MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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8/24/2022 3:10am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 3:11am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
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Primoz
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8/24/2022 3:54am
My thoughts exactly, though canyon guys do run the Ochain while sponsored by Sram...
8/24/2022 5:20am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a...
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough!
Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so the risk of failure by running one of them doesn’t increase. Anyway, you’re right - Shimano reps won’t be happy. I was just curious whether the Summum really needs an idler or not. Didn’t think for a second that choosing to run an O-chain might fuck up someone’s marketing interests. Smile
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Primoz
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8/24/2022 5:31am
If Marketing wasn't a factor in running certain components, I guess there would be a whole lot more prototype (one off) frames and components floating around the WC circuit.
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Sir HC
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8/24/2022 6:31am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
XT Crank and Saint Stickers Wink
1
8/24/2022 6:31am
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to...
You can’t - you need a crank for direct chainring (or whatever they were called) - something i think a team like Mondraker’s has access to! Wink
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a...
Mondraker is sponsored by Shimano, for DH, do you think they would accept to see the team running something else than Saint cranks, to run a device from a different company, with the additional risk of failure and injury if said athletes were to use a XT crank for DH WC use ? If I was the Shimano marketing guy, that would definitely be a big no no.
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough! Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so...
So are Saints the only DH-worthy Shimano cranks out there? Pretty sure the XT can be enough!
Also, other brands do great stuff as well, so the risk of failure by running one of them doesn’t increase. Anyway, you’re right - Shimano reps won’t be happy. I was just curious whether the Summum really needs an idler or not. Didn’t think for a second that choosing to run an O-chain might fuck up someone’s marketing interests. Smile
Is there a XT crank with 83mm spindle in 165 lenght?
1
8/24/2022 7:44am
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to...
Sooo, any word on those idlers mounted on the Mondrakers? Why do they need them when the Summum isn’t a HP bike? Wasn’t it easier to just provide their riders with some O-chains and call it a day? Smile
That frame has really high pedal kick. I think like over 20 degrees. The max reduction with Ochain is 12degree.
gibbon
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8/24/2022 8:47am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 8:49am
Is there a XT crank with 83mm spindle in 165 lenght?
Nope.
Have we decided whether Laurie's 'Saint' cranks are actually the new saint or just Hope Evos with a sticker on?
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MTBrent
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8/24/2022 9:07am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 9:09am
gibbon wrote:
Nope.
Have we decided whether Laurie's 'Saint' cranks are actually the new saint or just Hope Evos with a sticker on?
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset?







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dolface
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8/24/2022 9:11am
MTBrent wrote:
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/24/12913/s1200_Hope.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/24/12912/s1200_LG.jpg[/img]
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset?







No idea but he's been running those for a long time...
2
Primoz
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8/24/2022 9:20am
@dolface it's 3D printed, I guess it was quick and easy to make it closed off, both the design and the print.
Edthorne
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8/24/2022 10:24am
I have no pictures, but I saw someone riding one of those alloy TR11's in Morzine last week. Unlike what I've seen online so far, this one was a mullet. I couldn't say if it was maybe just a 27.5 frame with a 29 fork or intended to be mullet from the outset.
sspomer
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8/24/2022 10:50am
Edthorne wrote:
I have no pictures, but I saw someone riding one of those alloy TR11's in Morzine last week. Unlike what I've seen online so far, this...
I have no pictures, but I saw someone riding one of those alloy TR11's in Morzine last week. Unlike what I've seen online so far, this one was a mullet. I couldn't say if it was maybe just a 27.5 frame with a 29 fork or intended to be mullet from the outset.
Onawalk
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8/24/2022 11:19am
Primoz wrote:
How do you mount an Ochain to a Saint crank? And you still have the engagement latency the isn't present on the idler variant.
I remember hearing one time (on the road side anyway)that of the 14 or so tour teams that are running Shimano (along with the Shimano logo on their stuff) Shimano only sponsored 6 of them. The other teams were buying them at trade. I would imagine it’s the same with MTB, willing to bet not all teams that run Shimano gear are actually “sponsored” by Shimano.
I’ve been wrong before though.
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Primoz
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8/24/2022 11:27am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 11:35am
Roadies aren't supported by the big three as much as it might seem, yeah. But with MTB you can bet your behind that anyone not running a sponsored drivetrain (6 the rest of the gear) will run different cranks, brakes, suspension, etc., vs. full Sram or Shimano/FOX (or TRP/Shimano). Case in point, Specialized (Magura brakes and Ohlins suspension, taped over drivetrain), Neko (Kogel bearings, cranks, TRP brakes) and so on (don't remember any off the top of my head at the moment).

There isn't as much outside money in MTB as there is in road cycling. The salaries and costs of running a WorldTour team dwarf the costs of buying drivetrains. And the pros are even more picky about their gear than even Minnaar. Look at Froome whining over discs, look at reports that teams were running 11spd or older generation drivetrains because of issues and because of lack of availability (don't remember the details). I think there was a connection with one of the Bahrain Merida sponsors offering a dropper post, but Mohorič chose a different one for technical reasons. Teams have been running competitor gear (for example wheels) when they felt that gave them an advantage even when sponsored by another company.

Road and MTB aren't really comparable in that regard IMO. And with road stuff you can't really mix and match that much as the brake levers and shift levers are a single unit.

As for Laurie, the biggest WTF is him running Hope cranks and a proto rear derailleur that's likely from Shimano. Could it be a custom 160 mm crank or something like that?
2
gibbon
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8/24/2022 12:42pm
Could it be a custom 160 mm crank or something like that?
That would be my guess.
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Edthorne
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8/24/2022 1:17pm
Edthorne wrote:
I have no pictures, but I saw someone riding one of those alloy TR11's in Morzine last week. Unlike what I've seen online so far, this...
I have no pictures, but I saw someone riding one of those alloy TR11's in Morzine last week. Unlike what I've seen online so far, this one was a mullet. I couldn't say if it was maybe just a 27.5 frame with a 29 fork or intended to be mullet from the outset.
sspomer wrote:
was it this? https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-1-Leogang-World-Cup-Downhill,13690/PIT-BITS-1-Leogang-World-Cup-Downhill,152105/sspomer,2 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/2/photos/152105/s1200_Transtions_prototype_for_junior_Valentina_Roa_Sanchez_can_t_say_much_about_it_yet_but_stay_tuned.jpg[/img]
Yup that'd be the one! Guess it's been covered pretty well on here already.
boozed
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8/24/2022 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2022 11:30pm
Primoz wrote:
Roadies aren't supported by the big three as much as it might seem, yeah. But with MTB you can bet your behind that anyone not running...
Roadies aren't supported by the big three as much as it might seem, yeah. But with MTB you can bet your behind that anyone not running a sponsored drivetrain (6 the rest of the gear) will run different cranks, brakes, suspension, etc., vs. full Sram or Shimano/FOX (or TRP/Shimano). Case in point, Specialized (Magura brakes and Ohlins suspension, taped over drivetrain), Neko (Kogel bearings, cranks, TRP brakes) and so on (don't remember any off the top of my head at the moment).

There isn't as much outside money in MTB as there is in road cycling. The salaries and costs of running a WorldTour team dwarf the costs of buying drivetrains. And the pros are even more picky about their gear than even Minnaar. Look at Froome whining over discs, look at reports that teams were running 11spd or older generation drivetrains because of issues and because of lack of availability (don't remember the details). I think there was a connection with one of the Bahrain Merida sponsors offering a dropper post, but Mohorič chose a different one for technical reasons. Teams have been running competitor gear (for example wheels) when they felt that gave them an advantage even when sponsored by another company.

Road and MTB aren't really comparable in that regard IMO. And with road stuff you can't really mix and match that much as the brake levers and shift levers are a single unit.

As for Laurie, the biggest WTF is him running Hope cranks and a proto rear derailleur that's likely from Shimano. Could it be a custom 160 mm crank or something like that?
Some of the pro tour riders even wear non-sponsor kit with the logos covered up, to the point that as a joke Castelli once bundled a black permanent marker with one of its popular black jerseys.
1
8/25/2022 6:49am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2022 6:51am
gibbon wrote:
Nope.
Have we decided whether Laurie's 'Saint' cranks are actually the new saint or just Hope Evos with a sticker on?
MTBrent wrote:
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/24/12913/s1200_Hope.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/24/12912/s1200_LG.jpg[/img]
That is without a doubt a Hope Evo crankset w/ spider. But what does that gain them over a current Saint crankset?







My only good guess is a shorter crank length than 165. Also hope may have better clearance on their 165 and 170 cranks. Pretty sure shimano saint everything is as long as a 175 just drilled different for the pedal connection.
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jonkranked
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8/25/2022 8:22am
My only good guess is a shorter crank length than 165. Also hope may have better clearance on their 165 and 170 cranks. Pretty sure shimano...
My only good guess is a shorter crank length than 165. Also hope may have better clearance on their 165 and 170 cranks. Pretty sure shimano saint everything is as long as a 175 just drilled different for the pedal connection.
i've had saint cranks in multiple lengths over the years, the arms are length specific. saint cranks are made in the same japanese factory as XTR and Duraace.
1
8/25/2022 10:54am
Anyone have shots of the tread pattern for the "prototype" Michelin DH tires on the front of some of the Mondraker bikes from Worlds?
And the rear tire on some of those Mondraker is a Michelin Wild without F/R designation.
David9180
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8/25/2022 2:38pm
Anyone have shots of the tread pattern for the "prototype" Michelin DH tires on the front of some of the Mondraker bikes from Worlds? And the...
Anyone have shots of the tread pattern for the "prototype" Michelin DH tires on the front of some of the Mondraker bikes from Worlds?
And the rear tire on some of those Mondraker is a Michelin Wild without F/R designation.

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PJ205
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8/25/2022 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2022 6:44pm
Tallboy 5? Has Glovebox, different shade of blue than Megatower, not the new Hightower, and has a Float X and Factory 34 without bleeders on it?



8/25/2022 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2022 7:40pm
PJ205 wrote:
Tallboy 5? Has Glovebox, different shade of blue than Megatower, not the new Hightower, and has a Float X and Factory 34 without bleeders on it...
Tallboy 5? Has Glovebox, different shade of blue than Megatower, not the new Hightower, and has a Float X and Factory 34 without bleeders on it?



That or a 5010 (but probably Tallboy)
edit- that's also a DPS, not a Float X
1
Primoz
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8/25/2022 8:59pm
My only good guess is a shorter crank length than 165. Also hope may have better clearance on their 165 and 170 cranks. Pretty sure shimano...
My only good guess is a shorter crank length than 165. Also hope may have better clearance on their 165 and 170 cranks. Pretty sure shimano saint everything is as long as a 175 just drilled different for the pedal connection.
jonkranked wrote:
i've had saint cranks in multiple lengths over the years, the arms are length specific. saint cranks are made in the same japanese factory as XTR...
i've had saint cranks in multiple lengths over the years, the arms are length specific. saint cranks are made in the same japanese factory as XTR and Duraace.
Are you sure about that one? With milling it's easy to play around. With forging that requires separate tools. It's really hard to imagine they would invest in three sets of forging tools (it's not only one tool, it's done in stages) for s fairly low volume product like the Saint.

Unless it's cut at the end after the forging process...
1
8/26/2022 3:11am
Anyone have shots of the tread pattern for the "prototype" Michelin DH tires on the front of some of the Mondraker bikes from Worlds? And the...
Anyone have shots of the tread pattern for the "prototype" Michelin DH tires on the front of some of the Mondraker bikes from Worlds?
And the rear tire on some of those Mondraker is a Michelin Wild without F/R designation.
David9180 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/25/12919/s1200_D5819A4B_B4E7_4BCD_854C_62B42CCC4C65.jpg[/img]

Looks like a mid spike tyre for soft ground?

Shorty equivalent
8/26/2022 4:35am
Primoz wrote:
Are you sure about that one? With milling it's easy to play around. With forging that requires separate tools. It's really hard to imagine they would...
Are you sure about that one? With milling it's easy to play around. With forging that requires separate tools. It's really hard to imagine they would invest in three sets of forging tools (it's not only one tool, it's done in stages) for s fairly low volume product like the Saint.

Unless it's cut at the end after the forging process...
Just trudged down to garage to check this out, I don't have any Saint cranks, but the 170mm and 175mm XT I compared are the same overall length, hole is in a different spot, by 5mm if you can't be arsed with the maths... Laughing
1
Primoz
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8/26/2022 4:58am
That's normal, it's the same for GX, but maaaaaybe it might make sense to chop off 5 mm off on Saints to get some more ground clearance.

That's the only logic I see, machine off the excess after forging for that one single gain.

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