Guessing you're a transplant to the South? ;) These things are everywhere in college and pro ball. Not sure they are that applicable to most of...
Guessing you're a transplant to the South?
These things are everywhere in college and pro ball. Not sure they are that applicable to most of our falls, but can't imagine they hurt anything. Regardless, good thing to share as I bet most people on here haven't seen them.
If we're going to start adopting things from (american) football, I humbly request, on behalf of all southeastern US riders, that we give some consideration to sweatbands being cool. It's really hot and humid down here, and getting worse.
Also, if the set up Loic has goes to production, we should consider wearing these to remember what all the buttons do.
Ha! I seem to remember getting a Trestle/Colorado Freeride Festival branded sweatband in my race bag years ago - might have to dig it up!
Guessing you're a transplant to the South? ;) These things are everywhere in college and pro ball. Not sure they are that applicable to most of...
Guessing you're a transplant to the South?
These things are everywhere in college and pro ball. Not sure they are that applicable to most of our falls, but can't imagine they hurt anything. Regardless, good thing to share as I bet most people on here haven't seen them.
If we're going to start adopting things from (american) football, I humbly request, on behalf of all southeastern US riders, that we give some consideration to sweatbands being cool. It's really hot and humid down here, and getting worse.
Also, if the set up Loic has goes to production, we should consider wearing these to remember what all the buttons do.
Not really a tech rumor, but other site has the AL Dirtlove release out. Nothing special on that frame, adjustable dropouts, drilling for a gyro, the built in crankstop is interesting. $1400 for the top spec is really good though.
Marin's Alcatraz has a similar spec to the Core 1 for $500 more. Big S has the same spec as the Core 2 for $700 more. I bet they're gonna sell a good amount of these.
I think it's officially being released tomorrow, but it looks like Knolly posted a video for the new Delirium early. I've heard it's going to be a pretty limited release, though (only 100 frames).
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will rise nonetheless. the industry is gonna try to milk us until MTB is back to being a niche sport.
The lack of cable ports on future carbon frames is bumming me out. Wireless-only sucks for people who like to optimize for on-trail performance. I prefer carbon frames due to better alignment, fatigue life, and saving 2 lbs without decrease in durability, so going to alum isn't the right compromise. Our cohort has always prioritized spending $$ on top tier suspension, brakes, and wheels, while almost universally selecting "good enough" drivetrain at the XT/GX level.
I realize that showroom shopping squids prefer fancy looking gadgets to performance. This sucks and bums me out.
I'm counting on the mid-sized brands to eat the lunch of the big dogs on this one by not forcing us to spend an extra $800 on wireless. That's a set of great brakes right there. Brakes actually matter.
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will...
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will rise nonetheless. the industry is gonna try to milk us until MTB is back to being a niche sport.
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up the cost on new products that we didn't really need in the first place so then they have to hopefully force the consumer into having to buy these new products. For example wireless only frames.
Just keep producing the same drivetrains that worked and consumers will by replacement cassettes, mechs and chains as needed the tooling is already paid for and the profit margins are higher the longer they are still available to sell replacment parts.
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only model, adding complexity and network connection requirements that didn't improve the actual user experience. Now, the more I hear about bullshit AI integration in future versions of Windows, the more I consider abandoning Microsoft altogether and taking the leap to a Linux-powered computer that does what I need and no more.
I bring this up because I think there's a possible parallel to the mountain bike industry. We're seeing the major companies push features that feel frivolous or downright unwanted, because actual major developments in geometry, linkage design, frame construction, etc. have seemingly plateaued (probably not forever, but at least for right now) and the brands are chasing novelty and an appearance of prestige. But it may just push more users away from the 'core' brands/companies toward smaller or alternative brands that offer the features or user experience that the major companies have abandoned. Unfortunately, just like switching away from Windows or MacOS, this will probably require a little bit more technical knowledge, and some people will probably just grumble and accept the compromises they're being offered in the front window of the local shop. But it seems like there could be enough of a user base interested in things like mechanical drivetrains, easily serviceable linkages, etc to sustain an economy of smaller, more focused companies that don't push nonsensical designs for the sake of novelty.
OK, state-of-the-industry speculation over. Back to tech rumors. Re: the new Santa Cruz--WTF is an integrated headtube badge?
The wireless only stuff seems pretty dumb but then I don’t really care, my next unassisted bike will have a gearbox. Any rumors on new entries in that market?
I’ve got money for the right gearbox bike and the right lightweight enduro emtb but not sure when either will come along.
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from...
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from wood thank you very much.
In hindsight I should’ve started that comment, with “screw wireless”!
I stand by the rest of it. Keep it up lads the hate for change is at an all time level of hilarity.
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will...
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will rise nonetheless. the industry is gonna try to milk us until MTB is back to being a niche sport.
Seems like horrible timing for the first gen of ultra premium, wireless only pedal bikes to be released. The industry has been practically giving away bikes for the last year, and now they're gonna try and upsell with more expensive builds? Doesn't seem like it'll work out for everyone, and some models might flop IMO.
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
Unpopular opinion but transmission is a clear/undeniable benefit over any existing cable stuff
Seems like horrible timing for the first gen of ultra premium, wireless only pedal bikes to be released. The industry has been practically giving away bikes...
Seems like horrible timing for the first gen of ultra premium, wireless only pedal bikes to be released. The industry has been practically giving away bikes for the last year, and now they're gonna try and upsell with more expensive builds? Doesn't seem like it'll work out for everyone, and some models might flop IMO.
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and they change them often. The prices going that high is simply the high-end brands taking what they can from these customers - they’ll pretty much always pay, especially those who are loyal to brands like SC. Brands with higher reliance on entry/mid-level in their market mix are hurting and dropping prices across the board to stay in the game.
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only...
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only model, adding complexity and network connection requirements that didn't improve the actual user experience. Now, the more I hear about bullshit AI integration in future versions of Windows, the more I consider abandoning Microsoft altogether and taking the leap to a Linux-powered computer that does what I need and no more.
I bring this up because I think there's a possible parallel to the mountain bike industry. We're seeing the major companies push features that feel frivolous or downright unwanted, because actual major developments in geometry, linkage design, frame construction, etc. have seemingly plateaued (probably not forever, but at least for right now) and the brands are chasing novelty and an appearance of prestige. But it may just push more users away from the 'core' brands/companies toward smaller or alternative brands that offer the features or user experience that the major companies have abandoned. Unfortunately, just like switching away from Windows or MacOS, this will probably require a little bit more technical knowledge, and some people will probably just grumble and accept the compromises they're being offered in the front window of the local shop. But it seems like there could be enough of a user base interested in things like mechanical drivetrains, easily serviceable linkages, etc to sustain an economy of smaller, more focused companies that don't push nonsensical designs for the sake of novelty.
OK, state-of-the-industry speculation over. Back to tech rumors. Re: the new Santa Cruz--WTF is an integrated headtube badge?
agree with all of this but I'm excited for the market share this is going to gift to small-medium brands that aren't following the all-wireless-or-you're-too-poor-for-our-bikes trend. tempted to buy some AXS batteries in bulk and charge a 500% markup at trailhead parking lots for riders that forgot to charge theirs
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
Unpopular opinion but transmission is a clear/undeniable benefit over any existing cable stuff
How so precisely?
The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )
Weak clutch
Overpriced
Overweight
The main feature ( you can stand on it ) it’s completely useless as you never get side impacts but always front to back
So far almost everyone I know that own it, and I work in a bike shop, has had trouble with it, either too much chain slap and had to run a chain tensioner pulley like the old dh bikes, or deralieur just broke down randomly, no signal, deralieur dead.
While the warranty is great, still, it’s a lemon to me
Compared to my normal cable eagle with xt cassette
My combo is way cheaper and it’s lighter, it shifts under power, it’s way quicker, I basically never have to tune the cable tension or anything for months and months
All transmission above have been installed by a proper mechanic with all the seam mechanics tips for transmission.
agree with all of this but I'm excited for the market share this is going to gift to small-medium brands that aren't following the all-wireless-or-you're-too-poor-for-our-bikes trend...
agree with all of this but I'm excited for the market share this is going to gift to small-medium brands that aren't following the all-wireless-or-you're-too-poor-for-our-bikes trend. tempted to buy some AXS batteries in bulk and charge a 500% markup at trailhead parking lots for riders that forgot to charge theirs
Hopefully so, because that is genuinely a great result! Except that the reach and stack will be 3mm different than their last medium bike and the antisquat/antirise relationship won’t meat their ideal either.
Oh and fyi we all have spares batteries and actually remember to charge them anyway… we’ve had mobile (cell) phones for 30 years now so we’ve learnt about recharging them.
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and...
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and they change them often. The prices going that high is simply the high-end brands taking what they can from these customers - they’ll pretty much always pay, especially those who are loyal to brands like SC. Brands with higher reliance on entry/mid-level in their market mix are hurting and dropping prices across the board to stay in the game.
Do we know that the high end of the market is still healthy? Brands are still discounting high end builds quite aggressively.
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and...
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and they change them often. The prices going that high is simply the high-end brands taking what they can from these customers - they’ll pretty much always pay, especially those who are loyal to brands like SC. Brands with higher reliance on entry/mid-level in their market mix are hurting and dropping prices across the board to stay in the game.
Do we know that the high end of the market is still healthy? Brands are still discounting high end builds quite aggressively.
It is 100% not "healthy" plus the X0, XX, XTR builds make up such a small percentage of any given brands sales that its more or less irrelevant. The whole market is hosed right now, these bikes were committed to 12+ months ago with their factories and they're not gonna sell very many of them regardless of cable routing options.
Has anyone seen any info or rumors regarding the release dates of next gen of wireless dropper posts? I've seen the patents for the new AXS...
Has anyone seen any info or rumors regarding the release dates of next gen of wireless dropper posts? I've seen the patents for the new AXS Reverb. Also there was the leaked Fox Transfer Neo as well as the BikeYoke showing off something at Eurobike. I haven't seen any solid release dates anywhere though.
I heard the Fox one was supposed to be later this summer. Reverb was spotted prototype testing just this spring, so that will be at least 1-2 years.
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only...
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only model, adding complexity and network connection requirements that didn't improve the actual user experience. Now, the more I hear about bullshit AI integration in future versions of Windows, the more I consider abandoning Microsoft altogether and taking the leap to a Linux-powered computer that does what I need and no more.
I bring this up because I think there's a possible parallel to the mountain bike industry. We're seeing the major companies push features that feel frivolous or downright unwanted, because actual major developments in geometry, linkage design, frame construction, etc. have seemingly plateaued (probably not forever, but at least for right now) and the brands are chasing novelty and an appearance of prestige. But it may just push more users away from the 'core' brands/companies toward smaller or alternative brands that offer the features or user experience that the major companies have abandoned. Unfortunately, just like switching away from Windows or MacOS, this will probably require a little bit more technical knowledge, and some people will probably just grumble and accept the compromises they're being offered in the front window of the local shop. But it seems like there could be enough of a user base interested in things like mechanical drivetrains, easily serviceable linkages, etc to sustain an economy of smaller, more focused companies that don't push nonsensical designs for the sake of novelty.
OK, state-of-the-industry speculation over. Back to tech rumors. Re: the new Santa Cruz--WTF is an integrated headtube badge?
So this is where I probably sound like a hypocrite, but the open source software world is something I've been fascinated by and slowly changing a lot of my computing to free/open source alternatives over the last few years for the same reason. Linux has been my main OS for 2 or 3 years and its awesome, but a little strange that the bar for an enjoyable experience is "being able to use my computer without microsoft constantly trying to f**k with it and extort money from me". It's not perfect, but I feel a little happier knowing I can put energy in to managing my work and data without worrying that it will be taken away or held to ransom by a huge software company
When it comes to bikes - I'm on the fence with wireless, I can see a lot of benefits to it (especially for things like suspension lockouts) and I hope that people aren't just scared of it because they don't like electronics. And while the internet is full of haters, they need to understand there is a huge number of people out there who buy mountain bikes and have very different priorities and experiences (oh and money) and might really appreciate what electronics can bring to the table. I made a bad venn diagram (with free & open source software...) to illustrate what I mean too!
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up...
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up the cost on new products that we didn't really need in the first place so then they have to hopefully force the consumer into having to buy these new products. For example wireless only frames.
Just keep producing the same drivetrains that worked and consumers will by replacement cassettes, mechs and chains as needed the tooling is already paid for and the profit margins are higher the longer they are still available to sell replacment parts.
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only...
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only model, adding complexity and network connection requirements that didn't improve the actual user experience. Now, the more I hear about bullshit AI integration in future versions of Windows, the more I consider abandoning Microsoft altogether and taking the leap to a Linux-powered computer that does what I need and no more.
I bring this up because I think there's a possible parallel to the mountain bike industry. We're seeing the major companies push features that feel frivolous or downright unwanted, because actual major developments in geometry, linkage design, frame construction, etc. have seemingly plateaued (probably not forever, but at least for right now) and the brands are chasing novelty and an appearance of prestige. But it may just push more users away from the 'core' brands/companies toward smaller or alternative brands that offer the features or user experience that the major companies have abandoned. Unfortunately, just like switching away from Windows or MacOS, this will probably require a little bit more technical knowledge, and some people will probably just grumble and accept the compromises they're being offered in the front window of the local shop. But it seems like there could be enough of a user base interested in things like mechanical drivetrains, easily serviceable linkages, etc to sustain an economy of smaller, more focused companies that don't push nonsensical designs for the sake of novelty.
OK, state-of-the-industry speculation over. Back to tech rumors. Re: the new Santa Cruz--WTF is an integrated headtube badge?
So this is where I probably sound like a hypocrite, but the open source software world is something I've been fascinated by and slowly changing a...
So this is where I probably sound like a hypocrite, but the open source software world is something I've been fascinated by and slowly changing a lot of my computing to free/open source alternatives over the last few years for the same reason. Linux has been my main OS for 2 or 3 years and its awesome, but a little strange that the bar for an enjoyable experience is "being able to use my computer without microsoft constantly trying to f**k with it and extort money from me". It's not perfect, but I feel a little happier knowing I can put energy in to managing my work and data without worrying that it will be taken away or held to ransom by a huge software company
When it comes to bikes - I'm on the fence with wireless, I can see a lot of benefits to it (especially for things like suspension lockouts) and I hope that people aren't just scared of it because they don't like electronics. And while the internet is full of haters, they need to understand there is a huge number of people out there who buy mountain bikes and have very different priorities and experiences (oh and money) and might really appreciate what electronics can bring to the table. I made a bad venn diagram (with free & open source software...) to illustrate what I mean too!
talking about electronic and suspension, i feel it's a waste of money for most, correct me if i'm wrong, but spending that much on a flight attendant suspension system is pretty dumb in my book, when, with the same money i can get a custom tuned coil shock and same, a fork with sized bushing and assembled properly, maybe even tuned.
( i'm sure you've seen plenty of dry/ caked with grease/ tight bushings RS forks ).
so having a fancy electronic lock out on a "stock" fork and shock to me will always be worse than spending the same and having better quality and re-worked suspensions.
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something...
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
How so precisely?The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )Weak clutchOverpricedOverweightThe main feature ( you can stand on it )...
How so precisely?
The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )
Weak clutch
Overpriced
Overweight
The main feature ( you can stand on it ) it’s completely useless as you never get side impacts but always front to back
So far almost everyone I know that own it, and I work in a bike shop, has had trouble with it, either too much chain slap and had to run a chain tensioner pulley like the old dh bikes, or deralieur just broke down randomly, no signal, deralieur dead.
While the warranty is great, still, it’s a lemon to me
Compared to my normal cable eagle with xt cassette
My combo is way cheaper and it’s lighter, it shifts under power, it’s way quicker, I basically never have to tune the cable tension or anything for months and months
All transmission above have been installed by a proper mechanic with all the seam mechanics tips for transmission.
Anecdote, but a friend of mine has had 3 warranty replacements on an XO derailleur so far.
1 for the clutch failing, 2 for the software being bricked. He bought the groupset as soon as it was available to him and has had it since January IIRC.
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from...
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from wood thank you very much.
In hindsight I should’ve started that comment, with “screw wireless”!I stand by the rest of it.Keep it up lads the hate for change is at an...
In hindsight I should’ve started that comment, with “screw wireless”!
I stand by the rest of it. Keep it up lads the hate for change is at an all time level of hilarity.
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you up.
I would say most of the folks here wouldn't be mad if the bikes were designed with mechanical routing holes in the frame. If you're a brand loyalist who prefers mechanical groupos you'd for sure have a sour taste in your mouth too.
I wonder what the weight penalty is for adding internal routing to a carbon frame. A lot of the penetrations aren't in low stress areas, so there must be some more material to account for it.
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you...
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you up.
I would say most of the folks here wouldn't be mad if the bikes were designed with mechanical routing holes in the frame. If you're a brand loyalist who prefers mechanical groupos you'd for sure have a sour taste in your mouth too.
Wow cables and frame ports are nearly as touchy a subject as religion and politics now huh.
You’re either a believer or you’re not. Just make sure you judge and condemn everyone else right
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you...
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you up.
I would say most of the folks here wouldn't be mad if the bikes were designed with mechanical routing holes in the frame. If you're a brand loyalist who prefers mechanical groupos you'd for sure have a sour taste in your mouth too.
I guess the holes in the frame do add some weight and cost to the frame, but since they still need to do it for the rear brake and dropper post, its not a huge difference to also have the routing for a gear cable. Maybe there could be some guides on the outside of the frame to allow external routing of the cables?
Ha! I seem to remember getting a Trestle/Colorado Freeride Festival branded sweatband in my race bag years ago - might have to dig it up!
RIP Colorado Freeride Festival. You were too good for this world.
Not really a tech rumor, but other site has the AL Dirtlove release out. Nothing special on that frame, adjustable dropouts, drilling for a gyro, the built in crankstop is interesting. $1400 for the top spec is really good though.
Marin's Alcatraz has a similar spec to the Core 1 for $500 more. Big S has the same spec as the Core 2 for $700 more. I bet they're gonna sell a good amount of these.
I think it's officially being released tomorrow, but it looks like Knolly posted a video for the new Delirium early. I've heard it's going to be a pretty limited release, though (only 100 frames).
The whole wireless only thing is really representative of what bothers me about the bike industry. Changing things for the sole reason to sell us something more expensive. Why would they not put a small hole in the head tube and in the chain stay, can fit little plugs in it if they arent needed.
Its different than say 1x drivetrains or dropper posts where there is a clear and undeniable benefit. What is better about a wireless drivetrain vs a properly tuned cable one? We get rid of a $3 cable and cable housing and add a battery?
what irks me with this is the frames are getting simpler and cheaper to produce for them without laminating tubes into the frame but prices will rise nonetheless. the industry is gonna try to milk us until MTB is back to being a niche sport.
The lack of cable ports on future carbon frames is bumming me out. Wireless-only sucks for people who like to optimize for on-trail performance. I prefer carbon frames due to better alignment, fatigue life, and saving 2 lbs without decrease in durability, so going to alum isn't the right compromise. Our cohort has always prioritized spending $$ on top tier suspension, brakes, and wheels, while almost universally selecting "good enough" drivetrain at the XT/GX level.
I realize that showroom shopping squids prefer fancy looking gadgets to performance. This sucks and bums me out.
I'm counting on the mid-sized brands to eat the lunch of the big dogs on this one by not forcing us to spend an extra $800 on wireless. That's a set of great brakes right there. Brakes actually matter.
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up the cost on new products that we didn't really need in the first place so then they have to hopefully force the consumer into having to buy these new products. For example wireless only frames.
Just keep producing the same drivetrains that worked and consumers will by replacement cassettes, mechs and chains as needed the tooling is already paid for and the profit margins are higher the longer they are still available to sell replacment parts.
A few years back I switched to an open-source alternative to the Microsoft Office suite of products (Excel, Word, etc). Microsoft was moving to a subscription-only model, adding complexity and network connection requirements that didn't improve the actual user experience. Now, the more I hear about bullshit AI integration in future versions of Windows, the more I consider abandoning Microsoft altogether and taking the leap to a Linux-powered computer that does what I need and no more.
I bring this up because I think there's a possible parallel to the mountain bike industry. We're seeing the major companies push features that feel frivolous or downright unwanted, because actual major developments in geometry, linkage design, frame construction, etc. have seemingly plateaued (probably not forever, but at least for right now) and the brands are chasing novelty and an appearance of prestige. But it may just push more users away from the 'core' brands/companies toward smaller or alternative brands that offer the features or user experience that the major companies have abandoned. Unfortunately, just like switching away from Windows or MacOS, this will probably require a little bit more technical knowledge, and some people will probably just grumble and accept the compromises they're being offered in the front window of the local shop. But it seems like there could be enough of a user base interested in things like mechanical drivetrains, easily serviceable linkages, etc to sustain an economy of smaller, more focused companies that don't push nonsensical designs for the sake of novelty.
OK, state-of-the-industry speculation over. Back to tech rumors. Re: the new Santa Cruz--WTF is an integrated headtube badge?
The wireless only stuff seems pretty dumb but then I don’t really care, my next unassisted bike will have a gearbox. Any rumors on new entries in that market?
I’ve got money for the right gearbox bike and the right lightweight enduro emtb but not sure when either will come along.
In hindsight I should’ve started that comment, with “screw wireless”!
I stand by the rest of it.
Keep it up lads the hate for change is at an all time level of hilarity.
Seems like horrible timing for the first gen of ultra premium, wireless only pedal bikes to be released. The industry has been practically giving away bikes for the last year, and now they're gonna try and upsell with more expensive builds? Doesn't seem like it'll work out for everyone, and some models might flop IMO.
Unpopular opinion but transmission is a clear/undeniable benefit over any existing cable stuff
Another way to look at it: the very high end of the market is still healthy. People who can afford these bikes still want them, and they change them often. The prices going that high is simply the high-end brands taking what they can from these customers - they’ll pretty much always pay, especially those who are loyal to brands like SC. Brands with higher reliance on entry/mid-level in their market mix are hurting and dropping prices across the board to stay in the game.
agree with all of this but I'm excited for the market share this is going to gift to small-medium brands that aren't following the all-wireless-or-you're-too-poor-for-our-bikes trend. tempted to buy some AXS batteries in bulk and charge a 500% markup at trailhead parking lots for riders that forgot to charge theirs
How so precisely?
The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )
Weak clutch
Overpriced
Overweight
The main feature ( you can stand on it ) it’s completely useless as you never get side impacts but always front to back
So far almost everyone I know that own it, and I work in a bike shop, has had trouble with it, either too much chain slap and had to run a chain tensioner pulley like the old dh bikes, or deralieur just broke down randomly, no signal, deralieur dead.
While the warranty is great, still, it’s a lemon to me
Compared to my normal cable eagle with xt cassette
My combo is way cheaper and it’s lighter, it shifts under power, it’s way quicker, I basically never have to tune the cable tension or anything for months and months
All transmission above have been installed by a proper mechanic with all the seam mechanics tips for transmission.
I consider this a win, a statement from the Propain man himself on the other site regarding cable routing
Hopefully so, because that is genuinely a great result!
Except that the reach and stack will be 3mm different than their last medium bike and the antisquat/antirise relationship won’t meat their ideal either.
Oh and fyi we all have spares batteries and actually remember to charge them anyway… we’ve had mobile (cell) phones for 30 years now so we’ve learnt about recharging them.
Do we know that the high end of the market is still healthy? Brands are still discounting high end builds quite aggressively.
It is 100% not "healthy" plus the X0, XX, XTR builds make up such a small percentage of any given brands sales that its more or less irrelevant. The whole market is hosed right now, these bikes were committed to 12+ months ago with their factories and they're not gonna sell very many of them regardless of cable routing options.
I heard the Fox one was supposed to be later this summer. Reverb was spotted prototype testing just this spring, so that will be at least 1-2 years.
So this is where I probably sound like a hypocrite, but the open source software world is something I've been fascinated by and slowly changing a lot of my computing to free/open source alternatives over the last few years for the same reason. Linux has been my main OS for 2 or 3 years and its awesome, but a little strange that the bar for an enjoyable experience is "being able to use my computer without microsoft constantly trying to f**k with it and extort money from me". It's not perfect, but I feel a little happier knowing I can put energy in to managing my work and data without worrying that it will be taken away or held to ransom by a huge software company
When it comes to bikes - I'm on the fence with wireless, I can see a lot of benefits to it (especially for things like suspension lockouts) and I hope that people aren't just scared of it because they don't like electronics. And while the internet is full of haters, they need to understand there is a huge number of people out there who buy mountain bikes and have very different priorities and experiences (oh and money) and might really appreciate what electronics can bring to the table. I made a bad venn diagram (with free & open source software...) to illustrate what I mean too!
How much do you know about capitalism?
talking about electronic and suspension, i feel it's a waste of money for most, correct me if i'm wrong, but spending that much on a flight attendant suspension system is pretty dumb in my book, when, with the same money i can get a custom tuned coil shock and same, a fork with sized bushing and assembled properly, maybe even tuned.
( i'm sure you've seen plenty of dry/ caked with grease/ tight bushings RS forks ).
so having a fancy electronic lock out on a "stock" fork and shock to me will always be worse than spending the same and having better quality and re-worked suspensions.
Anecdote, but a friend of mine has had 3 warranty replacements on an XO derailleur so far.
1 for the clutch failing, 2 for the software being bricked. He bought the groupset as soon as it was available to him and has had it since January IIRC.
Hate for forced change you mean. It's alright that you can have a stupid opinion every once in a while, just don't let it eat you up.
I would say most of the folks here wouldn't be mad if the bikes were designed with mechanical routing holes in the frame. If you're a brand loyalist who prefers mechanical groupos you'd for sure have a sour taste in your mouth too.
I wonder what the weight penalty is for adding internal routing to a carbon frame. A lot of the penetrations aren't in low stress areas, so there must be some more material to account for it.
Wow cables and frame ports are nearly as touchy a subject as religion and politics now huh.
You’re either a believer or you’re not. Just make sure you judge and condemn everyone else right
I am just gonna take a guess that you work at SRAM lol.
I would never insult someone on their politics or religion. 😉
I guess the holes in the frame do add some weight and cost to the frame, but since they still need to do it for the rear brake and dropper post, its not a huge difference to also have the routing for a gear cable. Maybe there could be some guides on the outside of the frame to allow external routing of the cables?