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Given the plethora of takes in this thread, I am wondering what people think is the best value prop for a drivetrain? I like XT because it is crisp, wear items and breakable items are cheaper than sram counterparts, and the clutch is rebuildable. The only downside I have heard is the durability but I haven't broken one in a fashion that wouldn't have broken any other mech. I also feel like sram gx when I had it would start to feel like shit no matter what after 6 months of heavy use. Shimano hasn't for me.
Also, I have yet to be convinced that the $100 rebuild kit for the direct mount is good value.
I think it all depend on what budget you consider to be best value. For some that might be sub 200$, around 350$ or more like 700$
Lets say we only talk about shifter derailleur cassette and chain
For Sub 200$ Shimano Cues U6000 10 speed and Microshift Advent X are pretty much on that 200$ mark. Both derailleur have clutch so brand power of Shimano might take the win at this price bracket.
For around 350$ you can get either a complete linkglide XT-M8130 groupset or a mixmatched shimano hyperglide+ 12speed groupset with XT shifter and derailleur, SLX cassette and XTR chain.
Sram groupset with bias towards durability and longevity benefits a lot with XO cassette and chain but cost go up a lot too. You are looking at around 600$ for older Eagle groupset or 750$ for newer Transmission 90 shifter and derailleur with XO cassette and flat top chain.
(price mentionned in USD and taken from current sales price on Jenson USA)
Best value proposition is either brands 11sp drive trains.
They worked incredibly well, they are different, one clunked and one was smoother, but they are very reliable, less prone to indexing faults than either 12sp, and so much cheaper.
If you want value 12sp the only option is Shimano mix/match.
Unfortunately an equivalent Sram drivetrain is almost double the price of a shimano one currently, so from a value perspective it simply cant be competitive
I would argue that the ubiquity of 12s parts vs 11 speed at shops if you're traveling is valuable.
What drivetrain parts do you really need to buy in an emergency when traveling? RD - just have an inexpensive spare one in your bag if you're worried. Cassette - you'll hardly every need to replace one in a middle of a trip. 12sp chains work with 11sp drivetrain just fine, like chain rings. Shifter - has one even failed on you ever?
I catch a lot of crap because I’m one of the few in my group still on cables. I run XT/XTR combos on both my bikes. I won’t claim my setups are as consistent as an electronic drivetrain but I’m very good at tuning and maintaining my bikes. My bikes shift smoother and quieter than the AXS setups my friends run. I’ve owned many SRAM setups as well. I do think their parts are a bit more durable but I find the Shimano stuff a good value, they’re light and are pretty durable considering.
All that being said, I would hope that Shimano does spend some time improving their cabled drivetrains. There’s always room for improvement.
This 100%. I forget what retailer it was but they were running a buy one get the second chain for 50% off. Grabbed two XTR chains immediately and put them on the shelf.
I'm probably the exception, but I think I've flat out broken more shifters than derailleurs. Sure, derailleur cages get bent and pulley teeth break off, but you can make it work for the rest of the trip and do some better McGyvering back home. But smash a shifter in a crash and you're SOL.
It's just so appealing to stay X01 (other than cranks and one GX derailleur with X01 b-bolt) on all my bikes because I can move stuff around easily and keeping a stockpile of spare parts is much simpler. I run X01 (with normal shifter) on SL ebike and it's just fine.
I run 10-50 on two of my bikes. Better spacing and easier to pick up cassettes on sale.
I've gotten stuck with UDH on two of my bikes, but opted for the adjustable rear center on my RAAW. Funnily enough, one of my other two bikes is a Trek, so they take different UDHs. Gotta love the irony of that.
For mechanical shifting, I don't see what all the fuss is about with UDH. Have a NSB hanger on the RAAW and it shifts great. Would gladly trade UDH on the other two bikes for 5mm of rear center adjustment. It's also a bigger pain to swap out derailleur hanger trailside or at the trailhead with UDH than a traditional derailleur. I always keep a spare and straightened hanger in the car or, for real backcountry rides, in the pack.
I have the 10 speed MicroShift on my fat tire bike. I’ve tightened the clutch adjustment as much as I could, but still get way more chain slap than my Shimano group sets. As others have mentioned, it shifts well, but isn’t going to match offerings from Shimano or Stam for speed or smoothness.
I’ve been disappointed with transmission AXS. Two GX derailleur warranties with the usual ‘we’ve never seen that but here’s a good faith replacement’ spiel, when I know from others the same issues are occurring.
SRAM had a firmware update early on to give more range to adjust the centreline over the ref sprocket, but even then many of their derailleurs seem to be enough out of spec that it’s not enough - I’ve checked on hubs and dropouts that are bang on specifications.
As you say, the shifting is slow, and the ability for the user or mechanic to make it work is very limited. Giving the user an ability to specify mode depending on ebike/bike or other factors makes sense.
For my money, if you want fast shifting the. It’s hard to go past xt with xtr shifter. Ironically that’s the set up I have on an ebike and even abusing it, it performs better than transmission.
You're not the first to mention GX Transmission derailleur issues. What was the cause for your warranty? I have heard the horizontal battery placement could be causing bent contact pins.
There is a great blog post summarizing all the things that can go wrong with Transmission: https://georgeferko.com/personal-blog/2024/4/7/troubleshooting-shifting-issues-with-your-sram-transmission-drivetrain
Turns out the standardizing your shifting plane is difficult and you will have edge cases where things just don't mesh together due to manufacture tolerances.
If MIcroShift would ditch the pawl clutch they would have the definitive enduro/ebike/park bike drivetrain. On big drops I've experienced some ancient concept described to me as "chain suck". The chain would come completely off the top of the chainring (through a chain guide) and get sucked down under the chainring. The Stumpy Evo has horrible chainline/retention issues so it's some of that, but I've had no drama with Shimano derailleurs and their friction clutches. The derailleur itself is much less brittle and prone to breaking than the Shimano Deore 11sp (which I'm now on) and the MicroSpline cassette with the alloy spider is 200g lighter than the Deore 11sp one. Weight/durability where you want it on the derailleur and weight savings on the mass you're pushing with your legs.
That's interesting. What kind of retention issues did you have with the Stumpy Evo? I'm running an MRP chain guide and have never had the chain come off. Even with a floppy, worn GX derailleur, I never had issues with the chain dropping — just noise. Now I'm on the 55mm chainline and not sure how I feel about it yet, but can't report any issues
Should mention this is a Stumpy Evo alloy, One Up chain guide. The whole chainline/bb area of chainstay is just a mess on this bike. 32T chainring is way too close to the chainstay on 52mm chainline and every other alloy Stumpy Evo I've seen has the bb area of the chainstay destroyed from the chain slapping it. The main pivot looks "high" compared to other bikes and at least on my setup (Cascade Link and WRP Yoke) I feel a lot of pedal kick at full travel, which could contribute to chain retention issues. Not an expert on chainlines as my other 2 bikes (SC and Transition) "just work" with the same exact crank/BB setup, but I think it's reasonable to expect my chain not to drop due to a derailleur's clutch design. I did have the MicroShift drivetrain on my Nukeproof Giga and the BB area of the chainstay got destroyed on that bike too.
At least compared to my other bikes I'd say the stumpy evo has medium chain growth. I tried the cascade link too but wasn't overly impressed and went back to the stock link with a higher spring rate. I taped the area around the chain stay and it does the job just fine.
A 55mm chainline like on Transmission should be beneficial for your setup?!
I'm fine with slower shifts. I know modern drivetrains will handle more, but I'm still in the old-school mindset of interrupting my cadence a little bit and shifting one gear at a time, so as to put the least amount of stress on the whole system. I'm on an NX deraileur now. Going GX Eagle on my new bike.
Which chain are you running?
Exactly the same reason I ditched my AdventX derailleur. I did run a GX Eagle derailleur with my AdventX setup that worked flawlessly though. This was a few years ago and nowadays I mix and match between Shimano and SRAM.
Interrupting the cadence/not pushing hard on the pedals for a second works flawlessly even when shifting 2 and more gears at a time!
I'm still happy with AXS XO1 shifter and derailleur and XT cassette and chain.
AXS Eagle question: does the XO1 derailleur ride any different than the GX? from my research the steel cage is the only difference between these? For $100 price difference and a little extra weight, i'm not sold on picking up another X01 to replace my current X01 that slaps around like crazy.
The battery pin issues mainly affect the GX version due to its battery placement. Water that reaches the pins tends to stay there, causing corrosion. Personally, I'd go for the X0 because of that.
Isn't that just with the new transmission? I'm talking Eagle AXS aka previous generation - also why is the naming so confusing?
A few years ago I had Eagle AXS XX1, X01 and GX on 3 different bikes and there was no performance difference between the 3. The shifting and clutch were identical. The only difference was weight which was due to the cage materials. 373g, 391g and 456g.
Ive had the XX1 AXS since launch of 2019 and it is still working great. Clutch is weaker but they weren't as strong as Shimano to begin with.
Yes. I misread that
I'm a very bang for the buck guy when it comes to drivetrains (my bikes mainly use Shimano 11/12S, mix of Deore, SLX and XT) , most of the stuff I've used felt fine but my main gripe with modern drivetrains is cassette standards:
HG works if the freehub is steel (which not all hub manufacturers offer), but the two big players not making 12S HG cassette limits your options for good deals. Garbaruk makes a 1 piece 11V cassette that could help with aluminium freehubs, but I'm not comfortable with using that 300€ cassette when I spend 8 months of the year riding in mud 😀
Microspline has the short thread engagement issue and a complicated assembly.
XD seems better overall but if the cassette gets stuck, get ready to buy a new freehub body...
It really feels like they could have done better
Microspline is clunky to install but, other than that, I haven’t had any issues with it on my bikes.
Sram NX and SX 12 speed both run on HG freehubs.
I've been running an XT shifter, derailleur & cassette for the better part of a year w/ a steel SRAM chainring & X0 chain. Seems fine. Doesn't shift as fast maybe as a full shimano setup but you get the ultra long lasting XO chain with the nice & easy (also cheap compared to GX) Shimano bits.
Are you doing this because those are the parts you had? Generally, SLX/XT chainrings are steel. Use an XTR chain and you’d have the same durability with better shifting. SRAM chains are a teeny bit wider.
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