MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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18LifeToGo
Posts
44
Joined
3/3/2023
Location
Sacremento, CA US
6/2/2024 1:01pm
    Wonder when the 13speed mtb groupset is released.
 

 

Wonder when the 13speed mtb groupset is released.

SRAM has had webinars on it. The product is being sent to shops. It was supposed to be launched in the fall with the new Specialized UDH Crux. Seems like they have abandoned the typical embargo because it's being shown everywhere. Shimano has DI2 XTR and DI2 1x GRX dropping as well. 

Great time to be a consumer of bikes and components. 

 

13
6/2/2024 11:36pm
jsray wrote:

Ok. Now do gearboxes. 

Thanks for linking that, some really interesting points and math I haven't seen before, for instance:

On A Flat 100km Route (0% Gradient)
Over 100km, the 1.44km/h drop in speed from the Rohloff to the Nuvinci will add 9 minutes and 30 seconds to your cycling time (4.9% slower). To put that into perspective, carrying 30kg (66lb) extra on your touring bike would add 5 minutes to your ride time (2.6% slower) on the same route.

On A Hilly 100km Route (10km up, 10km down x5 @ 2% Gradient)Over 100km, the less efficient Pinion P1.18 adds 4 minutes and 31 seconds to your cycling time (2.1% slower) when compared to the Rohloff. To put that into perspective, carrying 5kg extra on your touring bike would add 5 minutes to your ride time (2.3% slower) on the same route

Puts into perspective why gearboxes haven't taken off for competitive bike disciplines 

6
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
6/3/2024 5:38am
jsray wrote:

Ok. Now do gearboxes. 

Thanks for linking that, some really interesting points and math I haven't seen before, for instance: On A Flat 100km Route (0% Gradient) Over 100km, the...

Thanks for linking that, some really interesting points and math I haven't seen before, for instance:

On A Flat 100km Route (0% Gradient)
Over 100km, the 1.44km/h drop in speed from the Rohloff to the Nuvinci will add 9 minutes and 30 seconds to your cycling time (4.9% slower). To put that into perspective, carrying 30kg (66lb) extra on your touring bike would add 5 minutes to your ride time (2.6% slower) on the same route.

On A Hilly 100km Route (10km up, 10km down x5 @ 2% Gradient)Over 100km, the less efficient Pinion P1.18 adds 4 minutes and 31 seconds to your cycling time (2.1% slower) when compared to the Rohloff. To put that into perspective, carrying 5kg extra on your touring bike would add 5 minutes to your ride time (2.3% slower) on the same route

Puts into perspective why gearboxes haven't taken off for competitive bike disciplines 

I’d rather walk than ride a road bike. 

Gear boxes, or at least the benefits of them, make way more sense to me than a derailleur. The disadvantages in climbing, shifting speed, weight, etc seem negligible. Aside from the grip shift, because that is an absolute no-go. Like putting a thumb throttle on a dirt bike. 
 

5
28
6/3/2024 2:55pm

Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for dampenening? The idea is that you get 1cm or whatever of undamped fork movement. 

On my ride this morning I was thinking, isn't that what those pucks do in the latest Rock Shocks forks? EXT's fork does this on the air spring side- the bottom of the push rod has a 1 inch literal coil spring connecting it to the fork lowers. Why not do this on both sides? Create a half inch or whatever spring that has to bottom before the damping connecting rod is engaged (in reality it would have a dynamic relationship with the damping). 

A few years ago some small brand did this with rear suspension too- the front mount for the rear shock was a tiny swingarm with an elastomer so that your rear suspension compressed this tiny elastomer along with your air shock. 

1
1
FaahkEet
Posts
104
Joined
3/12/2023
Location
Falls Church, VA US
6/3/2024 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2024 3:09pm

The buttercups supposedly offer 4mm of vertical compliance. I put in the new DebonAir+ airspring, so only added the buttercups to one side. Didn't really notice much difference, but I didn't do much of a test plus it was probably around service time that it was replaced too. I remember being shocked at how little oil was left in the lowers. So yeah, not a great back to back test. 

Having proper amounts of oil made a noticeable difference in feel though. 

3
earleb
Posts
351
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
6/3/2024 3:10pm
Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for...

Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for dampenening? The idea is that you get 1cm or whatever of undamped fork movement. 

On my ride this morning I was thinking, isn't that what those pucks do in the latest Rock Shocks forks? EXT's fork does this on the air spring side- the bottom of the push rod has a 1 inch literal coil spring connecting it to the fork lowers. Why not do this on both sides? Create a half inch or whatever spring that has to bottom before the damping connecting rod is engaged (in reality it would have a dynamic relationship with the damping). 

A few years ago some small brand did this with rear suspension too- the front mount for the rear shock was a tiny swingarm with an elastomer so that your rear suspension compressed this tiny elastomer along with your air shock. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ccu0xQCM9dG/?igsh=Y3V4b3AxMjk3NWUw

These guys in Italy have isolated the shock mount with a pu puck pressed into the rocker. I think they have a patent on it.

3
Jakub_G
Posts
352
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
6/4/2024 1:06am
earleb wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ccu0xQCM9dG/?igsh=Y3V4b3AxMjk3NWUw

These guys in Italy have isolated the shock mount with a pu puck pressed into the rocker. I think they have a patent on it.

Few pages ago I was thinking about soft mounted stem, these guys seem to have figured it out https://www.instagram.com/p/C69HwTJogHo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

1
29
Posts
229
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
6/4/2024 1:52am
Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for...

Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for dampenening? The idea is that you get 1cm or whatever of undamped fork movement. 

On my ride this morning I was thinking, isn't that what those pucks do in the latest Rock Shocks forks? EXT's fork does this on the air spring side- the bottom of the push rod has a 1 inch literal coil spring connecting it to the fork lowers. Why not do this on both sides? Create a half inch or whatever spring that has to bottom before the damping connecting rod is engaged (in reality it would have a dynamic relationship with the damping). 

A few years ago some small brand did this with rear suspension too- the front mount for the rear shock was a tiny swingarm with an elastomer so that your rear suspension compressed this tiny elastomer along with your air shock. 

DAMPING

13
Jakub_G
Posts
352
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
6/4/2024 2:12am
Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for...

Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for dampenening? The idea is that you get 1cm or whatever of undamped fork movement. 

On my ride this morning I was thinking, isn't that what those pucks do in the latest Rock Shocks forks? EXT's fork does this on the air spring side- the bottom of the push rod has a 1 inch literal coil spring connecting it to the fork lowers. Why not do this on both sides? Create a half inch or whatever spring that has to bottom before the damping connecting rod is engaged (in reality it would have a dynamic relationship with the damping). 

A few years ago some small brand did this with rear suspension too- the front mount for the rear shock was a tiny swingarm with an elastomer so that your rear suspension compressed this tiny elastomer along with your air shock. 

29 wrote:

DAMPING

Busted 😀

3
boozed
Posts
644
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
6/4/2024 5:55am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2024 7:21pm
Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing...  https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing... 
... Incorporates an elastomer capable of swallowing small bumps even before the shock is activated.
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

It looks interesting but who decided it's "revolutionary"?

Edit: I didn't notice the article date!  The absence of this product on any modern bikes certainly puts the (hypothetical) "revolutionary" debate to bed.

3
6/4/2024 5:58am
Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing...  https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing... 
... Incorporates an elastomer capable of swallowing small bumps even before the shock is activated.
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

boozed wrote:
It looks interesting but who decided it's "revolutionary"? Edit: I didn't notice the article date!  The absence of this product on any modern bikes certainly puts...

It looks interesting but who decided it's "revolutionary"?

Edit: I didn't notice the article date!  The absence of this product on any modern bikes certainly puts the (hypothetical) "revolutionary" debate to bed.

Vibration mounts lol. 

If only bikes had soft flexible tyres instead of rolling on steel tracks.

11
29
Posts
229
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
6/4/2024 6:06am
Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing...  https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

Corratec? Looks pretty much like an automotive suspension linkarm bushing... 
... Incorporates an elastomer capable of swallowing small bumps even before the shock is activated.
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-a-new-revolutionary-suspension-system-by-corratec/

That article is from 10 years ago. 

7
Suns_PSD
Posts
356
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
6/4/2024 8:06am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2024 8:07am
jsray wrote:
I’d rather walk than ride a road bike.  Gear boxes, or at least the benefits of them, make way more sense to me than a derailleur...

I’d rather walk than ride a road bike. 

Gear boxes, or at least the benefits of them, make way more sense to me than a derailleur. The disadvantages in climbing, shifting speed, weight, etc seem negligible. Aside from the grip shift, because that is an absolute no-go. Like putting a thumb throttle on a dirt bike. 
 

The approximately 13 watt loss going to the Pinion is less than I thought it would be. Still, that about the difference from a an Exo to a DD casing, enough to be quite noticeable for a weakling like me.

What I'd genuinely like to see is no drivetrain, and an e-bike that generates juice through pedaling and electronically sends that signal to a rear hub motor in conjunction with the assistance.

As far as my bikes, I'll stick to 11 sp Sram thank you very much.

2
4
Fantaman
Posts
68
Joined
4/24/2013
Location
NL
6/4/2024 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2024 12:01pm

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

17
6/4/2024 12:09pm
Fantaman wrote:
First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

Was gonna ask if that's just a GX der with a custom short pulley arm, though probably not. I'm sure it'll work just fine. 

1
bnsleit
Posts
116
Joined
9/27/2021
Location
Missoula, MT US
6/4/2024 12:43pm
Fantaman wrote:
First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

Anyone know what brake caliper that is in the background? Looks pretty awesome, like cybertruck design vibes except not super douchey

10
Shinook
Posts
138
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Asheville, NC US
6/4/2024 12:55pm
Fantaman wrote:
First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

bnsleit wrote:

Anyone know what brake caliper that is in the background? Looks pretty awesome, like cybertruck design vibes except not super douchey

612 brakes 

10
6/4/2024 2:07pm
Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for...

Remember a few pages back (eternity ago, probably in a previous Creation or Big Bang) someone linked to a patent that has a floating bypass for dampenening? The idea is that you get 1cm or whatever of undamped fork movement. 

On my ride this morning I was thinking, isn't that what those pucks do in the latest Rock Shocks forks? EXT's fork does this on the air spring side- the bottom of the push rod has a 1 inch literal coil spring connecting it to the fork lowers. Why not do this on both sides? Create a half inch or whatever spring that has to bottom before the damping connecting rod is engaged (in reality it would have a dynamic relationship with the damping). 

A few years ago some small brand did this with rear suspension too- the front mount for the rear shock was a tiny swingarm with an elastomer so that your rear suspension compressed this tiny elastomer along with your air shock. 

Yes it's a similar idea.  The big difference is it being part of a fluid circuit instead of a spring, it's tunable and doesn't store energy.  I believe one picture even showed it with an external adjustment.  I'm really curious to see what Bilstein does with this. 

1
Sesame Seed
Posts
215
Joined
6/25/2014
Location
Farmington, CT US
6/4/2024 4:30pm
Yes it's a similar idea.  The big difference is it being part of a fluid circuit instead of a spring, it's tunable and doesn't store energy. ...

Yes it's a similar idea.  The big difference is it being part of a fluid circuit instead of a spring, it's tunable and doesn't store energy.  I believe one picture even showed it with an external adjustment.  I'm really curious to see what Bilstein does with this. 

Speaking of being curious...

am curious if Hyundai Motors having an electric motor be able to have a functioning gearbox style of power delivery is something able to be replicated through a set of bicycle cranks.  Hyundai is one of the largest companies in Merchant vessels, which some of today's newest e-bike motors share affiliation within electrified propulsion in that industry.

First have to assume there's no space to have enough motor mass be able to be leveraged against when changing 'gears'.  Maybe someone from Gilligan's Island can chime in... 

1
3
lloyd506
Posts
249
Joined
7/10/2016
Location
CA
6/4/2024 5:48pm
Fantaman wrote:
First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

That brake looks like it’s from the same designers of the cyber truck. 

7
4
6/4/2024 9:01pm
Speaking of being curious... am curious if Hyundai Motors having an electric motor be able to have a functioning gearbox style of power delivery is...

Speaking of being curious...

am curious if Hyundai Motors having an electric motor be able to have a functioning gearbox style of power delivery is something able to be replicated through a set of bicycle cranks.  Hyundai is one of the largest companies in Merchant vessels, which some of today's newest e-bike motors share affiliation within electrified propulsion in that industry.

First have to assume there's no space to have enough motor mass be able to be leveraged against when changing 'gears'.  Maybe someone from Gilligan's Island can chime in... 

You’re referring to the ioniq 5 N which simulates a combustion engine and gearbox with a torque curve etc. 

you certainly could do that with a bike, but it doesn’t make sense unless you want to simulate a motor bike or something. Otherwise you’d just be simulating a human legs torque curve which I don’t think would be desirable. 
 

 

1
6/5/2024 5:17am

German based Sour Bicycles entered the full squish market with two models at once:

 

MTB – Sour Bicycles


10
6/5/2024 6:14am
Fantaman wrote:
First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

First 7 speed DH setup with SRAM Transmission on the new YT Tues MK4.

That is the bike from Timo Pries and he builds a lot of cool stuff by himself he even has a Shock bleeding maschine build into his van.

so i think he has build the GX Transmission by himself.

4
dolface
Posts
1656
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
6/5/2024 6:14am
Sven_Claas wrote:
German based Sour Bicycles entered the full squish market with two models at once:   MTB – Sour Bicycles

German based Sour Bicycles entered the full squish market with two models at once:

 

MTB – Sour Bicycles


Details:
Horst link, 140-160mm Fork. 136/148mm Rear Travel. Three-Position Flip Chip

3.499,00 € incl. VAT, 2 stock colors, 180,00 € gets you a custom color (they have some really cool ones, including raw)

By the numbers:

Headtube: EC44/ZS56 tapered headtube
Bottom bracket: 73mm BSA bottom bracket
Axle: 12mm x 148mm thru axle (Syntace X-12)
Seat post: 31.6mm
Brake standard: PM180 Direct. More info here.
Fork travel: 140-160mm
Wheel size: M/L/XL 29″
Tire clearance: up to 2,5″
Tubing: Custom drawn, multiple butted, partly heat treated SOUR 4130 CrMo (we love steel)

A Sour Cowboy Cookie frameset weighs 3.48 kg with all it’s small parts and suspension pivots, bearings, and bolts installed. This weight is excluding powdercoat which will add between 50g and 200g depending on your color choice.

image-20240605060643-1

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1
Shinook
Posts
138
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Asheville, NC US
6/5/2024 7:55am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2024 7:56am
lloyd506 wrote:

That brake looks like it’s from the same designers of the cyber truck. 

I haven't actually tried the 612 brakes, I was very close but ultimately decided I there just wasn't enough info out there. I listened to some podcasts and interviews with the founder/owner of 612, I got the feeling they are basically  a re-sculpted Maxima. He aimed for the same leverage, piston sizes, and mc sizes as the Maxima and ran with that on the 612s. They are obviously aesthetically very different and I'm sure they are functionally a bit different, but I gather not by much. I could be wrong. 

You can select hose types/material, they use Hope pads, mineral oil based fluids, etc, all fairly standard for boutique brakes. You also don't have to deal with Trickstuff support, which I've heard mixed things on for US based customers. I don't mind the aesthetic but there just wasn't enough info on them for me to throw down the $$ to try. 

These and the Beringer Br4ves are basically the only brakes still rattling around in my head as interesting potentials beyond what I've tried so far.

8
29
Posts
229
Joined
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Location
AT
6/5/2024 3:38pm


 

 

tempo ebike. kind of a weird combination. 

14
ShapeThings
Posts
115
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
6/5/2024 6:27pm
29 wrote:
    tempo ebike. kind of a weird combination. 


 

 

tempo ebike. kind of a weird combination. 

If they bump the travel 10mm, could see it going up against something like a Norco Fluid VLT. 

Biggest thing is that they ditched the headset cable routing as seen on the regular Tempo. 

9
6/5/2024 8:23pm
29 wrote:
    tempo ebike. kind of a weird combination. 


 

 

tempo ebike. kind of a weird combination. 

I don’t really plan on owning an e-bike soon.  But if I did it’d be something in this category.  Adventure rides in places that may not suit my pedal enduro bike and a cheap 2nd wheel set away from a fun commuter bike.  I get for most people the e-bike is for smashing their normal trails in way less time (or more runs).  But it’s not really what I would want one for.

2
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