MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Ceecee wrote:

Snfoilhat: dimensions, combined wheel and tire weight, and sentiment

Snfoilhat wrote:

I can work with that. I just need to borrow someone’s Transition Scout size small in my favorite color and have an adventure, camp beside a...

I can work with that. I just need to borrow someone’s Transition Scout size small in my favorite color and have an adventure, camp beside a waterfall, ride in a herd of mountain ponies, overwrite some new positive associations in my bike brain. Easy! :D

ARonBurgundy wrote:

Maybe a Trek Ticket S? 

f.i.t.nj wrote:

So interested in the sidekick! Waiting to build a new DH rear wheel until the effectiveness and availability to buy one is known.  

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

seanfisseli wrote:

Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this...

Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this psa thing in the genie. X2 will be crammed full of tokens which will negate the volume but yeah you’ll have a better damper (might as well be a float x.) But to allow for high volume (no tokens) with less bottom out you’ll have to crank up the damping. Now you’ve got a harsher overall ride than the genie as the damper is working a lot more.

this is just theory and I am still working on my comprehension of stroke length, amount of travel, and the resulting damping needed. I just think this design lessens the reliance on damping to control stroke, which normally would result in blowing through travel and bottoming out constantly (as they found early in testing) but with the PSA they don’t have to worry about blowing through travel as the bottom 30% of travel gets super progressive and not harsh…

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

Onawalk wrote:

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy

Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....

Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)

Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....

simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it.  All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway

Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)

None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person

The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability. 

How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?

 

https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…

seanfisseli wrote:

My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of...

My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of folks either a) don’t mind the feeling of bottoming out constantly or b) don’t mind riding a harsh over-sprung shock.

I’ll tell you that the people involved in making this bike are looking to make bikes that feel good to ride and perform well. The problem with solving the problem on the damper end is that different rider spring rates require different tunes, and that just doesn’t work for the majority of riders. Sure you could look at HBO but there is no way that feels as smooth as a pneumatic solution, and that requires another circuit I assume? Adjusting the psa is just volume reducer. Also, I’m assuming that if you ride heavy on the PSA it’s probably not as detrimental as riding heavy on an HBO where cycling that fluid creates heat and other byproducts, but I’m getting over my skis here now.
 

im defending the concept here because looking out into the future I am very excited by the possibilities of psa tech in shocks and forks. It’s so much more intuitive and simple compared to other multi-stage air springs. I also like radical thinking and elegant solutions, and compared to a lot of Suspension Contraptions I have seen, this feels most like where I personally would want the technology on my bike to go.

Dave113 wrote:

I agree. You get the benefits of lower progression which will work well in less demanding scenarios and a relatively simple but likely very effective ramp-up...

I agree. You get the benefits of lower progression which will work well in less demanding scenarios and a relatively simple but likely very effective ramp-up in spring rate that spreads the bottom-out progression over a wider and more controlled region of travel vs simply reducing volume vs tokens. This shock could work very well for a lot of riders, and if not it's a std size so you can use any shock you like, and if you want more progression it's pretty likely Cascade will make a Link for it like they did the Evo. 

SteveClimber wrote:

Yeah idk. I'll ride one when it's not snowing outside, but I think you've all drunk the cool-aid. Spring curves really aren't that important in bikes...

Yeah idk.

I'll ride one when it's not snowing outside, but I think you've all drunk the cool-aid.

Spring curves really aren't that important in bikes (assuming they're not something insane) and the curve shown from Specialized' marketing material is very very similar to the curves you get on bike with a progressive ramp towards the end. 

The most important thing in suspension is damping. An inline 55mm stroke shock on 145mm is just not adequate to produce enough damping force, it doesn't matter how fancy your airspring is. 

earleb wrote:

SpecialEd - we created this new shock blah blah blah Ohlins - Uh we can just provide you with a progressive damper tune to do the...

SpecialEd - we created this new shock blah blah blah

Ohlins - Uh we can just provide you with a progressive damper tune to do the same thing.

SpecialEd - We just won't mention that.

chriskief wrote:

Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.    

Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.

 

 

dknapton wrote:

I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...

I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes. 

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

Onawalk wrote:

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy

Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....

Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)

Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....

simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it.  All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway

Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)

None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person

The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability. 

How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?

 

https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…

Dave113 wrote:

145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a...

145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem. 

harrison wrote:

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...

how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons - 

The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.) 

I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers. 

granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point. 

 

Onawalk wrote:

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy

Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....

Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)

Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....

simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it.  All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway

Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)

None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person

The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability. 

How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?

 

https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".

The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable. 

Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.

Snfoilhat wrote:

Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may...

Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.

 

I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.

Onawalk wrote:

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy

Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....

Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)

Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....

simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it.  All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway

Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)

None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person

The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability. 

How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?

 

https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".

The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable. 

Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.

Onawalk wrote:

Youre not pigeonholed on anything! nothing, nada,  people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...

Youre not pigeonholed on anything!

nothing, nada, 

people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant! 

A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?

Im disappointed in all of us here

Dave113 wrote:

145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a...

145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem. 

SteveClimber wrote:

Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought...

Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought it was smaller. Its pretty much the same as a 170/65 (2.62) which is normal. 

You are right, but the standard tunes companies (other than Ohlins) spec are pretty spring heavy damping light. I don't know of any brands that sell an inline shock with with large amounts of damping when closed. In quite a few sell tunes on their models that are the exact opposite (Ibis in particular)

 

Also to @Onawalk the shock is 100% proprietary, Specialized have the sole patent for it. It's just that they partnered with Fox to make it.

sspomer wrote:

les gets DH pit bits video with some interesting stuff. less electronics, more grinding out metal in 2025!    Video Contents 0:00 - RockShox Fork Rebuilds...

les gets DH pit bits video with some interesting stuff. less electronics, more grinding out metal in 2025! 

 

Video Contents
0:00 - RockShox Fork Rebuilds
1:04 - e13 Sidekick Clutch Hub
2:18 - Removing Frame Material for Flex on Danny Hart's GT
3:39 - Epic Tools - Giant Factory Off-Road
5:50 - Pivot Factory Racing Pits
6:21 - Norco Factory Racing
7:25 - FOX Fork Rebuilds
9:08 - Belt-drive Gearbox Gamux DH Prototype Bike
10:59 - Finn Iles Wants the Win

TEAMROBOT wrote:

The Danny Hart frame mods are so sick. More flex in the rear triangle, but less at the brake mount. Smart man. Also, cool to see...

The Danny Hart frame mods are so sick. More flex in the rear triangle, but less at the brake mount. Smart man. Also, cool to see the data-intensive approach from the MS team regarding the new E.Thirteen hub. Have really been impressed by O.Chain and super curious to hear/see more about the Sidekick hub. It's a good time to be a tech nerd.

Onawalk wrote:

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...

Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy

Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....

Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)

Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....

simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it.  All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway

Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)

None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person

The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability. 

How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?

 

https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".

The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable. 

Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.

Onawalk wrote:

Youre not pigeonholed on anything! nothing, nada,  people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...

Youre not pigeonholed on anything!

nothing, nada, 

people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant! 

A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?

Im disappointed in all of us here

Snfoilhat wrote:

Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may...

Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.

 

I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.

sspomer wrote:

from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed...

from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."

to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?

seanfisseli wrote:

Read the white paper. There is less time bottoming out and less major bottom out events claimed. What’s revolutionary about the shock isn’t how it’s feels...

Read the white paper. There is less time bottoming out and less major bottom out events claimed. What’s revolutionary about the shock isn’t how it’s feels for the 70%, like an Enduro, it’s how for that last 30% it doesn’t feel like a 145mm bike slamming into or riding at bottom out.

 

I think this is one of those developments that we are going to have to ride to understand. 

SteveClimber wrote:

Playing devils advocate here but isnt this problem solved with 1. progressive leverage curves 2. Shock ramp-up via volume spacers 3. HBO damping circuits 4. The...

Playing devils advocate here but isnt this problem solved with 1. progressive leverage curves 2. Shock ramp-up via volume spacers 3. HBO damping circuits 4. The severity of a harsh bottom out is way to exaggerated 

I'm not saying the stumpy is a bad bike, but "solving" bottom outs really isn't that important IMO.

seanfisseli wrote:

My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of...

My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of folks either a) don’t mind the feeling of bottoming out constantly or b) don’t mind riding a harsh over-sprung shock.

I’ll tell you that the people involved in making this bike are looking to make bikes that feel good to ride and perform well. The problem with solving the problem on the damper end is that different rider spring rates require different tunes, and that just doesn’t work for the majority of riders. Sure you could look at HBO but there is no way that feels as smooth as a pneumatic solution, and that requires another circuit I assume? Adjusting the psa is just volume reducer. Also, I’m assuming that if you ride heavy on the PSA it’s probably not as detrimental as riding heavy on an HBO where cycling that fluid creates heat and other byproducts, but I’m getting over my skis here now.
 

im defending the concept here because looking out into the future I am very excited by the possibilities of psa tech in shocks and forks. It’s so much more intuitive and simple compared to other multi-stage air springs. I also like radical thinking and elegant solutions, and compared to a lot of Suspension Contraptions I have seen, this feels most like where I personally would want the technology on my bike to go.

sspomer wrote:

from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed...

from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."

to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?

lickmycrinkle wrote:

I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions...

I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D

I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions :D

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...

Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".

The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable. 

Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.

Onawalk wrote:

Youre not pigeonholed on anything! nothing, nada,  people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...

Youre not pigeonholed on anything!

nothing, nada, 

people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant! 

A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?

Im disappointed in all of us here

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is...

Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.

Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it. 

I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options. 

Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.

Onawalk wrote:

Youre not pigeonholed on anything! nothing, nada,  people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...

Youre not pigeonholed on anything!

nothing, nada, 

people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant! 

A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?

Im disappointed in all of us here

noodlenosteeze wrote:

Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is...

Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.

Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it. 

I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options. 

Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.

Onawalk wrote:

$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing. Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for...

$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing.

Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for $1300.  Had 20 responses the first afternoon, could have sold it 20 times over for that price) buy GX for $650, and youve made a decent chunk of change back.

Hell for the extra money, you could get molded carbon holes done by Robertsons carbon, and have a super slick internal cables if you wanted.

its not that hard.

Plus, you know very well, that there are alu ones coming with cable drivetrains, and I'll bet you 6 doughnuts that there will be carbon ones coming as well.....