MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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5/26/2024 1:48am
Primoz wrote:
Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago?  Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible...

Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago? 

Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible to upgrade the 3 to it with just a few parts (like the spring update a few years ago) instead of buying a whole new damper. That would be ideal. 

It's RockShox so you will 100% be buying a whole new damper that's only slightly less hot garbage than the current POS.

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26
mrks
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5/26/2024 10:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/26/2024 10:47pm


 

Flight Attendant Zeb and Vivid Air this weekend in Leogang

 

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1
Fred_Pop
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5/27/2024 2:56am
haen wrote:

How are brands so far off on what is needed for compression and rebound damping with all the development time and money behind these products?

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers'  When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was...

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers' 
When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was All the way open, Now on certain forks Im getting close near full closed.

For reference I have about 3 clicks from open on my 3.1 damper. so i can see how the slower guys may ask for less compression.

2supple wrote:
I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer...

I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer lighter compression as well.  

Question still stands - how is it that every two years there are updated compression tunes. This applies to RS and the latest Fox Grip X2. Why can't they get it right the first time. 

Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change. Most brands don't test the limits and thus are just winging it. It's ridiculous. 

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19
5/27/2024 5:08am
Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers'  When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was...

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers' 
When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was All the way open, Now on certain forks Im getting close near full closed.

For reference I have about 3 clicks from open on my 3.1 damper. so i can see how the slower guys may ask for less compression.

2supple wrote:
I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer...

I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer lighter compression as well.  

Question still stands - how is it that every two years there are updated compression tunes. This applies to RS and the latest Fox Grip X2. Why can't they get it right the first time. 

Fred_Pop wrote:
Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change...

Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change. Most brands don't test the limits and thus are just winging it. It's ridiculous. 

I remember Ben cathro talked about how a long time ago orange made him a custom dh bike based on his height that had similar numbers to what he rides now and he didn’t get along with it.  It was a massive change from what he was used to and he struggled with it.  Ultimately going back to riding a stock or near stock bike.

so pros, consumers, and bike designers alike seem to benefit from the slight geo changes every few years but a huge change just doesn’t work for most people.  Especially true if they are on the faster side or hitting big features and a few crashes learning a big change is a big deal.

10
lickmycrinkle
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5/27/2024 10:45am
Primoz wrote:
Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago?  Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible...

Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago? 

Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible to upgrade the 3 to it with just a few parts (like the spring update a few years ago) instead of buying a whole new damper. That would be ideal. 

It's RockShox so you will 100% be buying a whole new damper that's only slightly less hot garbage than the current POS.

I bet you think kashima makes a difference too?

14
1
2supple
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5/27/2024 11:39am
Primoz wrote:
Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago?  Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible...

Isn't the Devinci DH proto just the bike Dak rode a few years ago? 

Anywho, the Charger 3.1 update, I kinda hope it will be possible to upgrade the 3 to it with just a few parts (like the spring update a few years ago) instead of buying a whole new damper. That would be ideal. 

It's RockShox so you will 100% be buying a whole new damper that's only slightly less hot garbage than the current POS.

I bet you think kashima makes a difference too?

It doesn’t? 

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1
cprnc
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5/27/2024 12:40pm

Have any of you guys heard of a potential light eMTB from Rocky Mountain?

1
TannerVal
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Hampton, NH US
5/27/2024 8:02pm

 


 

Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar things for moto but they sit inboard on the throttle side to reduce chafing from twisting the grip. Not really sure what these achieve? 
 

My theories are that he either has a hard time not rolling off the end of his bars and this is more of an indicator that lets him know where the edge is, or he’s fighting some kind of injury and this is a kind of hack to make riding easier? Totally clueless and wondering if anyone’s got a better idea.

5
Primoz
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5/27/2024 9:28pm
Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers'  When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was...

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers' 
When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was All the way open, Now on certain forks Im getting close near full closed.

For reference I have about 3 clicks from open on my 3.1 damper. so i can see how the slower guys may ask for less compression.

2supple wrote:
I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer...

I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer lighter compression as well.  

Question still stands - how is it that every two years there are updated compression tunes. This applies to RS and the latest Fox Grip X2. Why can't they get it right the first time. 

Fred_Pop wrote:
Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change...

Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change. Most brands don't test the limits and thus are just winging it. It's ridiculous. 

What is the correct damping design? What is the correct geometry? 

Like @bulletbass man mentioned, sudden changes might produce negative results. Pole did their extreme geometry in 2016 and it took more or less 5 years for the others to catch up only to turn out it might have been a bit too extreme. And riding changes are one thing, changes in geometry might require changes in riding style, positioning, might require different bars, shorter stems, etc., things that are not available on their own. That's why the changes are gradual because the limits are pushed slowly to see what sticks.

That and hugely different bikes are hard to sell, that's why the big brands never go extreme as it makes it a niche product by definition. 

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Jakub_G
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5/28/2024 1:28am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2024 1:35am
Primoz wrote:
What is the correct damping design? What is the correct geometry?  Like @bulletbass man mentioned, sudden changes might produce negative results. Pole did their extreme geometry...

What is the correct damping design? What is the correct geometry? 

Like @bulletbass man mentioned, sudden changes might produce negative results. Pole did their extreme geometry in 2016 and it took more or less 5 years for the others to catch up only to turn out it might have been a bit too extreme. And riding changes are one thing, changes in geometry might require changes in riding style, positioning, might require different bars, shorter stems, etc., things that are not available on their own. That's why the changes are gradual because the limits are pushed slowly to see what sticks.

That and hugely different bikes are hard to sell, that's why the big brands never go extreme as it makes it a niche product by definition. 

Gradual changes would be ok in these days when we have arrived at somewhat reasonably correct geometry as the norm, this wasn't the case in 2016 when bikes were still way too short, too steep and too tall in the seattube. Riding style matters, obviously,but there is no doubt that correct geometry helps with placing rider in the better position to begin with, just like old school geometry puts you in the"wrong" or at least very inefficient position. Loop out angle and Endo angle are both massively different, which used to mean you have to hide behind the saddle all the time, which was tiring and resulted in less front wheel grip than you have now, short chanstays not helping with this one bit. I think there is no one who could with straight face say modern bikes aren't step in the right direction. People are always stuck in their ways and big brands know that, they also know people care about looks more than anything, so there is no need for them to push for performance, just pick the right word for next model year and roll with it till it's s not cool anymore.

3
4
Fred_Pop
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5/28/2024 2:51am
TannerVal wrote:
    Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar...

 


 

Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar things for moto but they sit inboard on the throttle side to reduce chafing from twisting the grip. Not really sure what these achieve? 
 

My theories are that he either has a hard time not rolling off the end of his bars and this is more of an indicator that lets him know where the edge is, or he’s fighting some kind of injury and this is a kind of hack to make riding easier? Totally clueless and wondering if anyone’s got a better idea.

Probably just there to keep his hands from slipping off in wet conditions.

1
Fred_Pop
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5/28/2024 2:57am
2supple wrote:
I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer...

I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer lighter compression as well.  

Question still stands - how is it that every two years there are updated compression tunes. This applies to RS and the latest Fox Grip X2. Why can't they get it right the first time. 

Fred_Pop wrote:
Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change...

Because they don't know WTF they are doing! It's the same reason bikes get longer by a few mm and slacker by 0.5º every design change. Most brands don't test the limits and thus are just winging it. It's ridiculous. 

Primoz wrote:
What is the correct damping design? What is the correct geometry?  Like @bulletbass man mentioned, sudden changes might produce negative results. Pole did their extreme geometry...

What is the correct damping design? What is the correct geometry? 

Like @bulletbass man mentioned, sudden changes might produce negative results. Pole did their extreme geometry in 2016 and it took more or less 5 years for the others to catch up only to turn out it might have been a bit too extreme. And riding changes are one thing, changes in geometry might require changes in riding style, positioning, might require different bars, shorter stems, etc., things that are not available on their own. That's why the changes are gradual because the limits are pushed slowly to see what sticks.

That and hugely different bikes are hard to sell, that's why the big brands never go extreme as it makes it a niche product by definition. 

Changes are gradual because only a few dare to push the limits and the rest are just sheep. Pole's geometry is the standard pretty much nowadays aside from the frame sizing (their L is still an XL). They and Geometron tested HAs below 63º and then dialed it back. The Specialized Stumpjumper Evo was a mild response to the Geometron as was the Scott Ransom from a few years back.

 

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zscs
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5/28/2024 3:09am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2024 3:15am

Last weekend, not only Tom Pidcock raced a prototype SR Suntour electronic suspension (shock and fork -I haven't found any closer foto yet) but also Titouan Carod, who raced with an electronic Öhlins prototype. Source: https://en.brujulabike.com/titouan-carod-debuts-bmc-fourstroke-01-nove-…

Update, SR Suntour prototype on Tom Pidcock's bike:

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OldManCook
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5/28/2024 4:22am
cprnc wrote:

Have any of you guys heard of a potential light eMTB from Rocky Mountain?

Yes.  Next year.  65nm from what I understand. 

4
dolface
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5/28/2024 6:55am
TannerVal wrote:
    Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar...

 


 

Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar things for moto but they sit inboard on the throttle side to reduce chafing from twisting the grip. Not really sure what these achieve? 
 

My theories are that he either has a hard time not rolling off the end of his bars and this is more of an indicator that lets him know where the edge is, or he’s fighting some kind of injury and this is a kind of hack to make riding easier? Totally clueless and wondering if anyone’s got a better idea.

On a recent podcast (and I can't remember which one) he mentioned that he had some new partners/sponsors w/ "some cool new tech" and that the donut thing was the first one to break cover. He wouldn't go into detail on what it did though...

2
Snfoilhat
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Berkeley, CA US
5/28/2024 8:14am

If I can ask just a moment of everyone's time to speak for the sheep,

There are just not a lot of ways to judge bike or component performance independent of the rider. The discussion already includes some examples of why (e.g. CG) and there are more. That's not to say it couldn't be done; there are research tools out in the world that I think would make child's play of even mtb's thorniest questions about what's really fastest/most stable/most comfortable/etc/etc, which to be fair are pretty thorny, given that rider expectation drives bike outcomes. Rider familiarity drives bike outcomes. To the extent that the next new thing is better than the old, some amount of that better can be masked by it not meeting the tester's expectations. Teasing rider and gear apart takes serious methodological intention and the resources to back up that intention.

But it's uncommon for a mtb magazine or website or vlogger to put their money or industry goodwill toward this kind of work. I'm not aware of any bike company or indy designer or fabricator making anything like it public. It's not part of the business of bikes. It's not part of the business of running a racing team. Using hindsight, even the innovators who appear to have been right or ahead of their time didn't make much of a case for their ideas beyond what everyone else was doing -- hiring pros, giving pro deals to influencers (even if the word hadn't been coined yet), growing grassroots followings. Whatever it is, it's not science. An endless drip of race results and bike tests and shreddits and user testimonials isn't strong evidence of anything, so it's maybe over harsh to judge riders for making decisions with the poorer quality information they have. It's not bad! Smile

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5/28/2024 8:54am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2024 10:25am
TannerVal wrote:
    Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar...

 


 

Not much of a tech rumor but does anyone know what these grip donut things are that Joe Breeden is running? I’ve seen similar things for moto but they sit inboard on the throttle side to reduce chafing from twisting the grip. Not really sure what these achieve? 
 

My theories are that he either has a hard time not rolling off the end of his bars and this is more of an indicator that lets him know where the edge is, or he’s fighting some kind of injury and this is a kind of hack to make riding easier? Totally clueless and wondering if anyone’s got a better idea.

dolface wrote:
On a recent podcast (and I can't remember which one) he mentioned that he had some new partners/sponsors w/ "some cool new tech" and that the...

On a recent podcast (and I can't remember which one) he mentioned that he had some new partners/sponsors w/ "some cool new tech" and that the donut thing was the first one to break cover. He wouldn't go into detail on what it did though...

I feel like it could be for vibration damping

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1
JVP
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Seattle, WA US
5/28/2024 9:44am

Any updated rumors on a mechanical version of Transmission? I thought I'd heard June, but that seemed suspect, at best. Do we even think SRAM is going to go the mechanical route? I sure hope so. 

12
TEAMROBOT
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5/28/2024 9:54am

I feel like it could be for vibration damping

DAMPING

27
dolface
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5/28/2024 10:08am

I feel like it could be for vibration damping

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1
Onawalk
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5/28/2024 10:16am

I feel like it could be for vibration damping

TEAMROBOT wrote:

DAMPING

Maybe its fluid filled....

Imagine a h-bar filled with a magnetorheological fluid, that can be activated by the push of a button to increase/decrease vibration dampening.....cause its fluid filled, so dampener....

 

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1
5/28/2024 10:28am

I feel like it could be for vibration damping

TEAMROBOT wrote:

DAMPING

Onawalk wrote:
Maybe its fluid filled.... Imagine a h-bar filled with a magnetorheological fluid, that can be activated by the push of a button to increase/decrease vibration dampening.....cause...

Maybe its fluid filled....

Imagine a h-bar filled with a magnetorheological fluid, that can be activated by the push of a button to increase/decrease vibration dampening.....cause its fluid filled, so dampener....

 

Edited. Sorry, second language. Still understood what I meant though.

7
Primoz
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5/28/2024 10:35am

Figured it was edited as the exclamation sure felt out of place 😂

3
sethimus
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CH
5/28/2024 11:00am

re sudden changes: i moved to berlin and didn‘t ride a mtb between 2013 and 2018. moved directly from a speci pitch 2011 to a modern giant trance x with 485 reach. felt right at home…

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2
5/28/2024 12:27pm

how can 5 years off the bike have any correlation to a sudden change? I take every winter off and can easily make drastic changes at the start of the season, but no way could i do that mid season.

5
RaggedEdge
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Austin, TX US
5/28/2024 12:56pm

I hope they release a mechanical version of Transmission. Not on the recharge my battery boat. 

9
Evil96
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5/28/2024 1:35pm
RaggedEdge wrote:

I hope they release a mechanical version of Transmission. Not on the recharge my battery boat. 

I hope they don’t,

transmission is the most overhyped product in the market right now

ultra expensive, heavy and slow

the old cable eagle does everything at a fraction of the price and weight

10
13
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
5/28/2024 1:41pm
zscs wrote:
Last weekend, not only Tom Pidcock raced a prototype SR Suntour electronic suspension (shock and fork -I haven't found any closer foto yet) but also Titouan...

Last weekend, not only Tom Pidcock raced a prototype SR Suntour electronic suspension (shock and fork -I haven't found any closer foto yet) but also Titouan Carod, who raced with an electronic Öhlins prototype. Source: https://en.brujulabike.com/titouan-carod-debuts-bmc-fourstroke-01-nove-…

Update, SR Suntour prototype on Tom Pidcock's bike:

I can see that Tom Pidcock is on Berd spokes.

3
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