Re the drop that broke BK's Pivot... As has been said, it's a fairly steep/groomed landing. 100% still a massive impact upon landing... But not that insane when compared to the forces put through bikes by consumers. Think, 225lb dude at Whistler, doing a 15ft drop to a more flat landing. Probably as much energy being transferred into the frame as what BK did on the drop that broke his frame. Or same 225lb dude coming up short on a 20ft gap and casing hard. Again, probably similar or more energy than what's being driven through BK's frame on that Hardline drop.
As I said earlier... It looks like no other frames will be breaking on that drop so Pivot is a weaker frame/outlier. Chris has his guys back at Pivot HQ spec'ing more layers of carbon on future production runs of that DH frame!
Nobody is forcing these Manufacturers to participate. They can stay home if they don't feel like their equipment is up to the task. They COULD, and...
Nobody is forcing these Manufacturers to participate. They can stay home if they don't feel like their equipment is up to the task. They COULD, and in Pivot's case, probably should be more thoroughly dyno testing their frames after their last high profile bike failure.
You mentioned Evel Knievel and Harley Davidson... That combo of bike and rider was indeed groundbreaking, but there's a very good reason why freestyle riders and stunt riders have been riding Japanese and European motocross bikes, instead of HD's since the 80's. HD had no desire to keep up with the sport that E.K. had created. In Hardline's case, manufacturer spending is a drop in the bucket compared to what they spend racing world cups. In Evil Knievel's case, they paid him a tiny, tiny fraction of the money they spent (and still spend) racing Flat Track.
Yes, these events are side shows, but don't kid yourself all these companies love the (almost) free publicity.
Brook and Bernard are pretty much the same weight, but thats not super important. There are much heavier riders using production bikes and they can still...
Brook and Bernard are pretty much the same weight, but thats not super important. There are much heavier riders using production bikes and they can still put some massive strain on it too! There should be more than enough margin for error in these frames that hardline isn't an issue. If it was an ultra light prototype just for racing I could understand but they shouldn't be taking that to hardline if it was, and that was a production frame being used which is not a great sign.
This relates to one thing that always bugged me - production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass production, so it would be better if the bikes for sale were simplified and stronger, while the race bikes can be more highly tuned to suit the very specific task. I don't know if race on sunday, sell on monday is a great argument since the number of DH bikes sold is sweet FA
The point is bikes shouldn't just break like that - you only need to add an extra kilo or so to make a bike wayyyyy more reliable, and the gains for going lighter are negligible compared to the risks it creates
>production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass production
Since DH bikes have been dead commercially since about 2014, isn't any DH bike pretty much a "race only" bike anyways?
I worked at a dealer during that time too and it was absolutely as bad as the internet thought it was.I don’t buy the “pre-production” excuse...
I worked at a dealer during that time too and it was absolutely as bad as the internet thought it was.
I don’t buy the “pre-production” excuse. They all exploded, pretty much every SB5c and SB6c we sold. Front end, rear end, they all broke. At one point we had two bike boxes full of dead triangles.
Another point in favour of Pívot, is that the bike has raw footage on a daily basis. We probably will never know how many other frames cracked on those hits.
BK tried to preserve the brand by muting the sound, but the interwebz is a dangerous place...
I worked at a dealer during that time too and it was absolutely as bad as the internet thought it was.I don’t buy the “pre-production” excuse...
I worked at a dealer during that time too and it was absolutely as bad as the internet thought it was.
I don’t buy the “pre-production” excuse. They all exploded, pretty much every SB5c and SB6c we sold. Front end, rear end, they all broke. At one point we had two bike boxes full of dead triangles.
Both Pivot and Evil frames are, or were as of 2020, made in Myanmar at a place called Very Impressive Prospect Co., Ltd (VIP). Allegedly the factory...
Both Pivot and Evil frames are, or were as of 2020, made in Myanmar at a place called Very Impressive Prospect Co., Ltd (VIP).
Allegedly the factory workers tried to unionize and the labor leader was stabbed by goons.
the pic i posted was evil revolt rejects (either scrap frames from warranty, or QC rejects - I can't exactly remember, possibly a bit of both?), so that pic was from circa 2010 IIRC.
Both Pivot and Evil frames are, or were as of 2020, made in Myanmar at a place called Very Impressive Prospect Co., Ltd (VIP). Allegedly the factory...
Both Pivot and Evil frames are, or were as of 2020, made in Myanmar at a place called Very Impressive Prospect Co., Ltd (VIP).
Allegedly the factory workers tried to unionize and the labor leader was stabbed by goons.
Brook and Bernard are pretty much the same weight, but thats not super important. There are much heavier riders using production bikes and they can still...
Brook and Bernard are pretty much the same weight, but thats not super important. There are much heavier riders using production bikes and they can still put some massive strain on it too! There should be more than enough margin for error in these frames that hardline isn't an issue. If it was an ultra light prototype just for racing I could understand but they shouldn't be taking that to hardline if it was, and that was a production frame being used which is not a great sign.
This relates to one thing that always bugged me - production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass production, so it would be better if the bikes for sale were simplified and stronger, while the race bikes can be more highly tuned to suit the very specific task. I don't know if race on sunday, sell on monday is a great argument since the number of DH bikes sold is sweet FA
The point is bikes shouldn't just break like that - you only need to add an extra kilo or so to make a bike wayyyyy more reliable, and the gains for going lighter are negligible compared to the risks it creates
>production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass productionSince DH bikes have been dead commercially since about 2014, isn't...
>production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass production
Since DH bikes have been dead commercially since about 2014, isn't any DH bike pretty much a "race only" bike anyways?
There are exceptions for sure. But yes for the vast majority of brands it makes a ton of sense to focus on making a top quality race bike. Most the park rats are happier with a older or used model for less anyways.
New rear rotor, saint cranks, could be new saint groupset on the way! and what looks to be DHX2?
New rear rotor, saint cranks, could be new saint groupset on the way! and what looks to be DHX2?
Cranks are current m820 saint cranks, rear rotor looks to be a RT-CL900 which is available in 203mm but center lock only unlike the MT905 that are 6 bolts. And brakes looks like current XTR brakeset that Jackson and most of the Syndicate last year ran.
speaking of People breaking stuff... This is even more relative since Its BK. Remember the Chris Video of how BK Joined Pivot in the first place and how he used to break everything: Might be a bit of BK in the matter haha
The XTR branding looks as if they got SRAM to do it. I wonder if they will do an aluminium crank for trail/Enduro and a carbon...
The XTR branding looks as if they got SRAM to do it. I wonder if they will do an aluminium crank for trail/Enduro and a carbon crank for XC?
I don't have any idea. Could be logical, hopefully we'll see it soon.
Two further close photos (see e.g. the '12s' text). The cages seems to be different length on the two (?). Eagle-eyed people here might see some further important info, propably.
Yup,, I posted that a good 12 months ago. XTR and XT will have a trail/enduro and XC version, with heavier cranks/brakes/wheels for the enduro flavor. And...
Yup,, I posted that a good 12 months ago. XTR and XT will have a trail/enduro and XC version, with heavier cranks/brakes/wheels for the enduro flavor.
And they will be 13-speed.
For my info everything stays 12s, no 13s incoming...! Talk to a Manufactory insider a few weeks back.
XTR / XT / Deore 12s Wireless - 10-51 and 11-45
And NO Saint incoming, all the Proto Brakes are new XTR 4 Piston...But thes just my infos...
And I always thought all the hassle with that internal everything is to make the bikes look better 🙄
Re the drop that broke BK's Pivot... As has been said, it's a fairly steep/groomed landing. 100% still a massive impact upon landing... But not that insane when compared to the forces put through bikes by consumers. Think, 225lb dude at Whistler, doing a 15ft drop to a more flat landing. Probably as much energy being transferred into the frame as what BK did on the drop that broke his frame. Or same 225lb dude coming up short on a 20ft gap and casing hard. Again, probably similar or more energy than what's being driven through BK's frame on that Hardline drop.
As I said earlier... It looks like no other frames will be breaking on that drop so Pivot is a weaker frame/outlier. Chris has his guys back at Pivot HQ spec'ing more layers of carbon on future production runs of that DH frame!
Aiming for the pot-bellied pig aficionados.
New rear rotor, saint cranks, could be new saint groupset on the way! and what looks to be DHX2?
...up to task...
Sure.
Nah, you had it right the first time. Its Fox's new inverted fork!!
We've flown too close to the sun, back to CNC stem appreciation
>production bikes aren't always optimised for racing, and race bikes aren't the best for mass production
Since DH bikes have been dead commercially since about 2014, isn't any DH bike pretty much a "race only" bike anyways?
looks to be the current saint m820 derailleur.
Both Pivot and Evil frames are, or were as of 2020, made in Myanmar at a place called Very Impressive Prospect Co., Ltd (VIP).
Allegedly the factory workers tried to unionize and the labor leader was stabbed by goons.
https://globalmayday.net/2020/10/18/myanmar-union-busting-at-sporting-goods-factory/
I missed this was this about there new USD fork ? As thats been rumour/know for a while
Another point in favour of Pívot, is that the bike has raw footage on a daily basis. We probably will never know how many other frames cracked on those hits.
BK tried to preserve the brand by muting the sound, but the interwebz is a dangerous place...
the pic i posted was evil revolt rejects (either scrap frames from warranty, or QC rejects - I can't exactly remember, possibly a bit of both?), so that pic was from circa 2010 IIRC.
And twinlock!!
I believe they still are and you can assume most bikes that DW has a hand in the design and manufacturing are made in the same locations.
https://www.importinfo.com/very-impressive-prospect-co-ltd
Internet force nerds compare BK’s landed drop breaking the seat stay to Kaos casing the gap and walking away.
Which had more impact force?
There are exceptions for sure. But yes for the vast majority of brands it makes a ton of sense to focus on making a top quality race bike. Most the park rats are happier with a older or used model for less anyways.
Cranks are current m820 saint cranks, rear rotor looks to be a RT-CL900 which is available in 203mm but center lock only unlike the MT905 that are 6 bolts. And brakes looks like current XTR brakeset that Jackson and most of the Syndicate last year ran.
But that DHX2 looks to be the rumored MY2026 one.
from neko‘s IG, all the specs on the new MY26 fox float x2 asa‘s is riding.
Here so you zoom in easier (slide 6)
speaking of People breaking stuff... This is even more relative since Its BK.
Remember the Chris Video of how BK Joined Pivot in the first place and how he used to break everything:
Might be a bit of BK in the matter haha
Some new photos from the new Shimano 12-speed wireless Di2 sets, posted here (no idea about the source): https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=171477&start=45
It seems the set is full wireless. +1 pic from the new XTR crankset.
The rumoured carbon crank doesn’t look carbon to me
Anyone want to fill me in on what I missed with the pulled Fox post? 😁
The XTR branding looks as if they got SRAM to do it. I wonder if they will do an aluminium crank for trail/Enduro and a carbon crank for XC?
Yup,, I posted that a good 12 months ago. XTR and XT will have a trail/enduro and XC version, with heavier cranks/brakes/wheels for the enduro flavor.
And they will be 13-speed.
I don't have any idea. Could be logical, hopefully we'll see it soon.
Two further close photos (see e.g. the '12s' text). The cages seems to be different length on the two (?). Eagle-eyed people here might see some further important info, propably.
Should this be renamed to "Tech Rumors and Innovation, until a brand asks for posts to be deleted"?
What catches my eye is that the mounting looks really "traditional".
No direct mount / UDH style to be seen?
For my info everything stays 12s, no 13s incoming...! Talk to a Manufactory insider a few weeks back.
XTR / XT / Deore 12s Wireless - 10-51 and 11-45
And NO Saint incoming, all the Proto Brakes are new XTR 4 Piston...But thes just my infos...