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i've heard conflicting things about which tiers will continue to be mechanical moving forward. a little over a year ago the other site posted an interview with Nick Murdick (shimano mtb product manager) and he was quoted as recognizing the value of a mechanical XT group. so who knows.
Anyone like commuter ebikes?
Excerpts from Bike-EU:
Cowboy's 2024 annual report highlighted risk of bankruptcy amid deepening losses
BRUSSELS, Belgium - Cowboy's 2024 annual report, finalised on 4 August and published after a significant delay a month later, shows a company scrambling to find new financiers amidst declining profits. It also sheds new light on Cowboy's recent recall and the financial toll that it took on the young Brussels-based company.
Ominously, Cowboy stated in its financial overview that, “based on current projections, management advises that without a firm outlook for substantial additional financing in the coming weeks, the company will run out of cash and will no longer be able to meet its payment obligations necessary for the continuity of its operational activities, with the need to file for bankruptcy in the short term.”
In 2024, the company posted a net loss of €25.9 million, widening from €21.7 million in 2023. At the same time, revenue fell nearly 36% from €33.7 million in 2023 to €21.7 million in 2024. A full trajectory of the company’s losses and revenue since its 2017 roots as a start-up is below.
But they claim things are improving, so maybe they'll be around for a while.
“The annual report reflects Cowboy’s position at the end of 2024. Since then, our situation has evolved considerably,” a spokesperson for Cowboy wrote. “2025 is already showing encouraging signs of recovery, with our focus firmly on execution and delivering for our riders.”
Some light Sunday reading about YT's future for anyone who cares. In short, they need to some relatively large changes, even if they are lucky enough to find investors. Maybe Markus is reading this and will hire me
(me...not holding my breath)
// Substack
Yes, under German law, misrepresenting a customer’s statutory rights can potentially constitute several criminal offenses - including criminal fraud, depending on the exact circumstances.
Furthermore, the statutory consumer protection rights of the German civil code are mandatory and inalienable in nature and under most circumstances can not be waived to the detriment of the consumer. This also means that any waiver of the pertinent consumer protection rights (- including the right of cancellation of a off-premises/distance sales contract) would be null and void.
I’m not 100% sure if the fact that YT is undergoing restructuring proceedings under debtor-in-possession management (Sanierungsverfahren in Eigenverwaltung) has any impact on this, and if so, to what extent exactly - but going off of what I know: It shouldn't matter. Would have to look that up more thoroughly though.
I dug into this as well, and from what I can tell you’re right. It shouldn’t matter whether a court-appointed trustee or YT is in charge, the customer should either receive the product or be refunded in a reasonable timeframe if inventory isn’t available. The idea that money just vanishes into bankruptcy proceedings isn’t the expected outcome.
I didn’t state it outright in my writing, but if you read between the lines, even for a bankruptcy or restructuring, things feel more chaotic than I’d expect. “Ready, fire, aim” comes to mind.
Ibis has always been a boutique brand.
Their frames are made in the same Vietnamese production facility as Yeti; they are very direct competitors. Almost as direct as you can be.
At least Ibis offers alloy frames...
Personally I was a bit surprised that the "AF" series of bikes ended up being priced as competitively as they were, in Canada they've always been up there with Yeti and Santa Cruz pricing for comparable models.
They do, which I think has actually severely impacted their image and position within the high-end market negatively. It has two problems; they have specced them (largely) as lower-end models, which has devalued their higher-end carbon models and brand as a whole, leading to the question we are currently discussing. People who buy a Ripmo AF with Deore do not have the same experience as someone who buys the Carbon high-end spec. I've ridden both versions and can unequivocally tell you the carbon one with better parts is noticeably better on the trail.
They also conversely are not that good of a deal compared to other, less boutique brand alloy offerings. This has made their "entry" level bikes still seem expensive. So they've devalued their the high-end spec while simultaneously offering a not that great of a value cheaper version.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like the Rimpo AF and metal bikes in general, but your average consumer will look at all the offerings on paper and be drawn in multiple directions. At least if they buy a Yeti, they know that it is high-end and comes with a baller spec. There is no questioning it. Walk into a bike shop selling Ibis, and you're met with two options. An alloy version that is 3750$, and a carbon one that is 5200$ with pretty much the same spec. They even look pretty similar. It is hard to convince someone that the Carbon one is that much better.
Full disclosure, I have owned three Ripmo's, a V1 and a V2 carbon and an AF. I've also had two carbon Ripley's, the V1 and the V2. I liked all the them, the V1 carbon Ripmo being the best IMO. All were bought at a staff deal and frame-up builds.
I don't have solid sales data, but I'm willing to bet they sell substantially more carbon bikes than alloy, and within that, they make more money from the higher-end sales, by volume, overall sticker price, and margin. The real question is whether the brocore points they have garnered by offering the AF are worth it in the long run. Ibis, at one time, had the reputation of a core innovation and quality-driven brand. They still do today, but I think to a lesser extent. They are far from a small brand these days, and there are so many super cool, super innovative brands that have taken that slot from them.
Anyway, to circle back to the thread title and topic at hand, I don't think Ibis is at any risk of going out of business. But it will be interesting if they lean into the dentist price spec in the future or continue to branch out into more of a "riders ride" image again.
Things sound differently in your area than they do mine I see the Ibis alloy bikes all the time here but rarely see a carbon bike. I would guess a 10 to 1 ratio at least.
The aluminium vs carbon "premiumness" perception thing is funny considering Vitus went carbon only for the final generation of its trail and enduro bikes, but remained a solidly value oriented brand* before slipping into oblivion (through no fault of its own).
I miss Vitus.
*Even its high end products remained excellent value. The 2021 Sommet CRX launched at $6,300 while a Yeti SB150 T2 with the same groupset, suspension and wheels was $12,300, or $6,300 frame only. You could have bought the Vitus as a build kit for the Yeti...
like carbon only?
they had done carbon builds before the last gen: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Vitus/Sommet-CRX,22039
even had em in 2016. and hardtail carbons before that.
but yeah the final gens i believe were carbon front tri and alloy rear tri, and i was never sure how to feel about them as a value and by comparison to previous generations. but the mythique was still full alloy i think.
Apple sells a $2,000 iPhone and a $600 iPhone and their premium image is just fine. I'm really not seeing the brand erosion you're talking about with Ibis. What I am seeing is tons of riders, new and old on Rimpos and utterly stoked about them. Every single weekend I'll end up riding the lift with someone on a Ripmo. 1B people have iPhones, so access to the product alone doesn't erode the brand.
We cannot ignore the god awful rebrand Ibis did recently, taking their iconic head badge and making it look like a sticker from Costco. The new Ripmo and Ripley alloy are actually very interesting to me because they're the only bikes other than Trek and Specialized that don't treat frame storage as a "premium" feature locked behind carbon.
I owned a Ripmo V1 when it came out, then sold it and swapped all the same parts over to an AF, and I liked the alloy one better because it wasn't so stiff and gave me an extra $1,000 to invest in suspension. My dad still has is original blue Ripmo, and an Exie ('Nam made full factory spec for $4,500) Every time I see them my brain still groups them in with Santa, Yeti, and Pivot.
In fairness, I'm guessing the price-performance-reliability triangle was better on a per-unit basis for Vitus to swap everything to carbon from Flybike than it would be to try to get decent quality alloy equivalents.
RE: Ibis+Trek+Specialized alloy frame storage. I would also hazard a guess that most manufacturers are "locking" it behind carbon because it's a much easier feature to build into a bike on carbon than alloy rather than any specific agenda to use as a premium feature to upsell to carbon.
All I meant was that they chose to use a carbon frame (more correctly front triangle, I should have been clearer) exclusively for what ended up being the final Escarpe and Sommet models, not that they'd never done carbon before. Also incidentally the front triangles for both bikes were almost the same except for bottle mount bosses on the top tube of the Escarpe version, while the Sommet has a lockout cable port (!!!) up there that I'm not sure the Escarpe has.
The Escarpe ended up getting a mid-life refresh to a carbon rear triangle too, which was interesting to see.
The refreshed alloy Mystique looked pretty good but unfortunately the brand didn't last much longer.
yup, literally finally designed a frame that was appropriate for droppers longer than 150mm or whatever... and then disappeared
i really miss the Ragley hardtails. everything they were doing was awesome tbh. I needed a non-boost front wheel a while ago and grabbed a Nukeproof one on sale. such a good value. their droppers as well. I don't even feel anybody has filled that gap in the market... those droppers were dirt cheap and were more reliable than most of the high end ones anyway
People in Europe have started to receive their flash sale bikes, and they are actually getting the exact models they ordered. There is some speculation that these bikes might legally be treated as gifts from the new investor in order to protect the brand name. This could also explain the no-return policy.
I really miss Vitus too. I have 3 Vitus bikes and love every one. I always thought they were great value bikes. I have an E-Mythique LT that came out a couple years ago. Its funny that they were ahead of their time on geo so now everyone is releasing bikes that are similar this year.
This is exactly my pick for drivetrain! By far the best bang for buck. I don't mind the SLX crankset either I just like how sram cranks work better.
I think the fact we're having this conversation at all is proof enough...
But I do largely agree with you. It's not a feeling that I have, but I've been the salesperson on the shop floor and dealt with the consumer impression firsthand. We must remember that we, bike-obsessed forum dwellers, represent a minuscule percentage of the bike market as a whole.
The iPhone example is actually perfect. Despite the fact that Apple makes basic and high-end iPhones, any iPhone is considered high-end. The fact that you can just say iPhone and anyone knows how the product works, what it feels like, how long it will last etc, is the point. I'm sure many other phone brands/models are just as good, maybe better, but I can't name a single one. The same applies to Yeti, Santa Cruz, Pivot, etc. You say Yeti and everyone knows you're talking about a cream of the crop bike, frame and component-wise. With Ibis selling mid-tier bikes, with the same name, appearance, etc, as their higher-end models, we can no longer make that assumption. They are in no man's land between super high-end and a normal bike company. Everyone knows that Trek generally makes a good bike, but we also know that when your neighbour says they just bought a Trek it could be a basic hybrid or a project one top fuel.
I feel like this is the most appropriate thread for this info, unless we need a new forum topic. US Customs is stopping the entry of all parts manufactured by Giant in Taiwan over forced labor claims. This has a huge impact on the industry beyond Giant alone.
Knowing this administration, it appears to be a lever they are pulling against Taiwan and this could expand to other manufacturers.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-issues-withhold…
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2025/09/23/taichung-repor…
really great article. the DJI ebike and bmx re-painting paragraphs were fascinating.
this one stuck out to me
"Huseby said interest in 32-inch wheels is growing, driven in part by brands hoping to bring out models that are differentiated from old inventory. 'They’d like to have something they can sell at full price,' he said."
wonder what kind of volume "something" is. neat that bigger wheels could be set at full price but will they actually sell in a meaningful way? seems naive, but i have no idea how any of all this works.
That's going to be rough for all the other companies that rely on Giant for manufacturing.
Could be the proverbial foot in the door strategy. New wheel size -> new axle/hub size and interface -> new standard for forks & frames -> massive marketing push for adoption of this shit in 29 and 27.5 wheel sizes because fake math and other bro benefits.
the DJI / discount aspect really stuck out to me too, especially given the amount of discussion we've had on that topic here
Not sure if this applies to this thread but CBP has issued a Withold Release Order for Giant. It looks like this means Giant can not import anything into the US, effective immediately. Not sure what the impact is for all the brands that use Giant as an assembler either. Does anyone here have insight into the impact of this?
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-giant-manufacturing-co-ltd
https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/
Agency will detain imports of bicycles, bicycle parts, and accessories manufactured using forced labor
WASHINGTON — U.S. Customs and Border Protection issued a Withhold Release Order against bicycles, bicycle parts, and accessories manufactured in Taiwan by Giant Manufacturing Co. Ltd, based on information that reasonably indicates forced labor use.
Effective immediately, CBP will detain bicycles, bicycle parts, and accessories manufactured in Taiwan by Giant. This WRO, the third issued in 2025 and the fourth in Fiscal Year 2025, was issued due to violations of 19 U.S.C. § 1307, the law prohibiting goods made with forced labor from entering the U.S.
“CBP has a proven track record of cracking down on companies that use forced labor to the detriment of law-abiding U.S. businesses,” said CBP Commissioner Rodney S. Scott.
CBP identified the following International Labour Organization forced labor indicators during its investigation of Giant:
abuse of vulnerability,
abusive working and living conditions,
debt bondage,
withholding of wages, and
excessive overtime.
Giant profited by imposing such abuse, resulting in goods produced below market value and undercutting American businesses by millions of dollars in unjustly earned profits. The International Labour Organization estimates that nearly 28 million workers are under conditions of forced labor worldwide.
“Importers have a responsibility to do their due diligence and know their supply chains,” said Acting Executive Assistant Commissioner of CBP’s Office of Trade Susan S. Thomas. “CBP will continue to investigate allegations of forced labor and take action when we find it in U.S. supply chains.”
Fox mentioned something similar on their earnings call - new releases (ie. Podium, reworked X2 shocks, etc) are driving sales right now.
I suspect that's why we're seeing so many limited edition products coming out from lots of brands. Easy way to release something "new" without doing much.
^that's a good point. fox 38 sales stagnant because of the shiny new trinket du jour podium hype? spray em "limited edition" green!
I wonder if US-owned companies utilizing Giant as a manufacturer will somehow get a pass. Seeing the shoot first, ask questions never approach of the admin, I doubt it, but it will be interesting to see what happens here.
One of the great things about the Vital forum it it attracts discussion from people involved in all sorts of industries across the world, not just the bike industry. Anybody out there have any comments on whether there's been significant enforcement of anti-forced labour import laws in other industries or from other countries?
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