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yes, get the Base, can often be found quite cheap online
Totally agree re Dr. Norton's assessment of organic pads on the Mavens when they heat up - the ramp down from power is pretty quick. I went ahead and left them up front but moved to metal in the back. The combo works for me in how I ride and brake.
One other thing I've noticed with the stock Maven pads is the sintered ones will squeak for a second or two after cooling down (in dry, dusty conditions) but shut up after that. This happens to me consistently after I first drop into a descent - the first 1 or 2 times I brake (especially lightly modulating on a traverse) they are noisy but quiet the rest of the descent. I don't have this happen with the organic pads.
@Jason_Schroeder What stood out to me was Dak saying that you have to work for the power on a Shimano brake when we have the reputation for having an on/off feel. One thing that's different about just about every pro bike is that they cheat out the pistons to get a super quick bite point. I don't remember specifically if the Mondraker mechanics said they were doing this but when I've polled teams in the past it was near 100%. Because the servo-wave is meant to quickly move through a lot of free stroke (relative to our super wide pad clearance) and then ramp up the power once the pads hit the rotor, when you cheat the pistons out the bite point will happen when the servo-wave is still in it's low power phase.
I thought it interesting that Dak mentioned that the Saints (w/XTR levers) are pretty much under gunned these days. I’m definitely not in his category of speed, but I do push for my age/skill/weight and Saint brakes (caliper and levers) are adequate for even 60+% grade sections with excellent modulation and power. With proper maintenance, they should last 10+ years and I have never really experienced the wandering bite point (keep them bled properly folks!).
I’ve been curious about the TRP, Mavens, even the Hayes, but to keep the muscle memory consistent, I’d need to put a new brake system on 4 bikes, which is expensive…
Consider yourself lucky, it's scarier than the fundamentalist Spaniards when it finally happens.
I just got the Maven Base to test for Vital, but nothing to report yet.
I have had several sets of Shimano brakes but only experienced on XT brakes. XTR and Saints have always been fine. Bled them the same way, do leaver bleeds frequently to make sure they feel good, never had that issue those specific models.
I am curious how/where Saints fall in a lineup of just power rating on all modern brakes. I always thought they were pretty good but I’m also not trying lots of new stuff.
They are powerful but not as powerful as the shigura. I'm wondering about the new shimano brakes. In the german forum they already made shiguras out of them. Any experiences with them here so far?
For better or for worse, I find myself 'double tapping' when riding shimanos and it gives me the consistent bite that I want.
I have this exact same behavior under these exact same conditions with my Intend White Magic Pads.
Low hydraulic leverage combined with short levers = lower power. Attached is a chart that I put together calculating hydraulic leverage based on MC piston and caliper piston diameters. There are some obvious components missing from this, notably mechanical leverage that is a result of the cam geometry and lever length. But it overall follows what I have felt with the brakes that I have tried.
Personally, its been a long time since I've felt that Saints were top in the class, with the issues of Shimano's needing lever bleeds pretty regularly and the weird feel of the servo wave compared to other cam designs out now, its just not what it once was. When that design came out it was above the rest, but that was 2012, Avid just released the Elixers to replace the Juicys, both of which were utter garbage hence Saint being best in class (that was a pretty low bar.) At the end of the day, you can achieve good'enough power from any of the brakes out there, but the amount of force required at the lever is a whole 'nother story. TRP's, Saints, XT's, and my old MT7's take significantly more force at the lever than my A4's, Radic's or T4V4's to stop my 215lbs on a 40lb enduro bike when my confidence extends beyond my skill.
I found shimano brakes to offer quick bite which gives them their on/off feel, but they don't offer much more power after that even when you pull harder. Shimano brakes also seem to produce less power the closer you run them to the bars.
I switched from XT 4 piston brakes to Code RSCs.
The Codes have less aggressive bite, but produce more ultimate stopping power if you keep pulling.
Update on Guide RSC/Code combo:
After biking over to single track nearby and using those hills to attempt to bed in the pads, no luck. Tried for a while. I may have to buy new rotors
It is a shame because the lever feel is amazing, and I can tell there is a lot of power there, just no friction between the pads and rotor; not the fault of the combo, just bedding in metallic pads wasn’t working with the rotor.
I swapped back to the Guide caliper, but using the same method of bleeding, it’s impossible to get the Guides to feel as firm as they were with Code calipers. But, I scuffed the rotor and put some lightly torched organic pads in and boom, bedded-in in 3 minutes.
If I pursue this combo over buying new brakes, should they be called Grodes or Cruides?
I put this in my longer post a few months ago but Saints are good brakes, but what is really mind blowing about them is how good they are for being unchanged the past, what, 10 years? longer?
I do agree they aren't as powerful as newer, modern options, though. I think the past few years has had some really good options that push brakes into a more powerful, less force required category: Intend, Radic, Hope, Maven, Maxima, and Hope being the main examples I found. The Saints, while usable, just didn't have the power of these options and required more clenching to get power down consistently, but the fact they are even in the running still is crazy. What was the closest competitor when they were released? Guides? I don't even remember
I think brakes lagged behind the transition to 29in wheels and esp as bikes got heavier, the options we had before just don't work as well, but it's remarkable Saints still do as well as they do despite this. The others are catching up now and hopefully the new iterations come up to par with the other options on the market. I'm not a huge Shimano fanboy but their build kits are a better priced value than most of what SRAM is putting out atm.
Has anyone experimented with different DOT fluids?
Low viscosity ones vs higher boiling point ones? ( that are usually higher viscosity)
This picture from Supersonic Parts got me thinking
I haven’t tried it personally, but I know a few people who swear by race fluids. The boiling point increase can be pretty dramatic.
https://emotive.engineering/blogs/the-logbook/the-ultimate-track-day-and-racing-brake-fluid-guide#brake-fluid-comparison-chart
Completely normal for Sram sintered pads. If we stop mid descent my Codes also squeak for the first 100 meters and are then OK.
Was finally able to hit the trails with my new set of trinity brakes
Using formula monolithic 220mm 2.3mm thickness rotors, front back, I also get the same high pitch squeal on light lever feathering and the loud howling upon harder breaking, especially on the front. This time I think I was about 96-100kg total kitted.
That sticky piston issue I had on the front seems better. Not exactly sure now if it is completely resolved or still there or in my head
My skill level is dogshit, that means I am happy I don't die after going down an easy to medium trail through roots. That also means I am all the time using the brakes, instead of knowing exactly when to and when not to. Have to say this is the best modulation I have ever felt and easiest on the fingers. I wanted to get them really hot for that sticky piston so I managed to hold them used throughout almost the whole of the descent. Didn't get them to fade (not using fridges). Maybe I was pulling a bit closer to the bar on the rear at the end, or it was just me not wanting to die going down.
The power is great, I lose traction if I go for more lever pull on the trail. I still would've wanted that 2 finger hard pull power I have on perfect traction on asphalt, more so that it adds even more modulation on trail, but they hold well for my weight and skill level
Had 1 fall, scratched the front brake lever, my soul hurts now
Are the Maven Bronze's the way to go if you're buying new? Lighter lever feel than the Silver and Ultimate?
The newer ones are lighter than original, however bases will be enough for 95% of riders(they have a direct link and is easier pull)
I'd give the current Mavens a go first, and see if you even notice the lever pull issue before going down to the base. I'm 200+ lbs and enjoy how they feel. Even my wife at 140 lbs prefers the lever feel compared to pretty much everything else on the market.
Personal opinion, I’d never buy anything sram if not ultimate/silver level.
Base might have a nicer pull but they’re on bushings, that will get sloppy and noisy quick, just like everything else they make.
And this is a fact, not an opinion.
Same with having the contact adjust on the higher end maven, if not base I’d 100% recommend those, you can make them softer and they work great.
I have done that dumb pull the lever until contact and check the weight, it was the same as any XT/XTR brake out of the box, so they’re heavy pull when compared to the super light ones ( Hope, Hayes, Trickstuff, Radic, Lewis and so on )
But the fact that they grab so much means you don’t get as fatigued, I hate heavy levers but I get less arm pump from the mavens than from a set of XT with lots less power.
And I’m a brake dragger too
Since I replaced the pistons in the levers today I have things a clean and of course a change of Dot cause why not, it’s been 7 months on these brakes so far.
I paid attention to the paint “issue” you’ve had, and while the green do not have that issue, the purple ones do the same, I assume then it’s a Galfer thing.
I didn’t bother scraping it out or anything honestly
Hey all, can anyone help with a huge dilemma I’m having? I currently run code rsc with 223mm galfer wave and galfer purple pads. These work great and tend to not over heat too badly for me, I also really like the lever feel.
However I’m a big guy at 6’4” and 250lbs so have been looking at either some maven ultimates or hope T4V4 for more power, hopefully keeping a similar lever feel in terms of modulation. I’m UK based, but do a fair amount of uplifted riding in the UK and Europe.
At this point I’m going round in circles trying to decide which way to go, hope or sram. Can anyone help me out who has tried both brakes?
thanks
Well if it is for modulation, considering you also live in the UK with Hope right next to you, I'd go for the Hopes.
You also have the new Hope Evos to choose from
I have a set of new, unused Hope tech 4v4 in my room that I would be using right now if it wasn't for the luck of grabbing a pair of intend trinity. Dale Stone has a good video on the tech 4v4
If modulation is a thing Hope 100%
If you want a more brutal brake then Mavens
They’re both good, look and quality wise Hopes are hard to beat, and yeah being in the Uk 100% Hope
First day on the XT 8120’s at the bike park in the heat 93F/33C and my first oh shit moment with the rear brake momentarily going to the bar. Only happened the one time and the brakes weren’t even hot yet. That’ll wake you up!
Any fix for this? Bleed feels great, it came right back with two quick pumps… but it’s 2025 and that seems crazy to me.
this is the way to fix those: Mavens/TRP/hope.
If I was riding that bike more I would.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment