Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
Serious tire nerd question here: why do tires with transition knobs feel less secure when they're fully on edge? The overall sentiment seems to be that tires with a channel in between center and side knobs are most locked in in a corner, but I don't quite get how the transition knobs would affect that sensation.
Yooooooo...I need tire recommendations!
Bottom two paragraphs are additional info about my riding and a local shop recommendation if you're extra curious. I tried to keep my long-windedness in check until those last two paragraphs.
I need new tires on my 120mm/140mm trailbike...but have had very little experience with different tires. I've only ever ridden old Dissectors on the hardtail and a now-worn-out Aggressor/feels-like-overkill DHF on the trailbike.
Recon/Forekaster seems fast but I've never ridden either. I worry this is not enough bite for my current cornering skill level/aggressive riding style.
Forekaster/new Dissector feels like the most obvious step from the current Aggressor/DHF.
Recon/DHRII or Recon/new Dissector both have me curious.
Either way, I'm probably going Exo+ in back and Exo up front with both being MaxxTerra.
I'm also down to try other brands, too, I just don't know anything about the others. Anyone try the new Continentals? Magno/Xyno? Magno/Krypto Re? Maybe better to do something like dual Schwalbe Nobby Nics?
Any thoughts/insight/advice? Thanks for any help you can lend!
Additional Info if you're interested:
The only decent bike shop near me thinks Recon/Recon is the only choice. That said, they skew heavily XC racing, though, and all of the photos of the riders that are associated with that shop are full-lycra, no peaks, flat bars, and power meters sorts of folks. The trails near me are mostly XC that I try to ride aggressively for max fun-per-moment rather than max-average-speed-after-3-hours. For example, while those riders are sitting down pedaling at their perfect cadence, staying aero, and trying to conserve energy I'm standing up to pedal and trying to pump and carry enough speed around a corner to double a trail gap. Those trails are sometimes decades-old hardpack singletrack with scattered moondust corners, sometimes not-even-burned-in grassy guerilla trails, and a dose of whatever the hell you'd call the halfway point of that.
I'd love to drop a little tire weight and still roll fast, too. I really enjoy my opportunities to go on long pedals when I have time available but I'm not interested in buying an air compressor and swapping tires for certain rides. I don't have enough time the way it is so I'm hoping for the best compromise for all of my riding...which is often "oh shit, I have an hour" and then I'm sprinting from my house to the trails and sometimes "how far can I out-and-back on this 100-mile trail before sundown?"
Thanks again if you read down to here to try to give extra-informed advice!
I've ridden all of the tires you mention extensively and most of the combinations. I'd rule out the Rekon/DHR II combo as I think they are a little too far apart to make a good combo. I'd probably go Forekaster/Forekaster or Forekaster/new Dissector - I'm keen to try that setup soon. Rekons can be super fun in dry/predictable conditions, but the Forekaster feels like it only gives up a little rolling speed for a good bit more grip. Good luck!
pretty fascinating long-form video on rubber, its origins, development, global impact etc. (non-bike related aside from mention of rubber bike tires invented in 1888)
ignore the clickbait title...it's a minor part of the actual video
This is a great question!
At the most basic level, grip = friction x force. There's a fixed amount of mechanical friction that can occur between the ground and the durometer of the rubber for any given amount of force, so a single row of side knobs maximizes the force distributed onto those knobs (as opposed to distributing it across the side knobs and the transition knobs, which would be a larger total surface area).
Think of it like stepping on a single nail vs. lying down on a bed of nails. A single nail can puncture even a thick boot sole because all of the force is concentrated to one tiny spot (super high PSI), but you can lay down on a bed of nails with bare skin because the load is distributed across a much larger surface area.
I've been riding the forekaster/rekon combo for almost the whole summer on my Epic Evo. It's a pretty fun combo on hardpack trails but it gets squirrely in the wet. I'm pretty keen on trying the new dissector with an Exo+ forekaster in the back, that would be a nice combo for wetter days like we get in the fall and lots of leaves (without going full assegai/minion style of heavier tires).
Any word on 2.5 Aspens releasing soon? I've been riding the aspen in the rear also and it's really fun in the dry and hardpack. I've tried dual aspens but was slightly scared with a bit of front understeer on certain more loose curves. A Maxx grip 2.5 Aspen could be cool!
Thanks for the in-depth explanation! I was saying yesterday that the Argotal feels like 100% grip is in the cornering knobs, where the Kryptotal Front feels like 80% of the grip is in the cornering knobs so you can have 20% grip for the transition knobs, so I guess I wasn’t too far off.
Small park near me has smooth limestone type shelf’s everywhere and they are near unrideable when wet. The question is, who makes the straight up stickiest tread out there?
That would be Maxxis MaxxGrip, still the stickiest, still the fastest to lose side knob support due to undercutting.
From pit bits
So I came to riding the Albert 2.5 Trail Radial soft in the back on steep alpine trails a bit vs the Supertrail 2.6 Mary Soft that was a bit worn before. I used slightly higher pressure (1,3 bar vs 1,34 bar) to account for lower volume.
Its hard to do a comparison in this setting riding a new tire after replacing a slightly worn one and I can't say anything to the sturdiness as it was mostly steep alpine terrain. So no big high speed rocky hits.
It just feels like the tire knobs twist more on ashalt which gives me the impression the tire rolls worse even at higher pressure. But I could be mislead by the noise here.
But on the steep trails the Albert gave me even more security compared to the magic mary which is no slouch there. So kinda crazy that you get more grip with a less aggressive tire thread. I can't really say how significant this is. For a fair comparison I would have to ride both tires new back to back on the same terrain and day.
Did it feel any less stable side to side in terms of tire roll, or less stable up and down in terms of the risk of pinch flats or rim dents?
I’m also curious about how the radials protect the rim…
I’ve run a DH casing maxxgrip Assegai vs an EXO+ maxxgrip Assegai and it seemed like the EXO+ had better grip and absorbed more trail chatter. But I know I’d kill the lighter casing at a bike park.
Radials will protect the rim just fine when you up the pressures. Gravity radials are the first tire in a long time that I've managed to rim ding on the front. Now that I've ridden them for three months, my race pressures has gone up 3psi front and 4psi rear compared to specialized gravity casing in dry conditions, little bit less in regular trail riding. Nice thing about these is that even adding that pressure doesn't really change how much they grip, its still crazy good.
Mary US front is still looking almost new on the front.
Albert soft in the rear has seen better days, its leaking sealant from 5 different scratches in the sidewall and from the bead, still holding air though so sealant is doing its job. Thread wear is your basic schwalbe, knob edges are crumbling but its good enough for rest of the season.
Overall, really happy about radials and gonna keep riding a radial in the front, the added grip and feeling is just great. For the rear not sure, Albert rolls good enough, has enough of braking traction but not really sure is the radial needed in the rear, lets see what thread patterns come next.
I can't really say much about that as I only rode it on similar terrain type trails for a few days so far. No hard rock impacts to judge this. And I don't think I'm cornering hard enough to notice tire roll in the back. It's just in the front that I sometimes think he mary folds on high load stuff but I'm running really low pressure, it doesn't happen often and it could just be a drift because of low grip. It's not a full grip loss, just the beginning of it and then it hooks up again predictably.
I'm riding rather defensive when I'm high up alone in the alps and I've never ridden the trail but the tires also kinda keep me from getting into sketchy situations because I rarely loose grip now.
Consider the new Conti Magnotal in the rear. That’s what I am running and have been quite impressed. I’ll probably throw one on the front too when the 2.6 is available.
Magno/Magno
or
Magno/Xyno
or
Magno/KryptoRe
What are you running up front right now?
Couldn’t you say the same about an EXO+?
Ie just up the pressure because the casing is more pliable?
I guess I’m just curious- the main selling feature of the radials is a more compliant casing- which is already available via lighter versions of casings. Also I’m too cheap to buy a $115 tire for testing
Well not quite. Exo+ is still a thin casing no matter how much pressure. 30psi in a radial gravity casing is compliant, has great grip, support and puncture resistance. Exo+ is hard, bouncy with much worse puncture resistance.
My comment about upping the pressure was just about me being stubborn and riding a radial with same pressures as with regular tires. 24/29psi has been perfect without any rim hits now.
After a certain point, higher pressures lead to more flats in rugged terrain.
yeah nah, it doesn't really work like that, the reason why Radial still works better at higher pressures is because it still deforms and provides grip, an Exo+ is similar to something in between Super Ground and Super Trail.
I’m pondering what the fastest (not necessarily lightest) tires I could get away with at a 200 lb rider weight on the Sentinel (160/160). For the most part, even our most aggressive trails are ones where rolling speed and trail speed are somewhat interchangeable, so the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re combo is feeling a bit overkill. The trick is, I’d really like something on the rear that has great cornering support from knobs and casing and isn’t super fragile. For reference, I really liked the prior generation Eliminator T7 Grid Trail as a rear tire on my 150/160 Stumpjumper Evo, or the 1300g Trail Boss Tough/Fast Rolling as a rear on my 163/170 Canfield Lithium. The new Eliminator and Xynotal are cool tires, but are noticeably slower to me than either of those. Thoughts?
Michelin Wild Enduro Rear Gum-x (not the racing line one) seems like a good choice for what you are looking for. Feels very similar to the old eliminator.
I ran a Michelin Force AM2 as a rear on my Sentinel for a season and was pretty stoked on it. It rolls fast, corners predictably, and has a nice stout casing. Last I checked, they were pretty cheap too.
I’ve run Kyptotal fr & re- loved em but rolling was a little slow 29 & MX
Tried Kryp fr Argo on the rear- slipped out a bit on me 29
Have run Schwalbe Radial MM fr & Rear both SS and Ivey were slow rolling but man the grip in New England Spring 29 & MX
Swapped out the rear for a Soft Trail Albert aging and sped up. MX
Have been running trail casing Mazzas front and rear and have no complaints whatsoever. Weight penalty is made up by rolling speed and braking. Lean angle feels pretty righteous and grips well. 29
On a Druid V2 wheel size stated after tire combo. Experimentation over a few years on varying New England terrain.
Tioga Edge 22 + Butcher T7 Grid Trail
I’m still on a DHF 2.5 Maxxgrip exo in the front as I only needed a rear at the time. Probably gonna do the 2.6 magno when it’s available and I wear out the dhf (which won’t take long). Other options aren’t really “downcountry” in weight or rolling resistance. 2.35 magno is probably a great front as well if you don’t need the extra volume. Forekaster/rekon was where I was leaning before I tried the Magnotal.
Exciting to see new radials, but hoping we see the Big Betty and the Hans Dampf (tires for us mortals) in radial before the Dirty Dan and the Tacky Chan (tires for racers). Racers do probably buy more tires though. Finally put mine to the test these past 2 weeks with a ton of bike park laps on a Gravity Pro Mary and and an enduro on the Trail Pro Mary and can't see myself running a non-radial front tire ever again.
Anybody try a Terevail Warwick as a rear tire? I'm curious about the Durable/Grip as a potential Trail Boss replacement, but maybe it's slow than it looks.
I am tempted to try the Edge 22 in the rear.
Post a reply to: Tire chat (nerds only)