where the market settles and jump in at that point.  Think of it like tesla with electric cars or apple with phones.  Being first bought them some time, but those that were second learned from those mistakes for free.  

I just read an article the other day that the new Porsche CEO is going to pivot back from developing EVs to focusing on ICE cars/SUVs again.  If their core business doesn't focus on EVs then I could see there being a lot less interest in ebikes as a side business (which could lean on EV systems knowledge).

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/10/porsche-does-u-turn-on-electric-ve…

Suns_PSD
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10/29/2025 9:56am
Suns_PSD wrote:
You can get an e-bike motor rebuilt for <$300. Mostly it's just bearings and seals. Some motors have some random proprietary belt or the like the...

You can get an e-bike motor rebuilt for <$300. Mostly it's just bearings and seals. Some motors have some random proprietary belt or the like the rebuilder has to source.

AndehM wrote:
Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the...

Except Shimano stopped making parts available to 3rd party motor repair shops in the USA, and won't repair them themselves.  Shimano's answer now 100% of the time is "Buy a new motor from us."  There's a few shops in the UK and Poland that I'm aware of still fixing EP8s but the guys in the US stopped for lack of parts.  My local shop keeps dead motors and tries to cannibalize parts from them to help other customers, but it's not sustainable.

Also, what do you think is going to happen when a small motor brand like Fazua goes out of business?

They could just order spec bearings and seals on Amazon. They aren't proprietary.

Is there a specific propreitarty part in Shimano motors that fails.

Anyways, the Shimano motor is outdated. It's a Bosch and Avinox world now.

So many cool motors being released but I'd be reluctant to sway from the top 2 myself.

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