Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.
None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…
Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it...
Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.
Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.
My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.
Both Fox and Rock Shox offer a lot of different tunes for shocks, not so much for forks.
Rock Shox offers some aftermarket shocks already spec'd to specific frames, but typically you can't buy these installed at the factory for your aftermarket suspension (OEM has the option to choose), it requires a suspension service.
Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it...
Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.
Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.
My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.
I've always loved Cane Creek rear shocks because of the external controls. You don't have to worry about buying the right tune, if you lose weight, swap frames, etc you can get the tune to where your super flat Starling Murmur stays off the bottom, or your super progressive YT Jeffsy will actually use all its travel.
That being said, having a custom tune done correctly rides so incredibly well. My EXT Storia rides like dancing on a cloud. They are $850 new right now, about $200 more than you can get a DHX2 for, and not only rides better but has much better service support from EXT USA. There are so many good options right now for custom tuned or semi-custom tuned shocks, to me it makes little sense to buy a shock aftermarket from the Big Two.
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.
None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…
Good idea, would assume it's hard to scale. The money for Fox/RS is made on the OEM side, consumer side takes up a very small segment, so you'd likely see it in the form of aftermarket upgrades (like the MRP Lift damper already mentioned). It would be really cool to see more options like that come up from non-OEM suppliers.
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.
None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…
The new MRP Lift damper is sold in several different tunes for different weight ranges. Not quite what you are describing but a step in that...
The new MRP Lift damper is sold in several different tunes for different weight ranges. Not quite what you are describing but a step in that direction.
Would be good to see some reviews of this new damper. Hopefully it's a viable option.
There are quite a few user reviews now in this MTBR thread (that links to page three, there are nine more pages of reviews and discussion after).
Simonetti has one for review. We have them out for review at a number of other outlets too.
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean).
It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack.
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal...
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg
anyone know whats that all about?
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use...
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg
anyone know whats that all about?
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
Trek Medona... That what us boys at the shop want it to be named but noooo they just left it as the Madone. Missed opportunity lol good looking bike though.
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring...
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and...
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
I feel there is a system we can make, especially for more casual riders, that will work way good enough but we are probably a ways off of replacing air for competitive use. I still think its insane in 2024 there isn't a flat-proof system for the top guys, but then again I don't know that we've seen a flat derail a good run among the top 20 in DH.
Completely off topic but I hate the Nuetech mousses for moto for the reasons you mentioned. I will only run michelin and get a lot of use out of them, and they are light. I'll never go back to air of any kind.
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?
custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter
Looks short! Did the newsletter say what length it was?
Both Fox and Rock Shox offer a lot of different tunes for shocks, not so much for forks.
Rock Shox offers some aftermarket shocks already spec'd to specific frames, but typically you can't buy these installed at the factory for your aftermarket suspension (OEM has the option to choose), it requires a suspension service.
Couple examples...
Fox 38
Float X2
Vivid Ultimate DH
yeah, sorry, 20mm - so a stubster for sure!
I've always loved Cane Creek rear shocks because of the external controls. You don't have to worry about buying the right tune, if you lose weight, swap frames, etc you can get the tune to where your super flat Starling Murmur stays off the bottom, or your super progressive YT Jeffsy will actually use all its travel.
That being said, having a custom tune done correctly rides so incredibly well. My EXT Storia rides like dancing on a cloud. They are $850 new right now, about $200 more than you can get a DHX2 for, and not only rides better but has much better service support from EXT USA. There are so many good options right now for custom tuned or semi-custom tuned shocks, to me it makes little sense to buy a shock aftermarket from the Big Two.
Good idea, would assume it's hard to scale. The money for Fox/RS is made on the OEM side, consumer side takes up a very small segment, so you'd likely see it in the form of aftermarket upgrades (like the MRP Lift damper already mentioned). It would be really cool to see more options like that come up from non-OEM suppliers.
From the EXT site. It's everywhere.
Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually.
Likely same proto rims Danny has been on.
oh yeah, forgot about those protos.
There are quite a few user reviews now in this MTBR thread (that links to page three, there are nine more pages of reviews and discussion after).
Simonetti has one for review. We have them out for review at a number of other outlets too.
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=fac…
anyone know whats that all about?
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
New Madone road bike in time for the Tour de France. It's would be the 8th gen of the Madone hence the promo picture you see there.
Formula’s CTS system seems like a great solution.
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
my guess is a new road bike, new trek madone was seen a couple weeks ago on world tour teams.
edit: someone was faster
Combining the Madone and Emonda into one bike.Probably to be called Nomade or something equally stupid (Trek road bikes use the same letters)
Trek Adomen. Trek Enomad. Trek Donema. Trek Amonde.
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
Trek Medona... That what us boys at the shop want it to be named but noooo they just left it as the Madone. Missed opportunity lol good looking bike though.
It seams EXT USA already has a page for selling Storia V4, found it through google, can't be accessed through link on their page yet:
https://extusa.bike/products/ext-storia-v4
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
I feel there is a system we can make, especially for more casual riders, that will work way good enough but we are probably a ways off of replacing air for competitive use. I still think its insane in 2024 there isn't a flat-proof system for the top guys, but then again I don't know that we've seen a flat derail a good run among the top 20 in DH.
Completely off topic but I hate the Nuetech mousses for moto for the reasons you mentioned. I will only run michelin and get a lot of use out of them, and they are light. I'll never go back to air of any kind.
it said madone on it, very similar to the current one but slimmer.
Trek Mad One.
Daemon but pronounce it demon
After working in a handful of Trek dealers in my life, I believe it’s called a Trexs Madrone.
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?