MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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Primoz 8/23/2022 9:40am
8/23/2022 9:40am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2022 9:46am
The centerlock junk is just XC stuff, longer travel bikes don't really use centerlocks.

On another note, I hope mechanical groups stay even in the higher end. Looking at Bird's new Aether 9 configurator, it's either X01 AXS, GX AXS or GX, there is no mechanical X01. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.
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JVP
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JVP 8/23/2022 9:49am
8/23/2022 9:49am
Noeserd wrote:
That hanger looks like it can break your frame in a crash, looks too sturdy
I think it'll be OK, assuming that outer mount is designed well. It's mounted on the axle so most of the lot of the forces should be going into the axle when you smack it into a rock.

I still think most hangers are too easily bent. I see gobs of them tweaked and it creating a lot of frustration for the average 12 speed rider.

12 speed Eagle is brilliant when set up right, but is hard for a lot of riders to keep dialed. This removes the two most common problems - B bolt and tweaked hanger. Good stuff.
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DubC
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DubC 8/23/2022 10:35am
8/23/2022 10:35am
sspomer wrote:
prototype sram drivetrain at world champs - what do you notice? https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/New-SRAM-Drivetrain-at-World-Champs,13740/Prototype-SRAM-AXS-Drivetrain-at-World-Champs,153824/sspomer,2 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/23/12902/s1200_1faad0c3_0300_415e_bb66_9d2c99c4ab6c.jpg[/img]
prototype sram drivetrain at world champs - what do you notice?
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/New-SRAM-Drivetrain-at-World-C…


Kadester wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/23/12906/s1200_E5FF59F8_3A0A_41F3_ACF4_07A8110DA819.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/23/12905/s1200_4645B7FE_927A_4800_AD83_905EB1E88D53.jpg[/img] Looks like sram now has their own version of centerlock?



Looks like sram now has their own version of centerlock?
That rotor looks crazy thick!~!
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TimBud
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TimBud 8/23/2022 12:09pm
8/23/2022 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2022 12:11pm
Looks to me like Sram have cunningly reused all but the lowest gear on the old 10spd cassettes and bolted on an extra 3. Clever
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jonkranked
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jonkranked 8/23/2022 12:23pm
8/23/2022 12:23pm
Primoz wrote:
The centerlock junk is just XC stuff, longer travel bikes don't really use centerlocks. On another note, I hope mechanical groups stay even in the higher...
The centerlock junk is just XC stuff, longer travel bikes don't really use centerlocks.

On another note, I hope mechanical groups stay even in the higher end. Looking at Bird's new Aether 9 configurator, it's either X01 AXS, GX AXS or GX, there is no mechanical X01. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.
shimano's road groups are Di2 only down to 105 now.
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Primoz
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Primoz 8/23/2022 12:43pm
8/23/2022 12:43pm
I think Sram AND Shimano 12spd road groups are electric only... Only the 11spd stuff is left in mechanical form. That's what scares me.
millsr4
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millsr4 8/23/2022 1:47pm
8/23/2022 1:47pm
JVP wrote:
There's a LOT going on here, and all of it looks good except for the centerlock junk. Looks like smaller gear jumps between the biggest two...
There's a LOT going on here, and all of it looks good except for the centerlock junk.

Looks like smaller gear jumps between the biggest two cogs, which would be a HUGE improvement. Monoblock in the smaller cogs with pinned larger 3 for something costing/weighing between GX and X01.

That new sturdy hanger looks like a win. GX derailleurs are durable except the cheap metal-on-metal B-bolt kills them due to slop developing. No slop with this setup.

Edit after looking through pics:
I take that part about cost/weight between GX and X01 back. It's hanging off a pro xc racer whip, so it's going to be lighter. Current guess is monoblock, then either ti or aluminum on the big 3. Screw durability, the pro xc guys only care about weight.

My dreams of a 10-52 X01 with good spacing are on hold again.
I don't understand why people hate on centerlock rotors or why you would only want them for road/XC... They are heavier, and in turn stiffer, which blows the XC case up. Cost really isn't a valid argument with how much you can spend on a 6 bolt rotor these days if you're so inclined. I've used them for several years now without issue so can someone explain to me why some people hate them so much?

Also as someone already mentioned... that rotor looks craaaaazzzzy thick... it can't just be the picture perspective either.
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gibbon
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gibbon 8/23/2022 2:35pm
8/23/2022 2:35pm
chriskief wrote:
"SRAM T-Type chain only" written on the cassette. Looks similar to the flattop road chain.
I suspect it is just a flat top chain, thereby locking you into full Sram drivetrains (how many people other than me use Sramano I don't know) but really just another step towards drivetrain specific frames. I can see Sram going after BB's next. Ripe for a change.
gibbon
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gibbon 8/23/2022 3:00pm
8/23/2022 3:00pm
Primoz wrote:
The centerlock junk is just XC stuff, longer travel bikes don't really use centerlocks. On another note, I hope mechanical groups stay even in the higher...
The centerlock junk is just XC stuff, longer travel bikes don't really use centerlocks.

On another note, I hope mechanical groups stay even in the higher end. Looking at Bird's new Aether 9 configurator, it's either X01 AXS, GX AXS or GX, there is no mechanical X01. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.
They are absolutely going to make everything above GX electronic only.......because 'progress' and it's done no harm to their road offerings.
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nsp234
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nsp234 8/23/2022 4:06pm
8/23/2022 4:06pm
Kadester wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/23/12906/s1200_E5FF59F8_3A0A_41F3_ACF4_07A8110DA819.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/23/12905/s1200_4645B7FE_927A_4800_AD83_905EB1E88D53.jpg[/img] Looks like sram now has their own version of centerlock?



Looks like sram now has their own version of centerlock?
Oh gawd please don't. The ease of use of a hex key is unmatched. Also no worries with the centerlock not being so locked and coming loose.
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Uncle Cliffy
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Uncle Cliffy 8/23/2022 4:17pm
8/23/2022 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2022 4:25pm
JVP wrote:
There's a LOT going on here, and all of it looks good except for the centerlock junk. Looks like smaller gear jumps between the biggest two...
There's a LOT going on here, and all of it looks good except for the centerlock junk.

Looks like smaller gear jumps between the biggest two cogs, which would be a HUGE improvement. Monoblock in the smaller cogs with pinned larger 3 for something costing/weighing between GX and X01.

That new sturdy hanger looks like a win. GX derailleurs are durable except the cheap metal-on-metal B-bolt kills them due to slop developing. No slop with this setup.

Edit after looking through pics:
I take that part about cost/weight between GX and X01 back. It's hanging off a pro xc racer whip, so it's going to be lighter. Current guess is monoblock, then either ti or aluminum on the big 3. Screw durability, the pro xc guys only care about weight.

My dreams of a 10-52 X01 with good spacing are on hold again.
millsr4 wrote:
I don't understand why people hate on centerlock rotors or why you would only want them for road/XC... They are heavier, and in turn stiffer, which...
I don't understand why people hate on centerlock rotors or why you would only want them for road/XC... They are heavier, and in turn stiffer, which blows the XC case up. Cost really isn't a valid argument with how much you can spend on a 6 bolt rotor these days if you're so inclined. I've used them for several years now without issue so can someone explain to me why some people hate them so much?

Also as someone already mentioned... that rotor looks craaaaazzzzy thick... it can't just be the picture perspective either.
Center lock is fine functionally. Except for maybe some of the older Saint stuff where the rivets would come loose. They never failed but made a lot of noise.

I think it just comes down to standards. 6 bolt is huge and Centerlock isn’t. What are you gonna find at the bike
shop when something goes wrong?

That newer rotor looks like it’s adopting the 2.3 mm thickness like TRP. A stiffer thicker rotor is definitely nice. Rubbing noises are minimized.
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baronKanon 8/23/2022 10:40pm
8/23/2022 10:40pm
millsr4 wrote:
I don't understand why people hate on centerlock rotors or why you would only want them for road/XC... They are heavier, and in turn stiffer, which...
I don't understand why people hate on centerlock rotors or why you would only want them for road/XC... They are heavier, and in turn stiffer, which blows the XC case up. Cost really isn't a valid argument with how much you can spend on a 6 bolt rotor these days if you're so inclined. I've used them for several years now without issue so can someone explain to me why some people hate them so much?

Also as someone already mentioned... that rotor looks craaaaazzzzy thick... it can't just be the picture perspective either.
For workshop use it is fine. For function it is crap. I have never had a centerlock rotor firmly connected to the hub. Not even Shimano-Shimano interface! And for on-trail usability - just no. I think it was Robin Wallner who had his race ruined by a bent centerlock that would not let the wheel spin. 6-bolt could have gotten him to the techzone in a jiffy.
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hitar_potar 8/23/2022 11:17pm
8/23/2022 11:17pm
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to just provide their riders with some O-chains and call it a day? Smile
Primoz
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Primoz 8/23/2022 11:23pm
8/23/2022 11:23pm
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
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noideamtber 8/23/2022 11:45pm
8/23/2022 11:45pm
hitar_potar wrote:
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to...
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to just provide their riders with some O-chains and call it a day? Smile
The O-chain can feel like a very low engagement hub and can feel like you can do a "fall stroke" and go nowhere.

This is why WRP has their new one. Isolates the chain from suspension in both directions with instant engagement on pedal stroke. Except being dumb expensive itll be a standard that Id happily buy. the guy knows his stuff
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Erwan_Ghesquiere 8/24/2022 12:44am
8/24/2022 12:44am
noideamtber wrote:
The O-chain can feel like a very low engagement hub and can feel like you can do a "fall stroke" and go nowhere. This is why...
The O-chain can feel like a very low engagement hub and can feel like you can do a "fall stroke" and go nowhere.

This is why WRP has their new one. Isolates the chain from suspension in both directions with instant engagement on pedal stroke. Except being dumb expensive itll be a standard that Id happily buy. the guy knows his stuff
In fairness having it go both ways is utterly useless. Having my chain running constantly when coasting is not something I'd go for, creates a lot of drag, and a high hazard potential (HXR used to force consumers to use an upper chain guard for safety.). A simpler and hopefully cheaper version that would release the chain tension when having kickback would be great and indeed could free us from idlers.
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hitar_potar 8/24/2022 3:03am
8/24/2022 3:03am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Erwan_Ghesquiere 8/24/2022 3:10am
8/24/2022 3:10am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 3:11am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
hitar_potar wrote:
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
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Primoz
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Primoz 8/24/2022 3:54am
8/24/2022 3:54am
My thoughts exactly, though canyon guys do run the Ochain while sponsored by Sram...
hitar_potar 8/24/2022 5:20am
8/24/2022 5:20am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
hitar_potar wrote:
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a...
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough!
Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so the risk of failure by running one of them doesn’t increase. Anyway, you’re right - Shimano reps won’t be happy. I was just curious whether the Summum really needs an idler or not. Didn’t think for a second that choosing to run an O-chain might fuck up someone’s marketing interests. Smile
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Primoz
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Primoz 8/24/2022 5:31am
8/24/2022 5:31am
If Marketing wasn't a factor in running certain components, I guess there would be a whole lot more prototype (one off) frames and components floating around the WC circuit.
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Sir HC 8/24/2022 6:31am
8/24/2022 6:31am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
XT Crank and Saint Stickers Wink
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Downhill2407 8/24/2022 6:31am
8/24/2022 6:31am
hitar_potar wrote:
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a...
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
hitar_potar wrote:
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough! Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so...
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough!
Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so the risk of failure by running one of them doesn’t increase. Anyway, you’re right - Shimano reps won’t be happy. I was just curious whether the Summum really needs an idler or not. Didn’t think for a second that choosing to run an O-chain might fuck up someone’s marketing interests. Smile
Is there a XT crank with 83mm spindle in 165 lenght?
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carlinojoevideo 8/24/2022 7:44am
8/24/2022 7:44am
hitar_potar wrote:
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to...
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to just provide their riders with some O-chains and call it a day? Smile
That frame has really high pedal kick. I think like over 20 degrees. The max reduction with Ochain is 12degree.
gibbon
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gibbon 8/24/2022 8:47am
8/24/2022 8:47am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 8:49am
Downhill2407 wrote:
Is there a XT crank with 83mm spindle in 165 lenght?
Nope.
Have we decided whether Laurie's 'Saint' cranks are actually the new saint or just Hope Evos with a sticker on?
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MTBrent 8/24/2022 9:07am
8/24/2022 9:07am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 9:09am
gibbon wrote:
Nope.
Have we decided whether Laurie's 'Saint' cranks are actually the new saint or just Hope Evos with a sticker on?
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset?







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