MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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maxwrbike
Posts
18
Joined
1/10/2023
Location
Pisgah, NC, USA
12/29/2024 11:43am
Trocko wrote:
can’t spot any shifter cable. Could this finally be wireless shimano out in the wild? 

can’t spot any shifter cable. Could this finally be wireless shimano out in the wild?
 

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Shimano di2 12 speed has been available for ep801 bikes for about a year now. Tho there is a non e bike di2 drivetrain coming down the pipeline soon, allegedly. 

3
12/29/2024 4:33pm
segamethod wrote:

I've heard April would be a good time to expect some new Shimano stuff

April of which year? 2025, 2026, ? Wink

7
12/29/2024 4:58pm
segamethod wrote:

I've heard April would be a good time to expect some new Shimano stuff

April of which year? 2025, 2026, ? Wink

I heard June 24

3
12/30/2024 12:16pm
Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this...

Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this. I dont know why mountain bike stems are so expensive when everyone seems to be making them. Its a dumb “I need everything matching” kind of product. But if everyone is producing brakes and the market has a lot of genuinely decent competitors and hopefully parts that are standardized, Id love that. Hopefully they would maybe be less expensive with a market that is becoming more saturated and competitive. But honestly Im kind of laughing at my self while typing this because Im just thinking about the stem market. Because it seems that will never change. 

Looks like I'm late to the party since I've been on vacation. Brakes are definitely not easy. Between custom seals, custom tools, and some necessary knowledge that isn't widespread, good brakes take a lot. I would say they are either third or fourth most difficult thing on a bike behind the frame itself, the fork/shock, and, depending on specific design, the dropper. Some droppers are pretty simple, though. Frames are only on that list because doing a full blown production run requires tons of testing and the tooling is more complex. Brakes definitely are not something that anyone with a mill could up and make and have work well... or even work.

Stems are like T shirts. Sometimes people really want T shirts and I can't make T shirts. At that point, it might as well be an amusing T shirt. They either do what they are supposed to do or they don't and they are either light or heavy. Not much to else going on. There are plenty of other bike parts like that such as seat post clamps, cranks, and bottom brackets (unless your name is Hambini) that fall into the T shirt category. 

27
monarchmason
Posts
326
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA, USA
12/30/2024 12:24pm
Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this...

Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this. I dont know why mountain bike stems are so expensive when everyone seems to be making them. Its a dumb “I need everything matching” kind of product. But if everyone is producing brakes and the market has a lot of genuinely decent competitors and hopefully parts that are standardized, Id love that. Hopefully they would maybe be less expensive with a market that is becoming more saturated and competitive. But honestly Im kind of laughing at my self while typing this because Im just thinking about the stem market. Because it seems that will never change. 

Looks like I'm late to the party since I've been on vacation. Brakes are definitely not easy. Between custom seals, custom tools, and some necessary knowledge...

Looks like I'm late to the party since I've been on vacation. Brakes are definitely not easy. Between custom seals, custom tools, and some necessary knowledge that isn't widespread, good brakes take a lot. I would say they are either third or fourth most difficult thing on a bike behind the frame itself, the fork/shock, and, depending on specific design, the dropper. Some droppers are pretty simple, though. Frames are only on that list because doing a full blown production run requires tons of testing and the tooling is more complex. Brakes definitely are not something that anyone with a mill could up and make and have work well... or even work.

Stems are like T shirts. Sometimes people really want T shirts and I can't make T shirts. At that point, it might as well be an amusing T shirt. They either do what they are supposed to do or they don't and they are either light or heavy. Not much to else going on. There are plenty of other bike parts like that such as seat post clamps, cranks, and bottom brackets (unless your name is Hambini) that fall into the T shirt category. 

I appreciate that insight 😁

2
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
12/30/2024 1:28pm
Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this...

Is it hard? I think one account that does lurk here could answer that. That would be @CascadeComponents . Id love to see input on this. I dont know why mountain bike stems are so expensive when everyone seems to be making them. Its a dumb “I need everything matching” kind of product. But if everyone is producing brakes and the market has a lot of genuinely decent competitors and hopefully parts that are standardized, Id love that. Hopefully they would maybe be less expensive with a market that is becoming more saturated and competitive. But honestly Im kind of laughing at my self while typing this because Im just thinking about the stem market. Because it seems that will never change. 

Looks like I'm late to the party since I've been on vacation. Brakes are definitely not easy. Between custom seals, custom tools, and some necessary knowledge...

Looks like I'm late to the party since I've been on vacation. Brakes are definitely not easy. Between custom seals, custom tools, and some necessary knowledge that isn't widespread, good brakes take a lot. I would say they are either third or fourth most difficult thing on a bike behind the frame itself, the fork/shock, and, depending on specific design, the dropper. Some droppers are pretty simple, though. Frames are only on that list because doing a full blown production run requires tons of testing and the tooling is more complex. Brakes definitely are not something that anyone with a mill could up and make and have work well... or even work.

Stems are like T shirts. Sometimes people really want T shirts and I can't make T shirts. At that point, it might as well be an amusing T shirt. They either do what they are supposed to do or they don't and they are either light or heavy. Not much to else going on. There are plenty of other bike parts like that such as seat post clamps, cranks, and bottom brackets (unless your name is Hambini) that fall into the T shirt category. 

I was chasing a creak on my bike for ages, finally took a real good look at the stem, and the wear pattern on the h-bar clamp.  Im a big Transition bike fan, but that stem that came on my Spire....Hot Garbage.  Left a weird wear pattern on the h-bar as well, so both have been binned in favour of something else.

3
Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR, USA
12/30/2024 11:16pm

So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing my whole adult life;  “Simple” stuff you use every day at home. Most anything is easy to design in the grand scheme of things. 

Manufacturing anything on the other hand is hard. Everything you use everyday, I guarantee you is 100x more difficult and complex to produce then you can imagine. Some of these simple assemblies we ride probably meant a team of people worked months and beat their head on a wall to figure out how to get them made in bulk. 

8
MrDuck
Posts
87
Joined
2/2/2021
Location
CA
12/31/2024 12:53am
Cougar797 wrote:
So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing...

So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing my whole adult life;  “Simple” stuff you use every day at home. Most anything is easy to design in the grand scheme of things. 

Manufacturing anything on the other hand is hard. Everything you use everyday, I guarantee you is 100x more difficult and complex to produce then you can imagine. Some of these simple assemblies we ride probably meant a team of people worked months and beat their head on a wall to figure out how to get them made in bulk. 

This is very much my lesson of this month. 

I'm trying to fashion up a minor tweak on a bike, and it turns out solving the problem including prototypes and all is just fun tinkering, but then you think about scaling it up and not costing an arm and a leg, or even without considering cost just adding too much complexity. It's an interesting constraint to work with!

3
gibbon
Posts
467
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales, GB
12/31/2024 1:44am
Cougar797 wrote:
So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing...

So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing my whole adult life;  “Simple” stuff you use every day at home. Most anything is easy to design in the grand scheme of things. 

Manufacturing anything on the other hand is hard. Everything you use everyday, I guarantee you is 100x more difficult and complex to produce then you can imagine. Some of these simple assemblies we ride probably meant a team of people worked months and beat their head on a wall to figure out how to get them made in bulk. 

Anyone who follows Ministry bikes on insta will testify to the tribulations in trying to bring an idea to market as a small operation.

12
noodlenosteeze
Posts
219
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
12/31/2024 10:08am
Cougar797 wrote:
So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing...

So brakes, rims, your cable ends, as far as complexity I wanted to bring some perspective. I’m an engineer and have worked in consumer goods manufacturing my whole adult life;  “Simple” stuff you use every day at home. Most anything is easy to design in the grand scheme of things. 

Manufacturing anything on the other hand is hard. Everything you use everyday, I guarantee you is 100x more difficult and complex to produce then you can imagine. Some of these simple assemblies we ride probably meant a team of people worked months and beat their head on a wall to figure out how to get them made in bulk. 

gibbon wrote:

Anyone who follows Ministry bikes on insta will testify to the tribulations in trying to bring an idea to market as a small operation.

Live that guy. He has very few problems with designing a prototype and testing it. His main holdup is the added complexity of getting a sellable batch made. It's why he's stuck with small CNC machining.

 Also saw his Psalm 150 on display at the EXT tent at sea otter. It's a little bit of aluminum art. 

9
1/1/2025 7:32pm
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me 2 seasons with 1-2 regreases and they cost about a quarter of those. Maybe for $30 they'd make sense for people in certain climates but I can't see them selling too many of these. To be fair, I'm not against more options and this is a solid product for a niche of the industry.

 

3
jazza_wil
Posts
99
Joined
5/10/2011
Location
whistler, BC, CA
1/1/2025 7:56pm

Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be wrong though 

2
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/1/2025 8:34pm
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me...

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me 2 seasons with 1-2 regreases and they cost about a quarter of those. Maybe for $30 they'd make sense for people in certain climates but I can't see them selling too many of these. To be fair, I'm not against more options and this is a solid product for a niche of the industry.

 

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

3
3
ShapeThings
Posts
130
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA, USA
1/1/2025 9:19pm
jazza_wil wrote:
Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be...

Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be wrong though 

Yes, had one of their bottom brackets — didn’t last. Might work better for a headset or suspension application that doesn’t involve constant rotation. But I won’t pay the money to try it again. 

2
1/1/2025 10:00pm

I tried the SKF MTRX bearings in my BB. It was supposed to last a long time but seized up due to corrosion faster than anything else. 

3
Outlawed
Posts
63
Joined
3/29/2023
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, CA
Fantasy
1/1/2025 10:28pm

For what it is worth, the Enduro SL bearing in my idler pulley has seen almost 2500 miles of PNW riding and still spins freely.

4
iRider
Posts
116
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 2:49am
Outlawed wrote:

For what it is worth, the Enduro SL bearing in my idler pulley has seen almost 2500 miles of PNW riding and still spins freely.

So does every bushing in an old school XT derailleur if it is regularly maintained. This spinning freely is a marketing thing, what is more important is how well they spin under the load of the chain pull.

6
iRider
Posts
116
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 2:54am
Onawalk wrote:
The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.With the...

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease, SKF bearings with the better seals and prepped with marine grease last way longer on suspension pivots. 

For hub and BB bearings the marine grease gives too much resistance IMO, so I usually do not go down that route and instead buy just well-sealed items (or regrease them often).

1
boozed
Posts
722
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
1/2/2025 3:21am
jazza_wil wrote:
Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be...

Didn’t cane creek try out the skf version of these and drop them after a heap of issues 4 or 5 years ago? I might be wrong though 

The idea seems like it's primed for crevice corrosion if even a tiny amount of moisture gets in there

Disclaimer: definitely not a tribologist

3
Primoz
Posts
4680
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/2/2025 5:37am
Onawalk wrote:
The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.With the...

The warranty period is just there to let you know that theyre standing behind the product. You could concievably get much longer out of them.

With the frequency that people actually change out frame bearings (which is virtually never, or is only when there is a significant issue), if I saw these on a used bike, Id feel much more comfortable forking over my money.

Just thought they were interesting, I was surprised when I hadnt seen anything about Enduro bearings after Cane Creek came out with their BB with the same tech

iRider wrote:
I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease...

I usually avoid Enduro bearings because their sealing is not great. While I try to keep them alive by packing them regularly with marine waterproof grease, SKF bearings with the better seals and prepped with marine grease last way longer on suspension pivots. 

For hub and BB bearings the marine grease gives too much resistance IMO, so I usually do not go down that route and instead buy just well-sealed items (or regrease them often).

Interesting considering they are touting full contact seals in their pivot bearings whereas normal 2RS seals on most bearings are non or light contact at most..

3
iRider
Posts
116
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/2/2025 6:38am
Primoz wrote:

Interesting considering they are touting full contact seals in their pivot bearings whereas normal 2RS seals on most bearings are non or light contact at most..

I buy SKF 2RSH bearings, the "H" indicates a high friction seal (=tight).

https://evolution.skf.com/added-versatility-as-use-of-rsh-heavy-duty-seals-is-extended/#

Much longer lifespan on pre-regreasable bearings on Intense VPP frames.

3
HexonJuan
Posts
407
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
USA
1/2/2025 7:12am

I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the mech/user. Had a convo with one of the guys at the moto shop I rent space at about bearing failures and we went down a shallow rabbit hole. Turns out excessive grease causes premature bearing failure in a few ways, but one of the interesting ones was due to 'churning', where the balls have to force the grease out of their way as they rotate. This drives more heat in the system, prematurely breaking the grease down and of course prevents the balls and running surfaces from cooling, one of the whole points of grease in the first place. So, armed with new knowledge, he went about rebuilding his customer's KTM. Fast forward a year and the bike came back for a completely separate issue (dumped in a mud crossing, resulting in water ingestion into the carb). Wheels were still spinning smooth. What changed? He went with approx 50% fill rather than packing it in. I can't say I know a mech that hasn't overfilled a cartridge thinking it would improve longevity (myself included). For easy reading, check out this link: https://baartgroup.com/greasing-a-bearing-avoid-failure/#:~:text=Not%20….  

The idea of self-lubing cartridge balls is intriguing, but I think it's still in a bit of nascency. For now, I'll inspect new units prior to install for fill, clean out the stock grease and refill em to around 50% if necessary. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a plain bronze bearing in pivots though, and if I ever get off my hands and finish modeling my frame design I'll continue looking into angular needle bearings for the main pivot(s).

10
1
Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR, USA
1/2/2025 7:32am
Onawalk wrote:
owl-x wrote:

$49 bearings will save us

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me...

$49 is seems like a bit much, especially considering only a 2 year warranty period. Don't know about most people but my standard bearings last me 2 seasons with 1-2 regreases and they cost about a quarter of those. Maybe for $30 they'd make sense for people in certain climates but I can't see them selling too many of these. To be fair, I'm not against more options and this is a solid product for a niche of the industry.

 

I have had a frame or two that lower link bearings wouldn't stay very fresh in. I put them in said link and they were bullet proof. I don't understand why they need to be $50 though. I'd use them in all my pivot locations and headtube if they were half as much. 

2
Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR, USA
1/2/2025 7:34am
HexonJuan wrote:
I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the...

I think cartridge bearings get issues in a few ways, with the most prominent being insufficient lube from the factory followed by overzealous greasing by the mech/user. Had a convo with one of the guys at the moto shop I rent space at about bearing failures and we went down a shallow rabbit hole. Turns out excessive grease causes premature bearing failure in a few ways, but one of the interesting ones was due to 'churning', where the balls have to force the grease out of their way as they rotate. This drives more heat in the system, prematurely breaking the grease down and of course prevents the balls and running surfaces from cooling, one of the whole points of grease in the first place. So, armed with new knowledge, he went about rebuilding his customer's KTM. Fast forward a year and the bike came back for a completely separate issue (dumped in a mud crossing, resulting in water ingestion into the carb). Wheels were still spinning smooth. What changed? He went with approx 50% fill rather than packing it in. I can't say I know a mech that hasn't overfilled a cartridge thinking it would improve longevity (myself included). For easy reading, check out this link: https://baartgroup.com/greasing-a-bearing-avoid-failure/#:~:text=Not%20….  

The idea of self-lubing cartridge balls is intriguing, but I think it's still in a bit of nascency. For now, I'll inspect new units prior to install for fill, clean out the stock grease and refill em to around 50% if necessary. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a plain bronze bearing in pivots though, and if I ever get off my hands and finish modeling my frame design I'll continue looking into angular needle bearings for the main pivot(s).

The greasing topic to me is a matter of application. Headset and linkage pivots, sure I'll pack them heavy with thick grease to keep moisture and dirt out. Wheel bearings or anything spinning fast, lighter grease, maybe even a few drops of trans oil to keep the slurry light and fast. 

9
1/2/2025 10:58am

They've had these for a few years, so I'm not sure why Brain picked it up now but I guess most people didn't realise they existed? I got a couple to test but haven't fitted them to anything - they appear to be a standard-ish ball bearing with something similar to a wax lubricant filling. It's possibly a good idea, the wax should handle high pressure better than grease as well as resisting washout better. I thought they might suit some of the stupid bearing sizes bike companies often use in pivots like 6802 which are way undergunned for the application. It's tough to get alternatives from someone like SKF too, because no sane industry would use that size in a high-load application!

2
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