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In all fairness the geo on Banshee bikes is still ahead of most other brands - particularly for larger sizes. Looking at the geo for most of their bikes I'm not sure what I would want different being a size large rider. Would be nice to see them update to UDH to be able to sell more bikes.
Alway's loved banshee bikes. If they could decrease there seat tube height and increase insertion lengths I bet they would sell a good percentage more. Americas version of Raww
I don’t know which bikes you’re looking at because on the ones I’m looking at their geo is definitely outdated, especially for larger riders.
I’m 6’3” and consider all of their bikes too small.
The largest Titan and Rune they sell only have a 495 reach. The biggest Legend is 480 reach.
It’s still a 160mm bike so the rear wheel will have to get further from the BB to avoid colliding with the frame. There’s no magic going on inside switch infinity, all mid travel bikes will have ~3-6mm of chainstay growth in the first half of travel. Horst link bikes tend to spread this out over a larger chunk of travel but short link bikes will swing back up until sag before dramatically arcing forward. Even the characteristic of having stable antisquat before it falls off dramatically close to bottom out are consistent with VPP and DW-link.
I guess I meant size L or XL bike riders when I was referring to that.
The legend definitely needs a larger size - I would ride the XL 29" at 6ft tall. Looking at the Titan (and all of their 29" bikes) you gotta pay attention to the stack when looking at the reach numbers because it is larger than other bikes. On the Titan, the stack is 661mm which is significantly larger than most other bikes - this would equate to a >> 500mm reach on other manufacturers bikes. Also, you can put the +10mm chainstay dropout on which would give you a 462mm CS - this puts you in a more upright position for proper front/rear weight bias.
they just need some riser bars, they have quite a balanced geo in large with the longer dropouts, look at forbiddens new druid core, they have a very similar geo
One of the reasons I bought a Raaw. Seat tube length and dropper insertion is not great on the Banshee and was worried compared to my Firebird I had previously. After getting used to a 240mm dropper post, there is no coming back. Riding Mount7, BC and all these steep trails around, you really appreciated having the saddle out of the way.
Sure, they have tall stacks, but you can add stack with handlebars and stem spacers without any significant downsides other than a slight shortening of the reach. I have 35mm rise bars and 20mm of spacers on my 505 reach XL Sentinel.
You can’t really add reach. You can change stem length but that has other effects on bike handling.
Looking at the Sentinel, adding 20mm of stack via stem spacers shortens the reach by 10mm - effectively putting the handlebar position in the same spot it would be on the Titan...
Also, being able to get about a 15mm longer chainstay on the Titan makes a big difference to f/r balance meaning you don't need to ride over the front as much. This makes the bike fit 'bigger' - at least looking at it from standing over the bike. Seated position would be another ballgame.
Really hope it’s backwards compatible for the v3.2. The dropout system seems like it would be really easy to design a UDH one for aftermarket.
Elegantly phrased argument for the Nü Progressive Geo Gang
Adding stack does effectively add reach, because you would use less spacers to get the same bar height.
Said another way - If you have two bikes with the same reach and head tube angle but one has a higher stack, that one will have a longer front-center.
All suspension designs will become Crab and all tech rumor conversations will become Long Chainstay
Next Megatower will be virtual crab
The second law of thermodynamics in the Vital Forums: all tech rumors eventually devolve to a discussion about chainstay length.
*rear centre length.
They are not the same.
*Crab rumors
Username checks out
For a Saxon language, you English guys are extremely Latin for some words.
I must have skipped this day of bike nerdery 201. Please explain...
I assume "chainstay length" is supposed to be the distance between the BB axis and the rear axle axis, while "rear centre length" is the minimal distance between those two points projected vertically?
Gee I hope there are some tech rumours to talk about soon.
Have you noticed over the past few years that there has been one frame dimension that people obsess over? One year was head angle, then reach, then seat tube angle, stack now it's chain stays.. Now seeing more people who are realizing that all those numbers have to work together...
Chainstay length is BB to rear axle distance, direct. Rear centre is the horizontal distance between the BB and rear axle. The projection of BB on the ground to the tyre contact patch if you will (and same for front centre). This is affected by the dynamic sag both front and rear as it is affected by the inclination of the bike frame.
Chainstay length (the changes of it) affects pedaling performance (antisquat and kickback), rear centre length affects front rear balance. Though technically for that the axle to centre of gravity distance would make more sense than the distance to the BB as the two are not in the same vertical...
Last page or two is boooring 😏
Wasn't there a dedicated topic for chainstay lengths etc?
Here you go: https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/modern-geo-talk-chainstays-stack-re…
The English language is essentially a jumble of stolen shit.... So why not!
chainstay length itself is also the distance between rear axle and pivot point - this is why the actual length matters so much, that pivot could be infront of the BB or behind it. which has quite a role in anti squat, leverage of the stay etc - it also directly relates to where the BB ends up.
Sorry, ill stop now
Every time you mention this random ass definition of what a chainstay length is, i can't help but think about how it doesn't make any sense unless you're talking only about single pivot bikes, and how everyone you talk to is going to misunderstand you anyway. The fun thing about language is that words mean what people understand them to mean, not what you want them to mean. I'll post the rest of my response to this in the chainstay thread.
It's OK you dont understand how a longer lever creates more leverage, You may have forgotten from the early school days.
If you've never put the Pivot location quite far infront of the BB in linkage, i suggest you do, then try it low and behind the BB. the differences are quite difference
Saying you dont understand that is also saying you dont understand that high pivots places the pivot HIGHER....
Im trying to condense a long Sentence to short for the sake of the ADHD People here
This is basic Stuff dude... maybe i need to dumb it down for you?
1) I think you're at the exact peak of the Dunning Kruger graph here.
2) That was a hint to get this discussion out of this thread.
English isn't a real language, it's 3 languages in a trench coat pretending to be a language.