MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Uncle Cliffy
Posts
380
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR US
7/27/2024 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2024 1:31pm
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. 

Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing. 

This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift. 

The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur. 

 

I’m getting the vibe this is a word salad thing for everybody. 

Maybe try this: The chain “knows” when to shift because of how the system/cassette is designed. 

Or even better: the chain “knows” what to do after the derailleur instructs it to move.

Almost sounds like I’m describing a mechanical drivetrain…

image 3.gif?VersionId=2vbHI

 

8
TimBud
Posts
533
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/27/2024 2:08pm

Of course it doesn’t know.

Transmission just makes the shift way slower so it appears to be smooth (and under load). It’s really not hard to make it try to shift outside of Sram’s pre-determined and ideal algorithm of cadence, chain/cassette position, torque… and then its a rough as you’d expect. It’s not magic, it’s just well engineered albeit flawed system.

I like my GX T-type. It’s not as smooth as my old axs hybrid setup, but it also hasn’t really skipped a beat. And remembering to charge a battery isn’t hard. I’ve had many customer’s question the battery charging but they all have the basic intelligence/initiative to fuel their car, charge their phone etc. so the concern is ways easy to counter.

 It’s literally only people on this forum of supposed nerds/geeks that seem to struggle to be able to plug something in. I’ve yet to meet anyone in real life (UK and EU) that has any real issues in that department.

5
Evil96
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804
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Portogruaro, VE IT
7/27/2024 2:49pm

Given that the Spindrift is missing the refresh, it's safe to assume this is coming soon, the bike pictured is carbon, has the proper routing as well as the tourismcrap, and has a ZEB, therefore Spindrift for sure, also saw that even this one got the other "failure"update in my book, which is the rear caliper sitting inside the frame, which makes it harder to adjust the brake and not every caliper will fit ( hope for example doesn't) let's see how it is when it comes outIMG 9300

1
gibbon
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wales GB
7/28/2024 6:34am

That's probably just a Ransom with a 40 but I suspect the new Gambler will not be wildly different.

Nobble
Posts
226
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9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO US
7/28/2024 7:47am
gibbon wrote:

That's probably just a Ransom with a 40 but I suspect the new Gambler will not be wildly different.

I don’t think that’s a Ransom. The proportions of the shock bolt and shock cover are wrong. Also, it’s hard to tell from the angle, but I think the rocker link is longer and the seattube-toptube junction is way closer to the rocker link.

7
nicompr
Posts
55
Joined
12/9/2021
Location
Villes FR
7/28/2024 7:50am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2024 7:50am
gibbon wrote:

That's probably just a Ransom with a 40 but I suspect the new Gambler will not be wildly different.

1000011534 11000011537 1.jpg?VersionId=EY621DzG7k5MG7yFKBN9g vvJI don't think so. Here the 2 bikes side by side. Looks like the frame is more sloppy, there's an big angle between the top tube and seat tube and the upper looks longer than on the ransom

13
7/28/2024 7:56am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2024 8:01am
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which...

Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which it does. Marketing hyperbole or not.

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. 

Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing. 

This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift. 

The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur. 

 

It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as...

It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as per the marketing material... It works it out.

is this level of technology above your head?

Apparently understanding English is above your head. I'm sorry that you lack the comprehension and critical thinking skills to evaluate marketing prose.

The drivetrain doesn't know when the first shift occurs, so it can't know when the second shift occurs. The second (and subsequent shifts are delayed simply to avoid the derailleur moving and increasing the pressure on the chain. The amount of time it is delayed is an educated guess at best, the drivetrain doesn't "know" the position of the chain relative to shift gates.

28
grinch
Posts
252
Joined
10/15/2013
Location
CA
7/28/2024 8:02am

Maybe you guys can talk in french then? 

 Reason 420 why we need gear boxes- we dont have to scroll past 10 pages of derailleur impressions

18
4
gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
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Location
wales GB
7/28/2024 9:14am
nicompr wrote:
I don't think so. Here the 2 bikes side by side. Looks like the frame is more sloppy, there's an big angle between the top tube...

1000011534 11000011537 1.jpg?VersionId=EY621DzG7k5MG7yFKBN9g vvJI don't think so. Here the 2 bikes side by side. Looks like the frame is more sloppy, there's an big angle between the top tube and seat tube and the upper looks longer than on the ransom

I was half right!!

1
7/28/2024 11:19am
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. 

Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing. 

This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift. 

The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur. 

 

It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as...

It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as per the marketing material... It works it out.

is this level of technology above your head?

Apparently understanding English is above your head. I'm sorry that you lack the comprehension and critical thinking skills to evaluate marketing prose.The drivetrain doesn't know when...

Apparently understanding English is above your head. I'm sorry that you lack the comprehension and critical thinking skills to evaluate marketing prose.

The drivetrain doesn't know when the first shift occurs, so it can't know when the second shift occurs. The second (and subsequent shifts are delayed simply to avoid the derailleur moving and increasing the pressure on the chain. The amount of time it is delayed is an educated guess at best, the drivetrain doesn't "know" the position of the chain relative to shift gates.

Bruh shut up alreadly and post a tech rumor 

24
8
seanfisseli
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568
Joined
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Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/28/2024 11:21pm

Here’s a rumor I heard: sram and shimano said that you’re all going to ride singlespeeds until you learn to get along.

13
5
7/29/2024 12:43am

New manufacturer entering the brake market from the south west UK - Hel. Think they usually specialise in racing brakes/brake parts for cars and motorbikes.

12
boozed
Posts
661
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
7/29/2024 2:19am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2024 8:37pm

I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for it.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/collections/most-popular/products/telum

https://nsdynamics.com.au/collections/vorsprung/products/vorsprung-telum-coil-shock

Edit: this was only meant to be an observation that the release had slipped under the radar (or perhaps only my radar?)

 

2
29
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232
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Location
AT
7/29/2024 2:33am
boozed wrote:
I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for...

I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for it.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/collections/most-popular/products/telum

https://nsdynamics.com.au/collections/vorsprung/products/vorsprung-telum-coil-shock

Edit: this was only meant to be an observation that the release had slipped under the radar (or perhaps only my radar?)

 

Would love the black spacer rings and adjuster as an option from sprindex. The red and grey just kinda looks ass on a lot of shocks. 

6
DServy
Posts
235
Joined
5/28/2015
Location
Jackson, WY US
7/29/2024 7:31am
boozed wrote:
I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for...

I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for it.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/collections/most-popular/products/telum

https://nsdynamics.com.au/collections/vorsprung/products/vorsprung-telum-coil-shock

Edit: this was only meant to be an observation that the release had slipped under the radar (or perhaps only my radar?)

 

It should just be the first production run they sold out. You should be able to pre-order the shock.

I have one on my Dreadnought V2 and it is.... Very good. Like.... holy shit is that shock good. 

9
FaahkEet
Posts
104
Joined
3/12/2023
Location
Falls Church, VA US
7/29/2024 8:25am
boozed wrote:
I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for...

I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for it.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/collections/most-popular/products/telum

https://nsdynamics.com.au/collections/vorsprung/products/vorsprung-telum-coil-shock

Edit: this was only meant to be an observation that the release had slipped under the radar (or perhaps only my radar?)

 

I was able to add to cart. I selected 230x65 and changed currency to usd. After that the add to cart option appeared. I think it was sold out prior to changing currency.

1
jonkranked
Posts
1185
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Location
Norristown, PA US
7/29/2024 8:28am
boozed wrote:
I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for...

I just received an email from a local dealer about the Vorsprung Telum, only to notice that Vorsprung has already closed a round of pre-orders for it.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/collections/most-popular/products/telum

https://nsdynamics.com.au/collections/vorsprung/products/vorsprung-telum-coil-shock

Edit: this was only meant to be an observation that the release had slipped under the radar (or perhaps only my radar?)

 

FaahkEet wrote:
I was able to add to cart. I selected 230x65 and changed currency to usd. After that the add to cart option appeared. I think it...

I was able to add to cart. I selected 230x65 and changed currency to usd. After that the add to cart option appeared. I think it was sold out prior to changing currency.

sounds like it might be driven by regional allocations

2
Ploutre
Posts
37
Joined
12/17/2012
Location
FR
7/29/2024 1:51pm
peecee wrote:
New gambler ? https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9731UWsMtx/?igsh=cXdqdHdvZDZ3cDky

Yes it is, as mentionned already very close to the current Ransom, but that's the Gambler that was ridden at the IXS cup. Not sure yet if the team will be riding it at the World Champs, but they're spending a bunch of time on it to dial in the platform and setup.

1
Evil96
Posts
804
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Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
7/29/2024 2:25pm

New Spindrift seems ready 

And with proper routing 🏆 

3
Evil96
Posts
804
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Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
7/29/2024 2:25pm
IMG 9454 0
14
7/29/2024 3:49pm
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. 

Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing. 

This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift. 

The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur. 

 

"there is no way to prevent forcing a shift"

Let me introduce you to the latest, greatest, new thing from Shimano that just came out only 20 years ago, Rapid Rise! 🤣

6
7/29/2024 5:39pm
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...

The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. 

Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing. 

This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift. 

The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur. 

 

"there is no way to prevent forcing a shift"Let me introduce you to the latest, greatest, new thing from Shimano that just came out only 20...

"there is no way to prevent forcing a shift"

Let me introduce you to the latest, greatest, new thing from Shimano that just came out only 20 years ago, Rapid Rise! 🤣

Man, that's an old school call back. 

2
metadave
Posts
1247
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
Fantasy
7/29/2024 7:27pm

Ok, I've shit on Scott's internal shock designs on here forever and while if I'm being honest, the long travel bikes do look good, my minds not changing on the serviceability side of things and that their bikes are a consumer nightmare. Why are they pushing the internal shock thing so hard? Is it just to be different? Is it to have a selling point to some "needs the cool new thing" consumer out there because their bikes didn't have any real reason to buy them over another bike until they had a unique thing? That isn't actually that unique because they just copied a company they bought while producing both similar lines at the same time. I'm willing to give room for it with xc/trail/Enduro bikes because people love techy things, but I'm actually baffled at a DH bike that takes away serviceability for form. If there's a bike that doesn't need a shitty gimmick that takes away from a weekend at the races, it's a DH bike. 

14
1
7/29/2024 8:20pm

Anybody have any idea when TRP will release the new lever design with the bite point adjust?

2
Evil96
Posts
804
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
7/29/2024 9:20pm
metadave wrote:
Ok, I've shit on Scott's internal shock designs on here forever and while if I'm being honest, the long travel bikes do look good, my minds...

Ok, I've shit on Scott's internal shock designs on here forever and while if I'm being honest, the long travel bikes do look good, my minds not changing on the serviceability side of things and that their bikes are a consumer nightmare. Why are they pushing the internal shock thing so hard? Is it just to be different? Is it to have a selling point to some "needs the cool new thing" consumer out there because their bikes didn't have any real reason to buy them over another bike until they had a unique thing? That isn't actually that unique because they just copied a company they bought while producing both similar lines at the same time. I'm willing to give room for it with xc/trail/Enduro bikes because people love techy things, but I'm actually baffled at a DH bike that takes away serviceability for form. If there's a bike that doesn't need a shitty gimmick that takes away from a weekend at the races, it's a DH bike. 

Because Scott, that’s why, dumb bikes with dumb solution, shame cause years ago they actually looked good, and rode good like the gambler 

3
3
7/29/2024 9:52pm
metadave wrote:
Ok, I've shit on Scott's internal shock designs on here forever and while if I'm being honest, the long travel bikes do look good, my minds...

Ok, I've shit on Scott's internal shock designs on here forever and while if I'm being honest, the long travel bikes do look good, my minds not changing on the serviceability side of things and that their bikes are a consumer nightmare. Why are they pushing the internal shock thing so hard? Is it just to be different? Is it to have a selling point to some "needs the cool new thing" consumer out there because their bikes didn't have any real reason to buy them over another bike until they had a unique thing? That isn't actually that unique because they just copied a company they bought while producing both similar lines at the same time. I'm willing to give room for it with xc/trail/Enduro bikes because people love techy things, but I'm actually baffled at a DH bike that takes away serviceability for form. If there's a bike that doesn't need a shitty gimmick that takes away from a weekend at the races, it's a DH bike. 

Internal routing is super simple on Scott bikes because of the big hatch you open to access the shock, and you’re going to prolong shock life simply by less exposure to the elements and potentially allow for better performance in wet conditions - its a gimmick and if you asked me 12 months ago id have whole heartedly agreed with you - but honestly the more I see them in person the more im starting to like them.

7
12
7/29/2024 10:44pm
Evil96 wrote:
New Spindrift seems ready And with proper routing 🏆 

New Spindrift seems ready 

And with proper routing 🏆 

A Propain employee was on Pinkbike saying they read the comments on their bike reviews and they got it wrong with headset cable routing as everyone didn't want it. So kudos to them for listening. 

20
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