2025 Rail is up on Trek EU websites with all builds & prices, but the bike is still not released or shown anywhere else (no US/CAN prices/builds or review out).
So kind of like the biological world where everything becomes a crab.
Or like all gas powered cars (and trucks) ended up with turbo 4 cyl engines. Best configuration for the job (Edit: according to the product manager and bean-counters).
Personal opinions aside, in most markets you'll see a convergence of design. This is especially true with a market that is heavily influenced by performance of...
Personal opinions aside, in most markets you'll see a convergence of design. This is especially true with a market that is heavily influenced by performance of a product or system being most heavily valued by the consumer of the product. The more the underlying form needs to adhere to very rigid design criteria for an intended function, optimization will likely yield at most a handful and at least a single design that will win out. Straying from this "best" design will put you at a significant disadvantage, especially when the product itself is intended to do something more than just "look cool".
I'd argue we value performance more than anything in the mountain bike space hence the trend of things looking similar will probably continue (or intensify). While I don't think they'll be one singular design, I do think we're way past where we were in the early 2000s, where there were seemingly endless suspension and geometry configurations.
Don't believe me? Just look at other two wheel'd sports like off road moto, where most bikes follow similar lines, geomtery, and suspension layout. Another example would be something like jetliners where there are nuanced differences, but more or less all commercial airliners look alike.
Or like all gas powered cars (and trucks) ended up with turbo 4 cyl engines. Best configuration for the job (Edit: according to the product manager...
Or like all gas powered cars (and trucks) ended up with turbo 4 cyl engines. Best configuration for the job (Edit: according to the product manager and bean-counters).
Best configuration to do well on emissions and fuel mileage testing since the test allows them to stay off or low boost for most of the test cycle.
Funny Santa Cruz is like "VPP is holding us back on longer travel e-bikes, we have to move on" and Crestline's like "here's our 182mm VPP...
Funny Santa Cruz is like "VPP is holding us back on longer travel e-bikes, we have to move on" and Crestline's like "here's our 182mm VPP ebike!"
Curious if Cascade is willing to comment on the Cruz' take or if they're a little too close to home to do so.
I don't think there's anything about the Crestline, Hecker, or Bullit that ride poorly. From a personal perspective I'd go as far as to say I will likely prefer that set of bikes over the Vala. That is something that comes down to anti-rise. The one thing with shock tunnel bikes, though, is seat post length is limited.
Going back to why I might prefer those three VPP e-bikes. This mostly comes down to anti-rise. Horst link bikes pretty much always have low anti-rise numbers at all points of travel. I've come to prefer bikes where anti-rise starts up around 100% at top of travel and then drops off the map by bottom of travel. On lower angle trails it's not a big deal and I could go either way. On steeper stuff I'm not a fan though. This became most apparent to me when I was riding some steep rolls with decent traction on the Enduro back to back with some VPP bikes. Low anti-rise and active suspension is the hot marketing thing, but there's a fine line between that and chassis stability. I also happen to be of a height such that a 175 mm is about the max that's usable for me.
Interesting take- I'm kinda the opposite. I like seeing the convergence of designs and features. At this point companies have to sweat the details and provide...
Interesting take- I'm kinda the opposite. I like seeing the convergence of designs and features. At this point companies have to sweat the details and provide superior value to get business.
I want a reliable, good value that does what it's supposed to do... Don't care if the bike is different or rare.
Gonna agree with this, give me "boring" but good geo and kinematics and looks, but give me decent value and warranty. Obviously this would apply to...
Gonna agree with this, give me "boring" but good geo and kinematics and looks, but give me decent value and warranty. Obviously this would apply to a lot of the main brands, plenty of smaller players can do the niche stuff...
I mentioned the boring thing before. It wasn't meant to be comment on looks or how different a layout is, though homogenous looking bikes are boring too haha. It was more about the ride feel, the kinematics, wheel path, leverage ratio, how those are all combined. I've ridden 4 bar bikes that are really fun, responsive, fast, and provide good feedback without being harsh. My Norco Sight, the GT Force HP, the last few Rocky Mountains I've ridden, all great bikes, distinct from each other, and fun to ride. Where as the Canyon spectral and the 4 Bar stump jumpers (sorry spesh fans) have just felt a bit too muted or unresponsive to me. Shock tune, weight and other factors could have affected that I know, so I won't say that either are bad bikes.
2025 Rail is up on Trek EU websites with all builds & prices, but the bike is still not released or shown anywhere else (no US/CAN...
2025 Rail is up on Trek EU websites with all builds & prices, but the bike is still not released or shown anywhere else (no US/CAN prices/builds or review out).
My rides are middling quality at best.So that's me out. I'm glad they are built for exceptional handling, that must have been a difficult design meeting "right we are going for average handling, focus groups and the canteen staff have expressed a preference for medicrity in the handling department. They also were very keen on skimping on layup and bearings too, so were going to prioritize that as well". Who writes this horsesh1t?
Funny Santa Cruz is like "VPP is holding us back on longer travel e-bikes, we have to move on" and Crestline's like "here's our 182mm VPP...
Funny Santa Cruz is like "VPP is holding us back on longer travel e-bikes, we have to move on" and Crestline's like "here's our 182mm VPP ebike!"
Curious if Cascade is willing to comment on the Cruz' take or if they're a little too close to home to do so.
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO). I'm sure it rides exceptionally well for a crab-link though
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO)...
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO). I'm sure it rides exceptionally well for a crab-link though
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO)...
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO). I'm sure it rides exceptionally well for a crab-link though
Which is more weird since Trek usually have an inbetween M/L for most of their MTB model which would slot in nicely with a 470mm reach...
Which is more weird since Trek usually have an inbetween M/L for most of their MTB model which would slot in nicely with a 470mm reach in this case.
I always hear people complain their 470 ish reach bike is either to big or to small - which i often hear from Specilized/nukeproof etc owners who buy the s4/large... say its either to big or to small.
I don't think there's anything about the Crestline, Hecker, or Bullit that ride poorly. From a personal perspective I'd go as far as to say I...
I don't think there's anything about the Crestline, Hecker, or Bullit that ride poorly. From a personal perspective I'd go as far as to say I will likely prefer that set of bikes over the Vala. That is something that comes down to anti-rise. The one thing with shock tunnel bikes, though, is seat post length is limited.
Going back to why I might prefer those three VPP e-bikes. This mostly comes down to anti-rise. Horst link bikes pretty much always have low anti-rise numbers at all points of travel. I've come to prefer bikes where anti-rise starts up around 100% at top of travel and then drops off the map by bottom of travel. On lower angle trails it's not a big deal and I could go either way. On steeper stuff I'm not a fan though. This became most apparent to me when I was riding some steep rolls with decent traction on the Enduro back to back with some VPP bikes. Low anti-rise and active suspension is the hot marketing thing, but there's a fine line between that and chassis stability. I also happen to be of a height such that a 175 mm is about the max that's usable for me.
Wait, not a fan of VPP anti-rise dropping off the map or the consistent (low) anti-rise of Horst-link bikes?
I always hear people complain their 470 ish reach bike is either to big or to small - which i often hear from Specilized/nukeproof etc owners...
I always hear people complain their 470 ish reach bike is either to big or to small - which i often hear from Specilized/nukeproof etc owners who buy the s4/large... say its either to big or to small.
side note, Trek are Trying to reduce SKU's.
I disagree with those people, but I’m probably wrong.
On the VALA, curious that it specs Schwalbe Radial tyres and no Maxxis unlike every other Santa Cruz stock build
Could be the en-PON-ification of Santa Cruz. Deepening of the influence by the corporate overloads.
Or maybe SC just like the tire and got a good cost for them. I’m running the Albert Gravity as a front, I like it aside from it running real narrow for a 2.5. Edit: the maxxis WT 2.5 is my gold standard.
Not sure if this was caught by anyone else, but Open might have just leaked some details on a new Shimano derailleur while promoting a new gravel frame of theirs?
2025 Rail is up on Trek EU websites with all builds & prices, but the bike is still not released or shown anywhere else (no US/CAN prices/builds or review out).
https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/rail-plus-high-powered-emtb/
Funny Santa Cruz is like "VPP is holding us back on longer travel e-bikes, we have to move on" and Crestline's like "here's our 182mm VPP ebike!"
Curious if Cascade is willing to comment on the Cruz' take or if they're a little too close to home to do so.
Or like all gas powered cars (and trucks) ended up with turbo 4 cyl engines. Best configuration for the job (Edit: according to the product manager and bean-counters).
Look how far forward the motor is on the Crestline bikes though.
Yeah crabs are basically the horst link bikes of the animal world. Everything eventually evolves to crab.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation
Kinda how most modern cars look super similar. They are all using similar software to optimize drag, minimize lift, etc, so the outputs are similar
Best configuration to do well on emissions and fuel mileage testing since the test allows them to stay off or low boost for most of the test cycle.
Holla for the Vala at midnight.
I don't think there's anything about the Crestline, Hecker, or Bullit that ride poorly. From a personal perspective I'd go as far as to say I will likely prefer that set of bikes over the Vala. That is something that comes down to anti-rise. The one thing with shock tunnel bikes, though, is seat post length is limited.
Going back to why I might prefer those three VPP e-bikes. This mostly comes down to anti-rise. Horst link bikes pretty much always have low anti-rise numbers at all points of travel. I've come to prefer bikes where anti-rise starts up around 100% at top of travel and then drops off the map by bottom of travel. On lower angle trails it's not a big deal and I could go either way. On steeper stuff I'm not a fan though. This became most apparent to me when I was riding some steep rolls with decent traction on the Enduro back to back with some VPP bikes. Low anti-rise and active suspension is the hot marketing thing, but there's a fine line between that and chassis stability. I also happen to be of a height such that a 175 mm is about the max that's usable for me.
Still has the current gen AXS Reverb or was that just for the release pics?
I mentioned the boring thing before. It wasn't meant to be comment on looks or how different a layout is, though homogenous looking bikes are boring too haha. It was more about the ride feel, the kinematics, wheel path, leverage ratio, how those are all combined. I've ridden 4 bar bikes that are really fun, responsive, fast, and provide good feedback without being harsh. My Norco Sight, the GT Force HP, the last few Rocky Mountains I've ridden, all great bikes, distinct from each other, and fun to ride. Where as the Canyon spectral and the 4 Bar stump jumpers (sorry spesh fans) have just felt a bit too muted or unresponsive to me. Shock tune, weight and other factors could have affected that I know, so I won't say that either are bad bikes.
Wowzers, 490/495 mm reach in a large and 450/455 for a medium, maybe some people will love that but that feels like to large of a jump between sizes,.
My rides are middling quality at best.So that's me out.
I'm glad they are built for exceptional handling, that must have been a difficult design meeting "right we are going for average handling, focus groups and the canteen staff have expressed a preference for medicrity in the handling department. They also were very keen on skimping on layup and bearings too, so were going to prioritize that as well".
Who writes this horsesh1t?
Not to be too negative, but at first glance I feel like the main design priority was no Shimano motor (although the EP801 is great IMO). I'm sure it rides exceptionally well for a crab-link though
<scuttles off to trademark "Crab-Link">
Which is more weird since Trek usually have an inbetween M/L for most of their MTB model which would slot in nicely with a 470mm reach in this case.
Scuttles made me actually lol, family is looking at me weird now.
"It's a bike joke. About crabs. And marketing. And evolution."
I always hear people complain their 470 ish reach bike is either to big or to small - which i often hear from Specilized/nukeproof etc owners who buy the s4/large... say its either to big or to small.
side note, Trek are Trying to reduce SKU's.
Wait, not a fan of VPP anti-rise dropping off the map or the consistent (low) anti-rise of Horst-link bikes?
Consistent low anti rise is not something I like.
I disagree with those people, but I’m probably wrong.
More of the new Rail+
On the VALA, curious that it specs Schwalbe Radial tyres and no Maxxis unlike every other Santa Cruz stock build
Could be the en-PON-ification of Santa Cruz. Deepening of the influence by the corporate overloads.
Or maybe SC just like the tire and got a good cost for them. I’m running the Albert Gravity as a front, I like it aside from it running real narrow for a 2.5. Edit: the maxxis WT 2.5 is my gold standard.
You can get medication for that.
Complete Trek Rail bike range has been published on this french magazine :
https://www.velovert.com/news/18933/trek--les-nouveaux-rail-powerfly-et-powerfly-fs
This might be the most unexciting bike I've seen in ages
Not sure if this was caught by anyone else, but Open might have just leaked some details on a new Shimano derailleur while promoting a new gravel frame of theirs?
https://opencycle.com/blog/new-direction-for-up-and-upper
Have you seen the new Focus Jam²?