MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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DubC
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DubC 8/16/2022 9:33am
8/16/2022 9:33am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2022 1:31pm
Yea, "aero doesnt matter in DH" ....

but riders have their pajamas custom tailored to basically turn them into skin suits......
the big teams still do wind tunnel testing....
in-too-fast-to-pedal sections fast riders get into their "speed-tuck" position.

But "aero doesn't matter".

No one is claiming multiple second differences with small changes, but it's pretty silly to think that it can't account for fractions of seconds over a 4+ minute track with some wide-open, very fast 60kph sections.
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matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 8/16/2022 11:03am
8/16/2022 11:03am
Back in the day, I was friends with a couple of guys that raced a few World Cups and World Champs representing the US. One of them told me they didn't wear a Skinsuit at the Fort William World Champs but wished he had. He said it was definitely about the straight line speed but he also said the crosswinds at the top of Fort William were so intense that he was getting blown off line, he said he was getting blown over just sanding on the side of the track to look at lines. He also said a few guys that did the first practice in baggies then switched to skinsuits later had to change their braking points because they were coming into sections with so much more speed.
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Aksel_Lfft
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Aksel_Lfft 8/16/2022 1:35pm
8/16/2022 1:35pm
DubC wrote:
Yea, "aero doesnt matter in DH" .... but riders have their pajamas custom tailored to basically turn them into skin suits...... the big teams still do...
Yea, "aero doesnt matter in DH" ....

but riders have their pajamas custom tailored to basically turn them into skin suits......
the big teams still do wind tunnel testing....
in-too-fast-to-pedal sections fast riders get into their "speed-tuck" position.

But "aero doesn't matter".

No one is claiming multiple second differences with small changes, but it's pretty silly to think that it can't account for fractions of seconds over a 4+ minute track with some wide-open, very fast 60kph sections.
No one is saying there is no aero involved in DH. As you pointed out, the speed tuck has proven to be efficient, sometimes even more than pedalling on the same section.
That being said, most aero mods such as covers on the frame, cable routing (internal, through the headset...),... have no or a very limited impact due to so many parameters involved (ground surface, body position, avg speed...). Seems pretty obvious just watching a WC race.
I think overall the body position and thus the overall "profile" you have going through the air has wayyyy more impact than any other tweaks cited here
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Zero Cool
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Zero Cool 8/16/2022 1:40pm
8/16/2022 1:40pm
baronKanon wrote:
Dood. I spoke with a former Norwegian DH champ who participated in the World Championships when skinsuits were still allowed. He put the skinsuit on for...
Dood. I spoke with a former Norwegian DH champ who participated in the World Championships when skinsuits were still allowed. He put the skinsuit on for the race run, only to gain more speed than anticipated and overshot the first jump. Aero is not cool, and Palmer was why it went away. Look at the current racers: snug fitting pants rather than flapping shorts. Same for the tops. They even tuck their jerseys to avoid flapping.

Conclusion: aero matters. But cable routing aero doesn't give enough over such a short course. In road, they speak in seconds gained over an hour of riding...
dolface wrote:
There's an interview w/ Cathro somewhere where he talks about the skin suits they used the first time he was racing WCs and he said they...
There's an interview w/ Cathro somewhere where he talks about the skin suits they used the first time he was racing WCs and he said they estimated it was worth 1 second/minute at Ft. William. He chalked his 10th (I think?) place up there to the aero advantage.
Chris Porter reckoned that Cathro had his best times ever in the skin suits at Fort Bill (I think) but didn’t wear it in the final because he thought he looked silly (pretty sure it was the NSMB podcast).
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Onawalk
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Onawalk 8/16/2022 6:44pm
8/16/2022 6:44pm
All of you going on about aero this and aero that….and no link to this beauty

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Transition-Bikes-Launches-t…

Also, I think we can all agree, aero matters when it comes to the rider, doesn’t mean diddly when it comes to cables, and shock covers, etc. Who figured Loics shock cover was giving him aero gains?
You’ve all tucked hard at a bike park to catch his up to a buddy, and went past, that’s aero positioning kids. But the tangled mess of cables, is not slowing anyone in an mtb race or ride.
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melonhead1145 8/17/2022 1:40am
8/17/2022 1:40am
Yeah, there are very very minimal aero gains to be made on the bike, the largest surface cutting through the air is the rider
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Primoz
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Primoz 8/17/2022 8:26am
8/17/2022 8:26am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w

10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this?

EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later of washing the bike and it sure as hell does not look like a TRP caliper... Could be another bike though. But that 10:20-ish shot shows the same calipers.
DirtyHal
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DirtyHal 8/17/2022 8:42am
8/17/2022 8:42am
Primoz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w 10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this? EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w

10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this?

EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later of washing the bike and it sure as hell does not look like a TRP caliper... Could be another bike though. But that 10:20-ish shot shows the same calipers.
I'm pretty sure Neko mentions this in the last downtime post race podcast. TRP Lever with shimano calipers.
tommi
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tommi 8/17/2022 9:25am
8/17/2022 9:25am
What helmet is Finn Iles actually wearing?

It seems to have a Specialized logo on it



But it is certainly not the Dissident helmet you can buy online.


vs.
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Brevard_Bikewrench 8/17/2022 10:26am
8/17/2022 10:26am
Neko is using a combination of Shimano, TRP, and Cascade components for his brakes. I felt the old TRP with shimano hose/fittings and damn do they feel good!
The specialized helmet is going to be the updated Dissident.
C-LION
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C-LION 8/17/2022 11:58am
8/17/2022 11:58am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2022 12:00pm
Could Specialized using a similar linkage design on their prototype downhill bike? 🤔





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gibbon
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gibbon 8/17/2022 12:36pm
8/17/2022 12:36pm
No.
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Jakub_G
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Jakub_G 8/17/2022 12:37pm
8/17/2022 12:37pm
Primoz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w 10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this? EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w

10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this?

EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later of washing the bike and it sure as hell does not look like a TRP caliper... Could be another bike though. But that 10:20-ish shot shows the same calipers.
He's been running it like that for a while now. Why I don't know, but part a availability seems like a good guess.
bike_futurist 8/17/2022 12:44pm
8/17/2022 12:44pm
How come people are so interested in fullface helmet models? Its like this thread gets 50% of posts about helmets and the rest about all the other parts making up a bike.
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Sven_Claas 8/18/2022 12:41am
8/18/2022 12:41am
Not much of a rumor, but sometimes facts are a nice change of information-supply:

Contra Bikes website just went live:

https://contrabikes.com/
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melonhead1145 8/18/2022 2:08am
8/18/2022 2:08am
tommi wrote:
What helmet is Finn Iles actually wearing? It seems to have a Specialized logo on it [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/2/photos/153488/s1600_Finn.jpg[/img] But it is certainly not the Dissident helmet you...
What helmet is Finn Iles actually wearing?

It seems to have a Specialized logo on it



But it is certainly not the Dissident helmet you can buy online.


vs.
Already been covered a few pages back. Looks like a new Full face, which makes sense since they renewed the rest of their helmet range recently. I imagine it will be released soon
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jofish 8/18/2022 4:20am
8/18/2022 4:20am
bike_futurist wrote:
How come people are so interested in fullface helmet models? Its like this thread gets 50% of posts about helmets and the rest about all the...
How come people are so interested in fullface helmet models? Its like this thread gets 50% of posts about helmets and the rest about all the other parts making up a bike.
There are literally hundreds of bike and component brands but probably less than 10 mainstream fullface helmet manufacturers and I bet every single person on this forum owns one of those 10. Add to that the fact that they don't get updated very often - the Bell Full 9 was released in 2012! I think it's pretty understandable that people get more excited about this than a new seat post collar that got released.

Saying that I think the vital forum members are shit hot at catching new bike and component developments that are actually interesting. I doubt more than a handful of the 271 pages in this thread are helmet related.
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matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 8/18/2022 1:20pm
8/18/2022 1:20pm
Primoz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w 10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this? EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Ar69u3E1w

10:20-ish in, looks like Neko ran Shimano brakes in MSA. Anyone else spotted this?

EDIT: looks like TRP lever, Shimano calipers? There's a shot later of washing the bike and it sure as hell does not look like a TRP caliper... Could be another bike though. But that 10:20-ish shot shows the same calipers.
Jakub_G wrote:
He's been running it like that for a while now. Why I don't know, but part a availability seems like a good guess.
He just posted on Instagram that he's running those Proto Cascade components calipers.
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cameron.hoefer 8/18/2022 4:13pm
8/18/2022 4:13pm
matmattmatthew wrote:
He just posted on Instagram that he's running those Proto Cascade components calipers.
Yeah... so is he running those with TRP levers and Shimano hoses? Super interesting
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melonhead1145 8/19/2022 2:02am
8/19/2022 2:02am
Is this a joke, or does nobody read backwards? The new Bell helmet has been discussed a lot in this thread. Not for sale yet but probably coming soon seeing as it's in the hands of athletes and reviewers. I'd expect a release in the autumn
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Onawalk
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Onawalk 8/19/2022 6:36am
8/19/2022 6:36am
bike_futurist wrote:
How come people are so interested in fullface helmet models? Its like this thread gets 50% of posts about helmets and the rest about all the...
How come people are so interested in fullface helmet models? Its like this thread gets 50% of posts about helmets and the rest about all the other parts making up a bike.
That’s an excellent question, curious as well
1
Uncle Cliffy
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Uncle Cliffy 8/19/2022 11:24am
8/19/2022 11:24am
Onawalk wrote:
Gravel is just 90’s mountain biking,
What was old is new again, someone better get Girvin on the phone immediately.
Laughs in “North Shore Extreme.”
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Losifer
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Losifer 8/19/2022 12:36pm
8/19/2022 12:36pm
Onawalk wrote:
Gravel is just 90’s mountain biking,
What was old is new again, someone better get Girvin on the phone immediately.
Uncle Cliffy wrote:
Laughs in “North Shore Extreme.”
*Laughs even harder in "Pacific Blue"
3
JVP
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JVP 8/19/2022 3:10pm
8/19/2022 3:10pm
@SocalRoost - Fight Club rules apply here
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Erwan_Ghesquiere 8/20/2022 10:36am
8/20/2022 10:36am
jofish wrote:
There are literally hundreds of bike and component brands but probably less than 10 mainstream fullface helmet manufacturers and I bet every single person on this...
There are literally hundreds of bike and component brands but probably less than 10 mainstream fullface helmet manufacturers and I bet every single person on this forum owns one of those 10. Add to that the fact that they don't get updated very often - the Bell Full 9 was released in 2012! I think it's pretty understandable that people get more excited about this than a new seat post collar that got released.

Saying that I think the vital forum members are shit hot at catching new bike and component developments that are actually interesting. I doubt more than a handful of the 271 pages in this thread are helmet related.
There are probably around 10 brands of full face manufacturers, certainly not 10 manufacturer though. All come out of China, from probably 2 or 3 sub-contractors, with margins as fat as it can be considering the premium some of these brands dare charging us for mostly subpar finish and durability.
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jofish 8/20/2022 4:33pm
8/20/2022 4:33pm
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
There are probably around 10 brands of full face manufacturers, certainly not 10 manufacturer though. All come out of China, from probably 2 or 3 sub-contractors...
There are probably around 10 brands of full face manufacturers, certainly not 10 manufacturer though. All come out of China, from probably 2 or 3 sub-contractors, with margins as fat as it can be considering the premium some of these brands dare charging us for mostly subpar finish and durability.
I agree that the finishing on a lot of them is pretty bad and can’t say I have any insight on margins but I think the upfront cash outlay must be sizeable? I’d guess the tooling is fairly complex and they need to do it in a bunch of sizes, testing and certification can’t be cheap plus they probably have to have some good insurance?
Jrp
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Jrp 8/20/2022 7:39pm
8/20/2022 7:39pm
What in the holy high single pivot is this
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