MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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4/8/2025 8:49am

I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access. 

This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much. 

We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level. 

5
8
Nobble
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Lakewood, CO US
4/8/2025 8:59am
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...

I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access. 

This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much. 

We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level. 

Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?


It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.

7
Jotegr
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Interior, BC CA
4/8/2025 9:17am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2025 9:18am
For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk...

For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk about how innovative they are, but if this is their big release nothing about it really stands out at all. 

The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use in many markets off the shop floor. 

At least in British Columbia*, the very fact users can (maybe, if the feature is allowed in Canada; and lets be real dealers can probably unlock it in software) adjust the top speed means that the new Levo is a Motor Vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act and ceases to meet the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle - so it isn't legal to use on most public trails and highways (almost every road). 

*for those curious, BC only has two classes of ebike, ebike and light ebike: https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-64-2024/latest/bc-reg-64-2024.html?resultId=354f694d35524481b20ab10442bea583&searchId=2025-04-08T09:14:09:068/fcf1b6c63bd94d89b2505a1f4050fb63

 

How's the adjustable chainstay lengths work with UDH/transmission? Genuinely curious from a function standpoint. 

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29
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AT
4/8/2025 9:17am

New Commencal Meta HT. Kinda boring in comparison to all the Levo attention, but looks like new brake rotors from sram?

3
Masjo
Posts
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Location
Ancaster CA
4/8/2025 9:21am
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...

I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access. 

This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much. 

We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level. 

Nobble wrote:
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open...

Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?


It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.

They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean? | WIRED

It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban. 

1
Eae903
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387
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Laramie, WY US
Fantasy
4/8/2025 9:23am
Jotegr wrote:
The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use...

The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use in many markets off the shop floor. 

At least in British Columbia*, the very fact users can (maybe, if the feature is allowed in Canada; and lets be real dealers can probably unlock it in software) adjust the top speed means that the new Levo is a Motor Vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act and ceases to meet the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle - so it isn't legal to use on most public trails and highways (almost every road). 

*for those curious, BC only has two classes of ebike, ebike and light ebike: https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-64-2024/latest/bc-reg-64-2024.html?resultId=354f694d35524481b20ab10442bea583&searchId=2025-04-08T09:14:09:068/fcf1b6c63bd94d89b2505a1f4050fb63

 

How's the adjustable chainstay lengths work with UDH/transmission? Genuinely curious from a function standpoint. 

The chainstay length adjust is at the chainstay pivot, and not the dropout 

2
seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA US
4/8/2025 9:24am
AndehM wrote:
I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use...

I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use the class 3 thing to plod down the blue Flow trail at Soquel Demo near Specialized HQ (where ebikes are technically not allowed) would look awfully close to a single circle.

(Disclosure: I've ridden my ebike there too, but only go there like once a year because its so vanilla.)

god this is such a "forum post" of a post

6
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Eae903
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4/8/2025 9:25am
Nobble wrote:
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open...

Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?


It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.

Pretty sure those are class 2, class 2 ebikes have the throttles, 3 are pedal assist up to 28 mph

1
jsray
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Gilbert, AZ US
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4/8/2025 9:27am

Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

morty.jpg?VersionId=aognecqZRUaaI62Y3uGjh8HdQzzVW

33
4/8/2025 9:30am
jsray wrote:
Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

morty.jpg?VersionId=aognecqZRUaaI62Y3uGjh8HdQzzVW

Carcinisation comes for all. It's like how all mass-transit eventually ends up as trains.

7
dolface
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Location
CA US
4/8/2025 9:33am
jsray wrote:
Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

morty.jpg?VersionId=aognecqZRUaaI62Y3uGjh8HdQzzVW

Carcinisation comes for all. It's like how all mass-transit eventually ends up as trains.

I think we have to call it "Vital's Law" now...

11
seanfisseli
Posts
571
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Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
4/8/2025 9:34am
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...

I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access. 

This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much. 

We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level. 

Nobble wrote:
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open...

Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?


It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.

Masjo wrote:
They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean...

They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean? | WIRED

It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban. 

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.

4
9
Eae903
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Fantasy
4/8/2025 9:40am
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least...

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.

What specialized e mtb Was a class 3?

1
4/8/2025 9:43am
Nobble wrote:
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open...

Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?


It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.

Masjo wrote:
They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean...

They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean? | WIRED

It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban. 

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least...

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.

Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.

https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/

2
3
4/8/2025 9:49am

Are ebike classes relevant anywhere outside the us? I’ve never heard them discussed here in Canada 

4
dolface
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4/8/2025 9:50am
chriskief wrote:

Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.

https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/

Looooool! I saw one of those IRL and the dude paid to shuttle it to the top of Mt. Hough (CA) to ride it down a green flow trail... 🤑

The shuttle driver was rolling his eyes so hard they almost fell out of his head...

6
ballz
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Ouagadougou EH
4/8/2025 9:50am
Masjo wrote:
They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean...

They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean? | WIRED

It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban. 

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least...

with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.

chriskief wrote:

Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.

https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/

You'd have to be extra dumb for mistaking these for pedal assist bikes.

5
1
4/8/2025 9:51am
34
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
4/8/2025 10:00am
jsray wrote:
Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums: 

morty.jpg?VersionId=aognecqZRUaaI62Y3uGjh8HdQzzVW

Carcinisation comes for all. It's like how all mass-transit eventually ends up as trains.

dolface wrote:

I think we have to call it "Vital's Law" now...

i think you mean "Vital's Claw"

15
4/8/2025 10:06am

Carcinisation comes for all. It's like how all mass-transit eventually ends up as trains.

dolface wrote:

I think we have to call it "Vital's Law" now...

jonkranked wrote:

i think you mean "Vital's Claw"

These are the comments that keep me coming back 🦀

14
4/8/2025 10:20am

This is great since there's a shocking number of people in my riding circles being seduced by the SJ15 for some odd reason and I've been trying to talk them off the ledge due to the lack of progression. (among other things touched on here...) On the last gen Evo the Cascade link was optional if you were someone who liked linear bikes, now on the SJ15 I feel like it's almost mandatory (like the gen 1 Sentinel). Hope @CascadeComponents sells a ton of these!

7
jalopyj
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Location
Concord, CA US
Fantasy
4/8/2025 10:30am

This is so sick. Love what Cascade Components are doing. 

10
4/8/2025 10:36am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2025 10:36am
chriskief wrote:

Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.

https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/

dolface wrote:
Looooool! I saw one of those IRL and the dude paid to shuttle it to the top of Mt. Hough (CA) to ride it down a...

Looooool! I saw one of those IRL and the dude paid to shuttle it to the top of Mt. Hough (CA) to ride it down a green flow trail... 🤑

The shuttle driver was rolling his eyes so hard they almost fell out of his head...

I know there's a shit ton wrong with that bike, but I can't help but notice that the seat tube angle looks to be approximately 56°

image 271
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4/8/2025 10:43am
chriskief wrote:

Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.

https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/

dolface wrote:
Looooool! I saw one of those IRL and the dude paid to shuttle it to the top of Mt. Hough (CA) to ride it down a...

Looooool! I saw one of those IRL and the dude paid to shuttle it to the top of Mt. Hough (CA) to ride it down a green flow trail... 🤑

The shuttle driver was rolling his eyes so hard they almost fell out of his head...

I know there's a shit ton wrong with that bike, but I can't help but notice that the seat tube angle looks to be approximately 56°

I know there's a shit ton wrong with that bike, but I can't help but notice that the seat tube angle looks to be approximately 56°

image 271

I think they used this for inspiration...

p4pb5842609
5
alannz
Posts
53
Joined
1/26/2025
Location
California, CA US
4/8/2025 10:46am
dolface wrote:

C'mon folks, it's ONE (1) click away: "Adjustable chain stay length" 

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/specialized/turbo-levo-6…

That doesn't solve the problem since every frame size has the same preset options for chainstay lengths of 435mm vs 444 mm. Specialized isn't preserving the front-center to rear-center ratio through the frame sizes, e.g. selecting 444mm on an S1 is a completely different bike than selecting 444mm on an S6...

5
4/8/2025 10:52am

@CascadeComponents  that SJ HP Conversion is nuts, chapeau to your engineers for pushing the envelope on what can be done.  

21
ebruner
Posts
356
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
4/8/2025 10:55am

Holy #$@^ the cascade products for the SJ15 are so fricken cool.  @CascadeComponents is this compatible with both the alloy and carbon versions?  Getting an alloy sj15 @ 2k + 2k for this setup at 4k is a way cooler bike then a SJ Carbon at 3,500.  Either way, what a cool thing for consumers for this platform.  

6
4/8/2025 11:04am
ebruner wrote:
Holy #$@^ the cascade products for the SJ15 are so fricken cool.  @CascadeComponents is this compatible with both the alloy and carbon versions?  Getting an...

Holy #$@^ the cascade products for the SJ15 are so fricken cool.  @CascadeComponents is this compatible with both the alloy and carbon versions?  Getting an alloy sj15 @ 2k + 2k for this setup at 4k is a way cooler bike then a SJ Carbon at 3,500.  Either way, what a cool thing for consumers for this platform.  

The standard link and yoke are. Haven't gotten a chance to test fit the high pivot kit on an aluminum frame yet though. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. If anyone in the greater Seattle area has an aluminum frame and wants to find out, swing by and we can throw it on.

22
4/8/2025 11:06am
I know there's a shit ton wrong with that bike, but I can't help but notice that the seat tube angle looks to be approximately 56°

I know there's a shit ton wrong with that bike, but I can't help but notice that the seat tube angle looks to be approximately 56°

image 271

I think it would be fun to have a 75 pound Surron. Only thing is, what rear tire options are out there? The largest mountain bike tire I can find thats appropriate is like a Minion 2.8

5
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